Refill Day winners and losers

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Mar 4, 2010
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Andy barely beat the favourites if you isolate the time he rode by himself. The crucial difference was made when Monfort and D€v€nyn$ were doing 70% of the work. That should tell you something about the chase.

Damiano Machiavelli said:
So what? Testosterone does not give a rider an extra fifty Watts. The real benefits come from blood vector doping and everyone else was doing that. The whole T-Mobile team save one rider went to Freiberg for a refill during the Tour.

Again, look at the frakin power data.
Power data means nothing when you're on your own for 120k over 4 mountains. You're not gonna see a 6.X W/kg climb under those circumstances. How hard is this to understand?
 
Jul 3, 2010
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Damiano Machiavelli said:
So what? Testosterone does not give a rider an extra fifty Watts. The real benefits come from blood vector doping and everyone else was doing that. The whole T-Mobile team save one rider went to Freiberg for a refill during the Tour.

Again, look at the frakin power data.
I'll just finish my Landis rants by stating that I'm not sure anyone really knows what Testosterone gives a cyclist on a hot day in the latter parts of the tour. I doubt there have been many studies done on anything other than critters and they don't ride bikes (and especially not in the tour..no Nozal jokes plz!)

I really hope that neither Schleck tests positive for anything...and the same for the rest of em.

We could use a uncontroversial tour this year, it seems like forever since we've had one.
 
May 23, 2011
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Tyler'sTwin said:
Power data means nothing when you're on your own for 120k over 4 mountains. You're not gonna see a 6.X W/kg climb under those circumstances. How hard is this to understand?
It means everything. It tells you exactly what Floyd did for the stage, and that can be compared to others. The way some of these tools are talking you would think that Floyd averaged soemthing unheard of, like 500 Watts, for five hours. He averaged 281 Watts, 324 while pedaling. Lance, Ullrich, Basso, etc. were capable of doing the same thing.
 
Jul 3, 2010
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i probably am a tool, but I'm also a scientist...but not enough of one to compute the multitude of factors that start to go into the power/weight ratio of a 127k break away over 5 passes and comparing that to todays ride.

I can only go by the "feel" of it's "epicness".

I remember that Landis ride in 2006 and I saw Schleck's ride today....and Andy, you are no Floyd Landis!

Now that IS my final thought on Mr. Landis.

Go Tommy V!
 
Mar 19, 2009
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bigloco said:
i probably am a tool, but I'm also a scientist...but not enough of one to compute the multitude of factors that start to go into the power/weight ratio of a 127k break away over 5 passes and comparing that to todays ride.

I can only go by the "feel" of it's "epicness".

I remember that Landis ride in 2006 and I saw Schleck's ride today....and Andy, you are no Floyd Landis!

Now that IS my final thought on Mr. Landis.

Go Tommy V!
There is trying to win a minute with the help of friends, and there is trying to win back 10, to correct a mistake. Solo.
Landis did no more dope/blood than the 10 guys behind him, no doubt in my mind about that. He was just THAT good. No wonder Bruyneel and Lance wanted him on their team, doing donky work. They know their shyte when it comes to hard riding, and mental focus.
The peloton did look really lazy on Landis' special day. He didn't ride THAT hard, confirmed by SRM. He just did it, and did it well. The intense cooling and drinking he did, did seem to give him an edge. I wish I'd had that much water in my hotter races. I've always found myself rationing my fluids, and I ever raced camelbak plus bottles in my prime, against uniflask competitors plus support crews.

Cycling is cycling. If some people do a crazy hard attack early tomorrow, there will be favorites chosing to sit it out. If one favorite up front has a good day, and manages to conserve some for AdH, that wins the TdF. After such a stage, docs are extra important obviously. I bet even for those who ride clean, it will be quite an affair to get the body prep'd for tomorrow.
 
Aug 1, 2009
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hrotha said:
Wasn't Sastre unable to make up any time to time in the final climb, though?
No, Satsre did the final climb something like 2:00 faster than Landis, but lost it again on the descent to Morzine.

-dB
 
Jul 3, 2010
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Cloxxki said:
There is trying to win a minute with the help of friends, and there is trying to win back 10, to correct a mistake. Solo.
Landis did no more dope/blood than the 10 guys behind him, no doubt in my mind about that. He was just THAT good. No wonder Bruyneel and Lance wanted him on their team, doing donky work. They know their shyte when it comes to hard riding, and mental focus.
The peloton did look really lazy on Landis' special day. He didn't ride THAT hard, confirmed by SRM. He just did it, and did it well. The intense cooling and drinking he did, did seem to give him an edge. I wish I'd had that much water in my hotter races. I've always found myself rationing my fluids, and I ever raced camelbak plus bottles in my prime, against uniflask competitors plus support crews.

Cycling is cycling. If some people do a crazy hard attack early tomorrow, there will be favorites chosing to sit it out. If one favorite up front has a good day, and manages to conserve some for AdH, that wins the TdF. After such a stage, docs are extra important obviously. I bet even for those who ride clean, it will be quite an affair to get the body prep'd for tomorrow.

No disagreement with anything you say save for the highlighted...Landis did test positive with an 11:1 t/e ratio if I'm not mistaken and therefore, most likely, on that particular day, had something the others didn't.

Should AS test positive for anything after this stage, I'll eat crow and genuflect in y'alls direction.

Maybe his (Landis) positive test has increased the "epicness" of the ride in my mind...its tough to remember when it was something I worked quite hard to forget.

I just don't think AS's ride today denotes "pulling a Landis"

Ok, now i'm really done and I'm going out riding.
 
I am confused with this thread, a few days ago Contador was unamioulsy named as the biggest beneficiary of the rest day re-fill by the doping experts on here. He was gonna take minutes out of all his rivals.

You can understand my confusion when he was dropped today looking probably worse than we have ever seen him. But rather than explain why this happened, it has just moved onto Andy being the biggest beneficiary even though he was rubbish two days ago. In the space of two days poor Alberto has been forgotten about.

Can someone please explain why Contador is now so bad whilst Schleck is the opposite and how the blood refills worked in each case? Big Doopie? Bueller? Anyone?
 
May 23, 2011
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pmcg76 said:
I am confused with this thread, a few days ago Contador was unamioulsy named as the biggest beneficiary of the rest day re-fill by the doping experts on here. He was gonna take minutes out of all his rivals.

You can understand my confusion when he was dropped today looking probably worse than we have ever seen him. But rather than explain why this happened, it has just moved onto Andy being the biggest beneficiary even though he was rubbish two days ago. In the space of two days poor Alberto has been forgotten about.

Can someone please explain why Contador is now so bad whilst Schleck is the opposite and how the blood refills worked in each case? Big Doopie? Bueller? Anyone?
I already posted my theory. Contador was faking the knee injury and fatigue from the Giro. The time losses were all part of his master plan. The gradual improvement in his pedaling form was careful bit of acting. He got a blood transfusion on the second rest day, but when he found out that Big Doopie was on to him, he took the blood out and started sucking. It is all pretty simple.
 
We simply extrapolated what we saw in two 2nd category climbs to what we could expect in the high mountains. There are obvious problems with that approach, but it was the only data we had. Duh. It's not a riddle or anything.
 
May 26, 2009
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Actually it's all part of Contador's plan, suck at a GT for the 1st time since his GT debut and get some love from the clinic people instead of hate. Then next year he's back on the gear but no threads in the clinic are opened concerning him because the clinic people love him. :D:D:D
 
hrotha said:
We simply extrapolated what we saw in two 2nd category climbs to what we could expect in the high mountains. There are obvious problems with that approach, but it was the only data we had. Duh. It's not a riddle or anything.
`

Wait!! So what you are saying is that the logic used by the clinic experts to decide who is doping, how they dope and when they dope is in fact complete BS and people are talking through their asses on here:eek:.

No, please tell me its not true, this is the my No 1 source on fininding out who does what and now you are telling me its just BS. What am I supposed to do do now!!!

How will I know when some rider attacks in the Giro if he is doping or not or if someone wins a race, are they juiced? I always had the experts here to rely on but now I dont know where to turn. I need help:rolleyes:
 
Jul 3, 2011
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pmcg76 said:
`


How will I know when some rider attacks in the Giro if he is doping or not or if someone wins a race, are they juiced? I always had the experts here to rely on but now I dont know where to turn. I need help:rolleyes:
You could always try engaging your own brain? Just a thought.....
 
pmcg76 said:
I am confused with this thread, a few days ago Contador was unamioulsy named as the biggest beneficiary of the rest day re-fill by the doping experts on here. He was gonna take minutes out of all his rivals.

You can understand my confusion when he was dropped today looking probably worse than we have ever seen him. But rather than explain why this happened, it has just moved onto Andy being the biggest beneficiary even though he was rubbish two days ago. In the space of two days poor Alberto has been forgotten about.

Can someone please explain why Contador is now so bad whilst Schleck is the opposite and how the blood refills worked in each case? Big Doopie? Bueller? Anyone?
i would say the Giro and his injury are catching up with him. the first day set back did not help his mental focus. down 1:30 on day one .just being caught behind a crash has to get to you, even a little. just not his year.
good on Andy to finally attack, and good tactics with the men up the road.
Alberto's team was not the best for him this tour. his Giro was very cool to watch. too bad about his TDF. go TV!
and as to refills , 'a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do"
"THIS AIN'T NO ICE CREAM SOCIAL!"*
*upcoming film project
 
usedtobefast said:
i would say the Giro and his injury are catching up with him. the first day set back did not help his mental focus. down 1:30 on day one .just being caught behind a crash has to get to you, even a little. just not his year.
good on Andy to finally attack, and good tactics with the men up the road.
Alberto's team was not the best for him this tour. his Giro was very cool to watch. too bad about his TDF. go TV!
But surely a refill negates all those factors, after all a blood refill turns the ordinary into amazing. I mean it worked all those other times for Alberto and was clearly working for two days according to the experts. My question is why did it stop working? I have yet to hear back from the "experts" on this one. Please remember whilst in the clinic, the only factor in any given performance is 'doping'. Period.
 
May 26, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
But surely a refill negates all those factors, after all a blood refill turns the ordinary into amazing. I mean it worked all those other times for Alberto and was clearly working for two days according to the experts. My question is why did it stop working? I have yet to hear back from the "experts" on this one. Please remember whilst in the clinic, the only factor in any given performance is 'doping'. Period.
I think the "experts" are in hiding, due to Contador not following the script, it probably ruined their day when he went out the door with 3km or whenever it was to go. But the "experts" have said they'll comeback maybe tomorrow, if Contador wins the stage and they've also asked me to distract you, so here goes..........look a snowman!!

Edit:Just wondering, if it was Contador who'd went away with 60km left, would this thread have more replies in it/ would there be a few more threads, in the clinic about it?
 
Jul 12, 2010
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BYOP88 said:
I think the "experts" are in hiding, due to Contador not following the script, it probably ruined their day when he went out the door with 3km or whenever it was to go. But the "experts" have said they'll comeback maybe tomorrow, if Contador wins the stage and they've also asked me to distract you, so here goes..........look a snowman!!

Edit:Just wondering, if it was Contador who'd went away with 60km left, would this thread have more replies in it/ would there be a few more threads, in the clinic about it?
If AC pulled the same today and finishes like he could go another 100K, yes the clinic's proverbial hair would be on fire. Did you see AS crack in the final couple of Ks? He was riding as if an off season Jan Ullrich was seated on his bars. Since the dawn of the EPO/blodd doping era, we just don't see those dramatic collapses at the end of stages like we use to.
 
May 26, 2009
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Lajeretta4Ever said:
If AC pulled the same today and finishes like he could go another 100K, yes the clinic's proverbial hair would be on fire. Did you see AS crack in the final couple of Ks? He was riding as if an off season Jan Ullrich was seated on his bars. Since the dawn of the EPO/blodd doping era, we just don't see those dramatic collapses at the end of stages like we use to.
Just because Schleck was collapsing at the end doesn't mean he isn't on the gear, remember Mancebo he always looked funked.
 

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