Refreshing legendary climbs

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
 
Gigs_98 said:
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
Altitude is the main reason Rombo-Rettenbachferner doesn't get used, as a one-way route to 2670m (and beyond) is perhaps pushing their luck in May. Otherwise it would probably be another legendary combo. Add Jaufenpass beforehand for additional fun :)

Maybe Hochsölden could be used as a contingency plan?
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
0
0
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
Altitude is the main reason Rombo-Rettenbachferner doesn't get used, as a one-way route to 2670m (and beyond) is perhaps pushing their luck in May. Otherwise it would probably be another legendary combo. Add Jaufenpass beforehand for additional fun :)

Maybe Hochsölden could be used as a contingency plan?
Add Penser Joch/Passo Pennes from Bolzano before Jaufen and it's even better :)
I don't know why Hochsölden wouldn't be an option, but i fear that the climbs and especially the descents before the final climb that are also at high altitude would be the big problem if we had bad weather. A big MTF at high altitude with snow isn't a big problem, multiple descents on the other hand could be one.
 
Mayomaniac said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
Altitude is the main reason Rombo-Rettenbachferner doesn't get used, as a one-way route to 2670m (and beyond) is perhaps pushing their luck in May. Otherwise it would probably be another legendary combo. Add Jaufenpass beforehand for additional fun :)

Maybe Hochsölden could be used as a contingency plan?
Add Penser Joch/Passo Pennes from Bolzano before Jaufen and it's even better :)
I don't know why Hochsölden wouldn't be an option, but i fear that the climbs and especially the descents before the final climb that are also at high altitude would be the big problem if we had bad weather. A big MTF at high altitude with snow isn't a big problem, multiple descents on the other hand could be one.
the timmelsjoch is about 300 meters lower than the stilfser joch, so the descents shouldn't be a bigger problem than there. However I really forgot about the high altitude which is indeed a problem in may. Oh, and don't underestimate a mtf on 2700 meters (I very much doubt the giro will ever use either the tiefenbachferner or the parking place over the rettenbachferner, simply because I doubt they want to give the highest cima coppi ever to austria) I think that would be in danger too if snow is falling.

ps: you didnt answer my question, do you know any combination which is harder? :D
 
Gigs_98 said:
Mayomaniac said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
Altitude is the main reason Rombo-Rettenbachferner doesn't get used, as a one-way route to 2670m (and beyond) is perhaps pushing their luck in May. Otherwise it would probably be another legendary combo. Add Jaufenpass beforehand for additional fun :)

Maybe Hochsölden could be used as a contingency plan?
Add Penser Joch/Passo Pennes from Bolzano before Jaufen and it's even better :)
I don't know why Hochsölden wouldn't be an option, but i fear that the climbs and especially the descents before the final climb that are also at high altitude would be the big problem if we had bad weather. A big MTF at high altitude with snow isn't a big problem, multiple descents on the other hand could be one.
the timmelsjoch is about 300 meters lower than the stilfser joch, so the descents shouldn't be a bigger problem than there. However I really forgot about the high altitude which is indeed a problem in may. Oh, and don't underestimate a mtf on 2700 meters (I very much doubt the giro will ever use either the tiefenbachferner or the parking place over the rettenbachferner, simply because I doubt they want to give the highest cima coppi ever to austria) I think that would be in danger too if snow is falling.

ps: you didnt answer my question, do you know any combination which is harder? :D
Sometimes the ignorance on these boards disgusts me.

Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden
Tourmalet-Hautacam
Tourmalet-Cauterets

Matter of fact, just anything with the Tourmalet :D
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
0
0
Gigs_98 said:
Mayomaniac said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
Altitude is the main reason Rombo-Rettenbachferner doesn't get used, as a one-way route to 2670m (and beyond) is perhaps pushing their luck in May. Otherwise it would probably be another legendary combo. Add Jaufenpass beforehand for additional fun :)

Maybe Hochsölden could be used as a contingency plan?
Add Penser Joch/Passo Pennes from Bolzano before Jaufen and it's even better :)
I don't know why Hochsölden wouldn't be an option, but i fear that the climbs and especially the descents before the final climb that are also at high altitude would be the big problem if we had bad weather. A big MTF at high altitude with snow isn't a big problem, multiple descents on the other hand could be one.
the timmelsjoch is about 300 meters lower than the stilfser joch, so the descents shouldn't be a bigger problem than there. However I really forgot about the high altitude which is indeed a problem in may. Oh, and don't underestimate a mtf on 2700 meters (I very much doubt the giro will ever use either the tiefenbachferner or the parking place over the rettenbachferner, simply because I doubt they want to give the highest cima coppi ever to austria) I think that would be in danger too if snow is falling.

ps: you didnt answer my question, do you know any combination which is harder? :D
No, I don't think that we ever saw a harder combination of a pass and a MTF in a gt. It's even hard to think about potential combinations that are that hard and have enough space on top of the final climb to host a MTF.
 
gregrowlerson said:
Gigs_98 said:
Mayomaniac said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
I just thought about the rettenbachferner a little and if there is any good reason why the giro has never used my beloved rombo combo (passo del rombo - Rettenbachferner). While figuring out that there is definitely not one single reason, I also noticed that not one single combination of a pass and a mtf which is harder than this one and which has ever been used in a gt comes to my mind. I know that rombo combo also has never been used, but otherwise the answer would be quite easy (Crostis-Zoncolan). So do you guys know anything which is harder?
Altitude is the main reason Rombo-Rettenbachferner doesn't get used, as a one-way route to 2670m (and beyond) is perhaps pushing their luck in May. Otherwise it would probably be another legendary combo. Add Jaufenpass beforehand for additional fun :)

Maybe Hochsölden could be used as a contingency plan?
Add Penser Joch/Passo Pennes from Bolzano before Jaufen and it's even better :)
I don't know why Hochsölden wouldn't be an option, but i fear that the climbs and especially the descents before the final climb that are also at high altitude would be the big problem if we had bad weather. A big MTF at high altitude with snow isn't a big problem, multiple descents on the other hand could be one.
the timmelsjoch is about 300 meters lower than the stilfser joch, so the descents shouldn't be a bigger problem than there. However I really forgot about the high altitude which is indeed a problem in may. Oh, and don't underestimate a mtf on 2700 meters (I very much doubt the giro will ever use either the tiefenbachferner or the parking place over the rettenbachferner, simply because I doubt they want to give the highest cima coppi ever to austria) I think that would be in danger too if snow is falling.

ps: you didnt answer my question, do you know any combination which is harder? :D
Sometimes the ignorance on these boards disgusts me.

Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden
Tourmalet-Hautacam
Tourmalet-Cauterets

Matter of fact, just anything with the Tourmalet :D
You are treading a very thin line, my friend, a very thin line...

Realistically obviously there are few combinations back to back that could compete with Rombo-Rettenbachferner; Gavia-Stelvio if they decided to finish a stage there is perhaps one of the closest. Bonette-Lombarde? They do Isola 2000 as an MTF but that's not quite to the top and there's a good distance of flat. If they did Galibier North - Granon you'd have a competitor, especially if you include Télégraphe as part of the Galibier climb. Grand-Saint-Bernard north - Pila would be another great combo but I think it falls short of Rombo-Rettenbachferner. Obviously Crostis-Zonc we were denied. There's probably some brutal Swiss or Austrian combos we never get to see in racing, of course. Melchboden-Hochfügen springs immediately to mind, but there's lots that can be done with the Zillertaler Höhenstraße. Weinebene East - Großer Speikkogel (although you could only feasibly really climb as far as Hipfelhütte in a race). Spain's probably only got a few that can be even remotely in the ballpark, though Cuchu Puercu Southeast - Angliru is not bad (8km @ 9,5% followed immediately by Angliru). How about San Marco south - Prato Maslino?
 
gregrowlerson said:
Sometimes the ignorance on these boards disgusts me.

Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden
Tourmalet-Hautacam
Tourmalet-Cauterets

Matter of fact, just anything with the Tourmalet :D
Did I write something wrong :confused: :confused:

ps: sorry but all of your three examples are definitely not harder...or was that on purpose ... your post confuses me
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
There are numerous options to use the Granon, but I just don't think the ASO will use it soon. I think the Alp is just too near, so that the aso will always prefer to finish there instead
One thing of note on Alpe d'Huez is that it hasn't been used since 2003 on years when the Alps were in the program before the Pyrenees. While it has been in program every year except 2009 when the Pyrenees were done before the Alps.

So I wouldn't count it out on the year when Alps are the first big mountain region.
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
0
0
Libertine Seguros said:
gregrowlerson said:
Gigs_98 said:

You are treading a very thin line, my friend, a very thin line...

Realistically obviously there are few combinations back to back that could compete with Rombo-Rettenbachferner; Gavia-Stelvio if they decided to finish a stage there is perhaps one of the closest. Bonette-Lombarde? They do Isola 2000 as an MTF but that's not quite to the top and there's a good distance of flat. If they did Galibier North - Granon you'd have a competitor, especially if you include Télégraphe as part of the Galibier climb. Grand-Saint-Bernard north - Pila would be another great combo but I think it falls short of Rombo-Rettenbachferner. Obviously Crostis-Zonc we were denied. There's probably some brutal Swiss or Austrian combos we never get to see in racing, of course. Melchboden-Hochfügen springs immediately to mind, but there's lots that can be done with the Zillertaler Höhenstraße. Weinebene East - Großer Speikkogel (although you could only feasibly really climb as far as Hipfelhütte in a race). Spain's probably only got a few that can be even remotely in the ballpark, though Cuchu Puercu Southeast - Angliru is not bad (8km @ 9,5% followed immediately by Angliru). How about San Marco south - Prato Maslino?
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?p=1793362#p1793362

I really forgot about the Zillertaler Höhenstraße :eek: Yes, that's one of the few combinations that would be hard enough.
You mentioned climbs like Großer Speikkogel and Prato Maslino that aren't very realistic as a MTF, another one of those would be Großglockner from north - Großsee. Monte Bondone - Monte Finochio, a finish at Gelmi del Finochio is probably the most realistic option, would be another one.
 
Re: Re:

Finn84 said:
Gigs_98 said:
There are numerous options to use the Granon, but I just don't think the ASO will use it soon. I think the Alp is just too near, so that the aso will always prefer to finish there instead
One thing of note on Alpe d'Huez is that it hasn't been used since 2003 on years when the Alps were in the program before the Pyrenees. While it has been in program every year except 2009 when the Pyrenees were done before the Alps.

So I wouldn't count it out on the year when Alps are the first big mountain region.
The point is that if the alps come before the pyrenees, I think the ASO wants to use other climbs. Even the aso will notice that it would be lame to make galibier - Alp d Huez and one year later Galibier - Granon, however its ofc more likely to see this climb in a tdf with the alps as the first mountain range. Btw, I think you can't really compare 2009 with the other years with Alp d Huez because it had the Ventoux after the alps.

@Mayo
Melchboden - Hochfügen? Is there any street between these two climbs, which I don't know, because otherwise zirmstadel - hochfügen would be the combination which would make more sense, right? However Hochfügen wouldnt be hard enough to make the combination a real rival of rombo - rettenbachferner. If you simply do zirmstadel - melchboden and a mtf there (which should be possible on the parking place up there) it should be at least on the level of rombo como.
 
Jun 30, 2014
7,060
0
0
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
Finn84 said:
Gigs_98 said:
There are numerous options to use the Granon, but I just don't think the ASO will use it soon. I think the Alp is just too near, so that the aso will always prefer to finish there instead
One thing of note on Alpe d'Huez is that it hasn't been used since 2003 on years when the Alps were in the program before the Pyrenees. While it has been in program every year except 2009 when the Pyrenees were done before the Alps.

So I wouldn't count it out on the year when Alps are the first big mountain region.
The point is that if the alps come before the pyrenees, I think the ASO wants to use other climbs. Even the aso will notice that it would be lame to make galibier - Alp d Huez and one year later Galibier - Granon, however its ofc more likely to see this climb in a tdf with the alps as the first mountain range. Btw, I think you can't really compare 2009 with the other years with Alp d Huez because it had the Ventoux after the alps.

@Mayo
Melchboden - Hochfügen? Is there any street between these two climbs, which I don't know, because otherwise zirmstadel - hochfügen would be the combination which would make more sense, right? However Hochfügen wouldnt be hard enough to make the combination a real rival of rombo - rettenbachferner. If you simply do zirmstadel - melchboden and a mtf there (which should be possible on the parking place up there) it should be at least on the level of rombo como.
Yes, I was thinking about zirmstadl - melchboden, I should have mentioned that.
 
Gigs_98 said:
gregrowlerson said:
Sometimes the ignorance on these boards disgusts me.

Tourmalet-Luz Ardiden
Tourmalet-Hautacam
Tourmalet-Cauterets

Matter of fact, just anything with the Tourmalet :D
Did I write something wrong :confused: :confused:

ps: sorry but all of your three examples are definitely not harder...or was that on purpose ... your post confuses me
Sorry for the confusion mate; it's just my weird Australian sense of humour! I know how much Libertine Seguros adores the Tourmalet, so it was just a good natured shout out to him :)

And yes, those three examples are most definitely not harder!

But I'm only just getting started. I haven't mentioned Arcalis ;)
 
I don't know if it qualifies as "legendary", but the south side of the Col de la Madeleine definitely deserves some more attention.

Big problem for ASO is that there's no big town close to the end of the descent of the north side. Albertville is at 18km, maybe that would do; Moûtiers is big enough to host a stage finish too, but has the disadvantage of being located at the foot of climbs to Courchevel, Méribel and Val Thorens.
 
Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Just some climbs I would like to see in TdF

Col d' Aubisque MTF - Best memory ever in 2007. Spectacular climb which tends to be used way too early on a stage and thus is pretty useless. I wanna see something similar to 2007 with a +200 km stage, going over Larrau. It is possible to go over that from the 'hard' side into Aubisque?

Granon MTF - Learned about it form PCM in a cool variant, going over Madeleine - > Croix de Fer (dno in which order) - > Telegraphe + Galibier - > Granon making it an epic day. Cut one of the first climbs of and its completely doable.

Pailheres - I absolutely love this climb. Is it possible NOT to finish on Ax-3 with it still being in the final? Otherwise, try to spice it up with some climbs in before instead of the approach which has been taken previosuly with the Pailheres-Ax-3 combo.

Madeleine - Do it from the hard side more often in the final. I dont care if its overused or whatever some people say (frankly, I say its not), its an epic climb which can create carnage. Put the Glandon/Croix de Fer in before and finish with a downhill without too much flat.

Chat - Just do this climb. I dont care if its completely flat before. Just do it.
Been lurking around this thread for a while perusing all the peaks; it's great to (try to) take in all of the know how of you guys, incredible information and imagination in equal measure.

I'm still just a 'tour' climbs boy really, so don't have much to contribute, certainly not in discussing obscure climbs.

The Granon has been spoken about on many threads, and yeah, Le Tour probably should go there, but given how long it's been since they have, then they probably won't anytime soon...

I really like Pailheres too. The combo with AX3-Domaines is perfect: hard climb/easier climb with no false flat whatsoever, very rare in France. The Pailheres can be used before the PDB right? Pretty sure they did that in 2007, but there is some false flat, and also PDB is moving very much into the used too much category....

I don't think that Madeleine is overused either and feel that ASO should make much better use of epic descent finishing stages in the Alps.

Gigs, thanks for all of that info on the Finestre, which is incidentally my favourite climb (well except for Verbier, because I've been there :) ), and even harder than I thought, as I thought it was 18kms at 9%. So the toughest climb in cycling just got that little bit tougher....

To see it just a little bit earlier in a stage would be interesting, so some nice proposals there.

LS, epic stage with the Mont Du Chat you've done, and even better with the Bonette. Soooo much altitude on that stage; it's ridiculous! Four climbs at well over 2,000 metres, and 2,700 for Bonette....if this climb can be linked well with numerous others, then just why isn't it used more?? :confused:

I always like your information on climbs, as well as your sound suggestions for not just single stage design, but for grand tour stage design. I think that many of us like the idea of having less MTF's, well I'm in that boat. More MTT's though. I don't see why there can't be at least one of these a year in one of the GT's, and Le Tour hasn't done a true one since 2004. I think that the TDF can use its smaller mountain ranges better too, and seven stages - as was the case this year - in the Pyrenees and Alps is surely too much. Sometimes less is more. I think that two stages in the first mountain range and three in the second is enough. MTF, descent finish; then MTT, MTF, descent finish.

Okay, I'm rambling.

Oh, and back to Arcalis. ASO were on the same wavelength as us LS. They wanted to encourage great racing on that climb, hence the foresight of giving us those following two stages :D

Keep up the great work guys. Novices like me are learning a little :)
 
Re:

roundabout said:
ah, ok. Mortirolo+ Bernina then if the distance between Tovo di Sant'Agata and Tirano is not too long for the purposes of the question
Bernina and Mont-Cenis from their italian sides are fantastic climbs. Unfortunately they both are connected to the passing of a frontier, so not very attractive. And Cenis is diffcult to combine from the italian side.

A comeback of Passo Coe would be great.



This was a 7+ hour festival of riders cracking. ;)
 
Gigs_98 said:
malakassis said:
i miss the great combo of fedaia/pordoi. last time i remember was 2001 with perez cuapio stage, gibo rosa.
I know at least one person who would pray to see this combination back. ;)
Some of the best combinations in world cycling:

Fedaia + Pordoi
Fedaia + Sella
Fedaia + Rifugio Gardeccia
Giau + Fedaia
Valparola + Fedaia
Falzarego + Fedaia
Forcella Staulanza + Fedaia

The top thing I want to see is a Fedaia MTT. Just hours of the scenery on Fedaia and riders pedalling squares on the gradients of the second half. Bliss.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
malakassis said:
i miss the great combo of fedaia/pordoi. last time i remember was 2001 with perez cuapio stage, gibo rosa.
I know at least one person who would pray to see this combination back. ;)
Some of the best combinations in world cycling:

Fedaia + Pordoi
Fedaia + Sella
Fedaia + Rifugio Gardeccia
Giau + Fedaia
Valparola + Fedaia
Falzarego + Fedaia
Forcella Staulanza + Fedaia

The top thing I want to see is a Fedaia MTT. Just hours of the scenery on Fedaia and riders pedalling squares on the gradients of the second half. Bliss.
I really would like to see your reaction when the giro organizers would make a mtf on the pordoi but they use san pellegrino instead of fedaia, before. :D
 
Gigs_98 said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Gigs_98 said:
malakassis said:
i miss the great combo of fedaia/pordoi. last time i remember was 2001 with perez cuapio stage, gibo rosa.
I know at least one person who would pray to see this combination back. ;)
Some of the best combinations in world cycling:

Fedaia + Pordoi
Fedaia + Sella
Fedaia + Rifugio Gardeccia
Giau + Fedaia
Valparola + Fedaia
Falzarego + Fedaia
Forcella Staulanza + Fedaia

The top thing I want to see is a Fedaia MTT. Just hours of the scenery on Fedaia and riders pedalling squares on the gradients of the second half. Bliss.
I really would like to see your reaction when the giro organizers would make a mtf on the pordoi but they use san pellegrino instead of fedaia, before. :D
Probably the same as Sagan winning California.

Anyway, there has to be a way to use Fedaia more than once in a stage. I also want to add that it has the most beautiful name for any climb in the sport
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY