Remco Evenepoel

[Extinction]

Taking the temperature on this thread.

Does anyone on the forum think it's the least bit likely that Evenepoel is clean, that he has never used blood doping? If he is indeed clean, how much better could he be if he started doping? Would he be able to climb faster than peak Pantani if he was on a good post-passport program?

If he is doped on the other hand, is there any reason to think that he uses less than he could, or is it most likely that he has maxed out on dope? For how long is it likely that he has doped?

Personally, I think it's more likely than not that he was doping before his first San Sebastian victory in 2019 and I expect him to use as much as he can get away with.

I think it's fair to say that in sport, generally speaking, the talents get spotted early and then it's a matter of getting on the program. For nobody in their right mind could believe the performances we see are done on "pane e acqua" alone.

Yet the one with the most talent doesn't always prevail. However, when a rider displays great talent early on it's probably an indication that the talent is real.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I agree with you guys. Obviously he's a gifted cyclist but on a good doping program like all those top guys.
However, one can speculate how good responder he actually is. Maybe not as good as guys who were worse than him at a young age (i.e. maybe his natural blood parameters are superior and he would have advantage if all rode paniagua). Then again, it's a speculation and development trajectories can differ (as well as age at which one gets good doping).

 

[zlev11]

Taking the temperature on this thread.

Does anyone on the forum think it's the least bit likely that Evenepoel is clean, that he has never used blood doping? If he is indeed clean, how much better could he be if he started doping? Would he be able to climb faster than peak Pantani if he was on a good post-passport program?

If he is doped on the other hand, is there any reason to think that he uses less than he could, or is it most likely that he has maxed out on dope? For how long is it likely that he has doped?

Personally, I think it's more likely than not that he was doping before his first San Sebastian victory in 2019 and I expect him to use as much as he can get away with.

I think he dabbled but he underwent a really big transformation last summer where I believe he finally just went all in with the full program. he couldn't follow on steep climbs as recently as Pais Vasco last year and then all of a sudden went faster up them than anyone in a decade.

 

[Rackham]

I think he's going to win the Tour de France in the coming years.

Now deduct how many clean riders have won the Tour in its history, then based on the doped riders (or strongly suspected dopers) who've won the TdF, ascertain the odds Remco Evenepoel is 'clean' & riding on bread & water. At his level & watts, people can reach a grown up conclusion.

But I think it's just cycling at this point, i.e. either we accept the show (& laugh when someone is popped despite the fact we know what's really going on), or we quit watching entirely.

I do find it funny there's so many generational talents emerging right now but hey-ho, it at least makes for good tv.

 

[Nick2413]

Taking the temperature on this thread.

Does anyone on the forum think it's the least bit likely that Evenepoel is clean, that he has never used blood doping? If he is indeed clean, how much better could he be if he started doping? Would he be able to climb faster than peak Pantani if he was on a good post-passport program?

If he is doped on the other hand, is there any reason to think that he uses less than he could, or is it most likely that he has maxed out on dope? For how long is it likely that he has doped?

Personally, I think it's more likely than not that he was doping before his first San Sebastian victory in 2019 and I expect him to use as much as he can get away with.

The only questions I have are how the cycle changes throughout the year and how much more is being used now compared to a few years ago.

Not convinced he’s a better climber than peak Pantani though.

 

[houtdffan]

Taking the temperature on this thread.

Does anyone on the forum think it's the least bit likely that Evenepoel is clean, that he has never used blood doping? If he is indeed clean, how much better could he be if he started doping? Would he be able to climb faster than peak Pantani if he was on a good post-passport program?

If he is doped on the other hand, is there any reason to think that he uses less than he could, or is it most likely that he has maxed out on dope? For how long is it likely that he has doped?

Personally, I think it's more likely than not that he was doping before his first San Sebastian victory in 2019 and I expect him to use as much as he can get away with.

None of the top riders are clean. We are racing like it is the 70s, when the only worry was a 10 minute penalty (as long as you do not fundamentally alter the sport like Quintana did last year by taking pain killers. Fighting through pain is a fundamental part of cycling)

 

[topt]

oh come on belgians, where are you guys,.....

 

[Salvarani]

That was a doped up performance.

Basso Aprica levels.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Only 32 pages, LMAO

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Only 32 pages, LMAO

Too obvious, nobody can say anything that‘s not on everyone‘s mind already

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

the thing is, this guy was winning with 10 minutes advantage over his peers when he just quit playing football and stepped on a bike. He might be one of the only ones believable with this level since he was so much ahead of the curve in his youth.

And I know u20 racing usually says nothing, but winning with 10+ minutes does.

 

[logeardaddy]

the thing is, this guy was winning with 10 minutes advantage over his peers when he just quit playing football and stepped on a bike. He might be one of the only ones believable with this level since he was so much ahead of the curve in his youth.

2018 EuroJuniors. The 2nd place rider who finished 10 minutes down was Alexandre Balmer, in the break today for Jayco.

 

[Savant12]

Built up straight from youth.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

To answer the title of the thread, yes, the answer is yes.

 

[Extinction]

Remco is clearly a huge natural talent made better by the pro system, which moved from unregulated to regulated doping.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

the thing is, this guy was winning with 10 minutes advantage over his peers when he just quit playing football and stepped on a bike. He might be one of the only ones believable with this level since he was so much ahead of the curve in his youth.

And I know u20 racing usually says nothing, but winning with 10+ minutes does.

Any discussion inevitably gets caught up on this point. Move past it, everyone in cycling has their narrative or origin story. All that matters is results, and it shouldn't matter whether it's a weird looking english guy who seemingly came from nowhere or a "natural talent" (not a useful category) from the number 1 cycling country producing them.

 

[Nick2413]

the thing is, this guy was winning with 10 minutes advantage over his peers when he just quit playing football and stepped on a bike. He might be one of the only ones believable with this level since he was so much ahead of the curve in his youth.

And I know u20 racing usually says nothing, but winning with 10+ minutes does.

Didn’t he also run a casual 1:10 half marathon around then as well?
I don’t think it’s ever out of the question for someone trying to secure a career in pro sport to be dabbling in PEDs, but that could of course be said about anyone.

 

[Riek s]

Any discussion inevitably gets caught up on this point. Move past it, everyone in cycling has their narrative or origin story. All that matters is results, and it shouldn't matter whether it's a weird looking english guy who seemingly came from nowhere or a "natural talent" (not a useful category) from the number 1 cycling country producing them.

I think it does. Even in an era of doping, we want those with the talent to win and not some random praying mantis on a bike.

 

[Extinction]

I think it does. Even in an era of doping, we want those with the talent to win and not some random praying mantis on a bike.

This, you want someone with real talent, not a super responder on an advanced program without real pedigree, winning.

 

[ppanther92]

I think it does. Even in an era of doping, we want those with the talent to win and not some random praying mantis on a bike.

I guess so. But on the other hand, being dealt with superior anerobic, aerobic, whatever capabilities is actually equally random as being dealt with a body that responds particularly well to the en vogue doping program of a time.

But I agree, I am personally also "lighter" on riders that appear to be natural talent (well, anyway hard to define right).

 

[Berflamand]

Didn’t he also run a casual 1:10 half marathon around then as well?
I don’t think it’s ever out of the question for someone trying to secure a career in pro sport to be dabbling in PEDs, but that could of course be said about anyone.

Yes he did, at age 16, the day after playing a full football match for Anderlecht.

 

[Riek s]

I guess so. But on the other hand, being dealt with superior anerobic, aerobic, whatever capabilities is actually equally random as being dealt with a body that responds particularly well to the en vogue doping program of a time.

But I agree, I am personally also "lighter" on riders that appear to be natural talent (well, anyway hard to define right).

True, talent is random. But when we start,,? With gendoping, cyborg doping what is the value of the sport than,? But yeah With the current doping one could indeed state having a talent for doping response.

 

[Blobs]

This, you want someone with real talent, not a super responder on an advanced program without real pedigree, winning.

The problem is that there's really no way to know who's what.

 

[Extinction]

The problem is that there's really no way to know who's what.

I'd say how good one was from the junior ranks gives an indication, although it's not infallible.

 

[Blobs]

I'd say how good one was from the junior ranks gives an indication, although it's not infallible.

Definitely not infallible. The problem is there is doping there too. Starting doping in your teens shouldn't make you more entitled to it as a pro.