Research on Belief in God

[Zam_Olyas]

why is that rubbish, there are a large percentage of christians who beleive that homosexuality is against everything good and that they will be damned. Your opinion may be that this is not true, but my opinion is that is is.

And yes, read the bible from start to finish by the time i was about 14 (i read more books than you can imagine as a child), and read the book of Mormon after some guys from the church of the latter day saints left me a copy about 15 years ago or so (actually had a very good discussion with them, the mormons are very open to talking to people who dont beleive as their idea is more that you use the bible as a guide to how to live, not as a definative set of instructions). The Koran i started reading an english version many many years ago, but its pretty hard going. I read a bit from time to time. We actually have two bibles in the house despite myself not being christian and my wife being on the fence.

Interesting example. My grandparents are devout christians, go to church regularly, think they are good people, dont watch tv after 8pm becaue of the sex and language, yet when my gf discovered a flatmate was of african descent his only concern was did I have a lock on my door "because you know what those people are like". They cross the road from skinheads or people who look different "because you know what those sort of people are like". My mother in law who is a devout christian, goes to church several times a week, goes on retreats with the church, has shocked both myself and the wife on a couple of occasions with her racism and homophobia.

there are some good lessons in the bible or similar books on which to base your beliefs in life. Treating others as you would wish to be treated, practising kindess etc, but I dont need a church to tell me how to be a good person, and in many ways I feel I am more tolerant than many religions suggest you should be.



just my opinion. Was interesting to see in the british riots the other month when the three young men were killed, the father spoke not of revenge or retribution but of peace. That if it was allah's plan that the men should lose their lives, then that was his plan and they bow to his judgement.

Can you offer any specific examples of how Hinduism and Islam are not peaceful cultures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence

 

[Ferminal]

Previously I would say I'm Agnostic, but these days I do not believe a deity exists. I try not to associate myself with Atheism, it seems like far too much anti-theism rather than no-theism. I respect other people's choice in their beliefs - I will not try and force my views onto others, providing they treat me the same way.

On the other hand I'm strongly opposed to religious institutions.

 

[auscyclefan94]

why is that rubbish, there are a large percentage of christians who beleive that homosexuality is against everything good and that they will be damned. Your opinion may be that this is not true, but my opinion is that is is.

And yes, read the bible from start to finish by the time i was about 14 (i read more books than you can imagine as a child), and read the book of Mormon after some guys from the church of the latter day saints left me a copy about 15 years ago or so (actually had a very good discussion with them, the mormons are very open to talking to people who dont beleive as their idea is more that you use the bible as a guide to how to live, not as a definative set of instructions). The Koran i started reading an english version many many years ago, but its pretty hard going. I read a bit from time to time. We actually have two bibles in the house despite myself not being christian and my wife being on the fence.

Interesting example. My grandparents are devout christians, go to church regularly, think they are good people, dont watch tv after 8pm becaue of the sex and language, yet when my gf discovered a flatmate was of african descent his only concern was did I have a lock on my door "because you know what those people are like". They cross the road from skinheads or people who look different "because you know what those sort of people are like". My mother in law who is a devout christian, goes to church several times a week, goes on retreats with the church, has shocked both myself and the wife on a couple of occasions with her racism and homophobia.

there are some good lessons in the bible or similar books on which to base your beliefs in life. Treating others as you would wish to be treated, practising kindess etc, but I dont need a church to tell me how to be a good person, and in many ways I feel I am more tolerant than many religions suggest you should be.

And as i stated in my post, it was not meant to be a sweeping generelisation. It very much depends if you take what I said literally or if you have the intelligence to read the general purpose and thought behind my post.

on the hiv subject

Exodus 9:2 If you refuse to (obey god and) let them go and continue to hold them back, the hand of the LORD will bring a terrible plague on your livestock in the field--on your horses and donkeys and camels and on your cattle and sheep and goats. But the LORD will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and that of Egypt (the bad people), so that no animal belonging to the Israelites (the good people) will die.' "

Exodus 9:13-16 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, `This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me, or this time I will send the full force of my plagues against you and against your officials and your people, so you may know that there is no one like me in all the earth. For by now I could have stretched out my hand and struck you and your people with a plague that would have wiped you off the earth. But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

Deuteronomy 28:20-22 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him. The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess. The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish.

Thats god, if you do not follow him or his ways he will strike you down with a plague. Many many christians refer to these sections of the bible in reference to HIV. And they believe that HIV was sent by god to punish the sinners.



just my opinion. Was interesting to see in the british riots the other month when the three young men were killed, the father spoke not of revenge or retribution but of peace. That if it was allah's plan that the men should lose their lives, then that was his plan and they bow to his judgement.

Can you offer any specific examples of how Hinduism and Islam are not peaceful cultures.

I have spoken to some former Muslims who have converted to Christianity who say that Islam is a less tolerant or forgiving religion and Christianity is more tolerant and forgiving. Doesn't make them right or wrong. Trying to rank religions in tolerance is moronic. Simply impossible and unrealistic.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Are you denying that there is a large number of Christians in the world who believe homesexuality is a sin and a sinner goes to hell? Also there are Christians that believe the HIV was send from God as a punishment for homosexuality?
I can assure you that they do exist and with significant numbers.

I would say a large number of christians are against homosexuality (whcih is their right to believe in what beliefs their religion has) but I don't think many christians today currently believe that gay/lesbian people go to hell and are sinners for something which is genetically inside them (yes I do believe sexual preference is genetic).

 

[Anonymous]

I would say a large number of christians are against homosexuality (whcih is their right to believe in what beliefs their religion has) but I don't think many christians today currently believe that gay/lesbian people go to hell and are sinners for something which is genetically inside them (yes I do believe sexual preference is genetic).

but isnt that intolerance, and therefore not "christian". Its like christianity preaches tolerance as long as it fits in with your beleifs and is "christian"

Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Leviticus
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"

So homosexual offenders are "wicked" - again, down to interpretation, but many christians use the bibles example as an excuse for intollerance.

Again, while the bible may or may not itself preach hate and intollerance, there are people that interprit the bible in such a way that allows them to preach hate and intollerance.

 

[Nastyy]

Can you offer any specific examples of how Hinduism and Islam are not peaceful cultures.

India and ****stan. In ****stan you can get sentenced to death for blasphemy and in India the BJP party is kinda anti-everything-else-but-hinduism, it's one of the two large parties in India.

 

[Luke Schmid]

but isnt that intolerance, and therefore not "christian". Its like christianity preaches tolerance as long as it fits in with your beleifs and is "christian"

Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So homosexual offenders are "wicked"

I find the idea that Christianity = tolerance to be very strange.

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't believe in God, but I do find religion fascinating especially Christendom and Islam.

 

[Anonymous]

India and ****stan. In ****stan you can get sentenced to death for blasphemy and in India the BJP party is kinda anti-everything-else-but-hinduism, it's one of the two large parties in India.

I dont think they even hold a candle to the reformationists in britain in the 16th century, or the Klu Klux Klan (which was protestant led) in America last century.

interesting wiki page on christian terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

 

[slim charles]

I absolutely don't believe in anything supernatural. I mostly don't care about god and all that can be described as supernatural, but I respect that other people need to believe in something [most of my friends do believe in god]. I do not, however, believe that church has nearly as much respect for other religions or atheists. That hypocrisy annoys me.

 

[El Pistolero]

I find the idea that Christianity = tolerance to be very strange.

You can't believe in One God only and be tolerant at the same time.

 

[daveinzambia]

Previously I would say I'm Agnostic, but these days I do not believe a deity exists. I try not to associate myself with Atheism, it seems like far too much anti-theism rather than no-theism. I respect other people's choice in their beliefs - I will not try and force my views onto others, providing they treat me the same way.

On the other hand I'm strongly opposed to religious institutions.

This.

i am not at all religious, but feel that if religion or belief in a god can help some people in the lives then i can see nothing wrong in that. I have developed a strong opposition however to religious institutions and the damage they have done.

I know that churches have done amazing work to help those in the need but i cannot stand the close minded focus that comes with some religious groups and is used to justify hatred of those that are different.

I moved from the UK to Zambia about 10 years ago and found a very different acceptance of religion. In the Uk if you are in your late 20's and go to church then you are seen as strange. In zambia if you are in your 20's and do not go church you are the strange one. Churches do great work to help with poverty (bit so does the strong family values) but at the same time results in a society where homosexuality is illegal.

finding it a difficult topic to discuss with my son. My wife is fairly religious (but not by Zambian standards) and currently he believes in god. when he asks me what i believe i tell him it is his decision and to just believe what he feels is right. I think when he is a little older i will tell him my beliefs and explain to him why and let him decide

 

[Anonymous]

but feel that if religion or belief in a god can help some people in the lives then i can see nothing wrong in that. I have developed a strong opposition however to religious institutions and the damage they have done.

I know that churches have done amazing work to help those in the need but i cannot stand the close minded focus that comes with some religious groups and is used to justify hatred of those that are different.

My thoughts precisely

 

[sublimit]

I am an athoogerland in that I can assure you there is no Johnny Hoogerland.

There are rumours and sightings that suggest that he did walk the earth in the past.
He was persecuted by an errant journalist, struck by a moving transporting device and hung up on a throne of barbed wire. Seemingly dead was Hoogerland but his spirit is back amongst us and he can be regularly seen riding a 2 wheeled contraption and wearing a cloak of white lycra adorned with red polka dots.

 

[daveinzambia]

I find the idea that Christianity = tolerance to be very strange.

do religions really preach tolerance though. While most religions preach other values such as charity and family the overall image is one of us and them, which i see as the opposite of tolerance

 

[El Pistolero]

I have spoken to some former Muslims who have converted to Christianity who say that Islam is a less tolerant or forgiving religion and Christianity is more tolerant and forgiving. Doesn't make them right or wrong. Trying to rank religions in tolerance is moronic. Simply impossible and unrealistic.

Islam used to be more tolerant than it is now. The Dhimmi for example is a treaty between Muslims and non-Muslims. The non-Muslims could keep their religion and were protected by the state in order of some extra taxes being paid. Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus, etc could keep their religion in the Caliphate as long as they honored the Dhimmi.

Something Europeans never offered to Muslims who lived in Europe, I can assure you that.

Trying to rank religions in tolerance is not unrealistic or impossible. But you must realize it's bound to time. Islamic religion was certainly more tolerant than Christendom during the Middle ages and the Early Modern Era. However to say that the Islam is an intolerant religion down to its very core is pure bull****.

 

[daveinzambia]

That post is again such rubbish. Talk about ridiculous generalisations. I know many Christians and would say the statements you have made are totally absurd and show you as being prejudicial. I am little shocked reading this post from someone like you who I have the up most respect for.

Can I ask did you seriously read those books or are you saying that you read them even though you didn't so your point of view looks more valid? I am seriously starting to wonder this after this post.

The problem is for every christian you know that thinks this is rubbish there are plenty that DO believe homosexuals are evil and muslims are terrorists. Denying this is also close minded. The issue comes when religion is used to justify and validate (and in some countries legalize) these extreme views which would otherwise not be accepted by any part of society

 

[ramjambunath]

India and Pakistan. In Pakistan you can get sentenced to death for blasphemy and in India the BJP party is kinda anti-everything-else-but-hinduism, it's one of the two large parties in India.

Okay, that post isn't true. As an Indian and a close follower of politics, I know that the second half of the statement is false. Every party has made its mistakes and the BJP and the rioters made the most fatal of mistake in 2002. To generalise it to such simplistic terms is dumbing down both the country and around 20% of its electorate. I know a lot of tolerant and secular people who support the party. I purposely avoided posting examples of the negatives in my first post, to avoid offence (for the record 2002 was one of the first on the list).

I hope that users post in more generic and less specific terms, this thread in its current state won't last long.

 

[Bavarianrider]

If there's something like a god. Where does he come from, who created him?
And above all, how can he allow that there are so many ugly girls?

 

[Anonymous]

The problem is for every christian you know that thinks this is rubbish there are plenty that DO believe homosexuals are evil and muslims are terrorists. Denying this is also close minded. The issue comes when religion is used to justify and validate (and in some countries legalize) these extreme views which would otherwise not be accepted by any part of society

This.

Which is what I say about people using religion as a reason for hate and intolerance rather than the religion itself being the cause (although its my belief that it is)

 

[Luke Schmid]

do religions really preach tolerance though. While most religions preach other values such as charity and family the overall image is one of us and them, which i see as the opposite of tolerance

I do not believe the Bible preaches tolerance. I believe it quite clearly states there is right and wrong. Doing what is wrong is condemmed. There are those who try and live the right way and there are those who do not, two groups with two different endings. The message is not a lets accept everybody and whatever they do.

 

[ramjambunath]

If there's something like a god. Where does he come from, who created him?
And above all, how can he allow that there are so many ugly girls?

Bad mood maybe?

 

[Luke Schmid]

This.

Which is what I say about people using religion as a reason for hate and intolerance rather than the religion itself being the cause (although its my belief that it is)

Do you think it is possible to think homosexuality is wrong (a sin) but not hate homosexuals?

 

[Anonymous]

I do not believe the Bible preaches tolerance. I believe it quite clearly states there is right and wrong. Doing what is wrong is condemmed. There are those who try and live the right way and there are those who do not, two groups with two different endings. The message is not a lets accept everybody and whatever they do.

which is one of my issues. I believe that all men and women are equal, regardless of race, religion, sexual preference etc. Christians do not, while some other religions do. And why should someone be welcomed into the "kingdom of heaven" if they have lived a life based on hate and intollerance despite it being in line with "gods words"

 

[Anonymous]

Do you think it is possible to think homosexuality is wrong (a sin) but not hate homosexuals?

I think there are christians that beleive that homosexuals because of their preferences are evil and will be condemmed to damnation.

There are some that preach love and therefore believe it is there role to save them, through god, or abstinence, removing the bad devil from them or sexual re-orientation (some of the methods being showing them pictures of naked men while putting an electric charge through their testicles), there are those that preach hate and beleive that their homosexuality is sympomatic of their inner evil and their souls cannot be saved.

I beleive, each to his (or her) own as long as it isnt hurting anyone.