Research on Belief in God

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Re: Re:

TheGreenMonkey said:
Why didn't god make a lot of people at the same time who are not related.? I don't know
Why did he make animals and plants that can kill man/woman and other animals.?I don't know
Why did he make people uneducated?I don't know
why didn't he make people from the beginning nice?He did
Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
Why didn't he just give every one a nice house and a nice environment to live in from the get go?He did
How did he make that snake talk? I don't know
How did that bush sing? I am not sure what you are refering too sorry
Why does he let people suffer so much yet lets Boris Johnson run London?Free will
How comes only 12 country's are not at war, Why does god seem to like war?Free will
how comes he lets people worship other gods ?Free will
How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
Why did he make the Universe and time and space so big?I don't know but perhaps it does not seem so big to him
why did he wait so long to make earth? He didn't
why did he make the devil? He didn't
where is heaven? I don't know
where is hell? Under the ground
How come jesus said heaven will come to earth but it didn't . He liedJust because something has not happened does not mean it will not happen. He didn't lie
Of course that the patriarchal, all-knowing and omnipitent deity, who is also pure love and infinite mercy, is also starving for veneration, full of vindictiveness and cruelty (if, as you incredibly suggest, illness is "punishment for sin": what kind of god would inflict infants with bone cancer?); makes me understand that either such a being is the complete fabrication of those who worship it (by far the more likely), or else is so vile and depraved as to be unworthy of our attention.
 
Re: Re:

rhubroma said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
Why didn't god make a lot of people at the same time who are not related.? I don't know
Why did he make animals and plants that can kill man/woman and other animals.?I don't know
Why did he make people uneducated?I don't know
why didn't he make people from the beginning nice?He did
Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
Why didn't he just give every one a nice house and a nice environment to live in from the get go?He did
How did he make that snake talk? I don't know
How did that bush sing? I am not sure what you are refering too sorry
Why does he let people suffer so much yet lets Boris Johnson run London?Free will
How comes only 12 country's are not at war, Why does god seem to like war?Free will
how comes he lets people worship other gods ?Free will
How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
Why did he make the Universe and time and space so big?I don't know but perhaps it does not seem so big to him
why did he wait so long to make earth? He didn't
why did he make the devil? He didn't
where is heaven? I don't know
where is hell? Under the ground
How come jesus said heaven will come to earth but it didn't . He liedJust because something has not happened does not mean it will not happen. He didn't lie
Of course that the patriarchal, all-knowing and omnipitent deity, who is also pure love and infinite mercy, is also starving for veneration, full of vindictiveness and cruelty (if, as you incredibly suggest, illness is "punishment for sin": what kind of god would inflict infants with bone cancer?); makes me understand that either such a being is the complete fabrication of those who worship it (by far the more likely), or else is so vile and depraved as to be unworthy of our attention.
Please do not twist my words.
 
Re: Re:

TheGreenMonkey said:
Bustedknuckle said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
Bustedknuckle said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
Tank Engine, according to Luke 3 who was the son of Salmon?
Answer a question for this uneducated luddite..Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel..who were the son(s) wives?
I don't know.
But Adam and Eve..2 sons...where did everybody else come from? Did the son's have kids with Eve??
I do not know who Cain's wife was, but she was not Eve.
Abel is not said to have had a wife.
Adam and Eve had many children including Seth.

I cannot say more than what the Bible says, I was not there, I am not a witness to anything. It would be speculation for me to guess and it would have no basis.
How convenient.
 
Re: Re:

[quote="TheGreenMonkey

Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin

How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
[/quote]

So that little 1 year old, dies of cancer..sinner? That 3 year old that died on the Chinese ferry, sinner?

In a tsunami that kills 200,000 people, they are all sinners?

nutz..
 
If God is almighty, why doesn't he destroy Satan/the devil/all evil?

Why has he created man capable of sinning?

Why punish men for what he has made them capable to do, when he already knew (because he is all knowing) they would sin the way he created them? Why not instead of punishing them, just creating them differently? If he is truly almighty and all-knowing, he is completely responsible for everything that has happened and ever will happen, as he either has made those things happen or made other capable of making those things happen while he knew they would.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re:

Netserk said:
I just don't get why someone who is almighty and all-knowing would create the world as it is. Just doesn't make sense to me.
It is all part of the divine plan... we cannot pretend that we have the capacity of ever fully understanding the divine plan, that would be hybris...
 
Re: Re:

TheGreenMonkey said:
rhubroma said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
Why didn't god make a lot of people at the same time who are not related.? I don't know
Why did he make animals and plants that can kill man/woman and other animals.?I don't know
Why did he make people uneducated?I don't know
why didn't he make people from the beginning nice?He did
Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
Why didn't he just give every one a nice house and a nice environment to live in from the get go?He did
How did he make that snake talk? I don't know
How did that bush sing? I am not sure what you are refering too sorry
Why does he let people suffer so much yet lets Boris Johnson run London?Free will
How comes only 12 country's are not at war, Why does god seem to like war?Free will
how comes he lets people worship other gods ?Free will
How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
Why did he make the Universe and time and space so big?I don't know but perhaps it does not seem so big to him
why did he wait so long to make earth? He didn't
why did he make the devil? He didn't
where is heaven? I don't know
where is hell? Under the ground
How come jesus said heaven will come to earth but it didn't . He liedJust because something has not happened does not mean it will not happen. He didn't lie
Of course that the patriarchal, all-knowing and omnipitent deity, who is also pure love and infinite mercy, is also starving for veneration, full of vindictiveness and cruelty (if, as you incredibly suggest, illness is "punishment for sin": what kind of god would inflict infants with bone cancer?); makes me understand that either such a being is the complete fabrication of those who worship it (by far the more likely), or else is so vile and depraved as to be unworthy of our attention.
Please do not twist my words.
Nothing of the kind. I was simply making a few passing critical observations about what you said:

Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
 
Aug 4, 2011
3,647
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Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
[quote="TheGreenMonkey

Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin

How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
So that little 1 year old, dies of cancer..sinner? That 3 year old that died on the Chinese ferry, sinner?

In a tsunami that kills 200,000 people, they are all sinners?

nutz..[/quote]


Its ok for the god loving folk "Once we die it will all be explained and all that suffering will make sense".
I still can't figure out what god can say to make the suffering justifiable and I have never heard any religious
person explain how god can justify letting those kind of things happen.
Can any god loving person actually explain how god can justify being so cruel?
 
Re: God and Religion

hrotha said:
Jspear said:
red_flanders said:
The first canonical gospels were written 70+ years after the fact (a conservative date by most scholarly accounts) and are borne stories handed down orally for literally generations when you consider lifespan in those times. Others were written much later. Generations of oral history folks. They can't be exactly accurate or even close. So don't hang on too tightly to every word.
Keep in mind though; the gospels were written by Matthew and John, both contemporaries of Jesus, and Mark and Luke, both contemporaries of the apostles. These stories were transcribed by these men. Its not like some anonymous individuals decided to write down some stories they remembered the apostles telling.
We've been over this before. There's zero reason to believe the apostle Matthew wrote the gospel traditionally attributed to him, and not a particularly good reason to attribute the other one to John the apostle.

The four gospels are, in fact, anonymous. Literally, some anonymous individuals decided to write down some stories they remembered the apostles (or more likely, the local Christian communities) telling.
Thank you. There is almost universal acceptance of this amongst biblical scholars. Again, anyone wanting details can easily look this up.
 
Re: Re:

rhubroma said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
rhubroma said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
Why didn't god make a lot of people at the same time who are not related.? I don't know
Why did he make animals and plants that can kill man/woman and other animals.?I don't know
Why did he make people uneducated?I don't know
why didn't he make people from the beginning nice?He did
Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
Why didn't he just give every one a nice house and a nice environment to live in from the get go?He did
How did he make that snake talk? I don't know
How did that bush sing? I am not sure what you are refering too sorry
Why does he let people suffer so much yet lets Boris Johnson run London?Free will
How comes only 12 country's are not at war, Why does god seem to like war?Free will
how comes he lets people worship other gods ?Free will
How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
Why did he make the Universe and time and space so big?I don't know but perhaps it does not seem so big to him
why did he wait so long to make earth? He didn't
why did he make the devil? He didn't
where is heaven? I don't know
where is hell? Under the ground
How come jesus said heaven will come to earth but it didn't . He liedJust because something has not happened does not mean it will not happen. He didn't lie
Of course that the patriarchal, all-knowing and omnipitent deity, who is also pure love and infinite mercy, is also starving for veneration, full of vindictiveness and cruelty (if, as you incredibly suggest, illness is "punishment for sin": what kind of god would inflict infants with bone cancer?); makes me understand that either such a being is the complete fabrication of those who worship it (by far the more likely), or else is so vile and depraved as to be unworthy of our attention.
Please do not twist my words.
Nothing of the kind. I was simply making a few passing critical observations about what you said:

Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
I wrote DEATH is punishment for sin.
You then wrote ILLNESS is "punishment for sin" something I most certainly did not say.
 
Aug 4, 2011
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Re: God and Religion

I'm posting this again, I think there's a case of avoidance going on among the religious posters

Its ok for the god loving folk "Once we die it will all be explained and all that suffering will make sense".
I still can't figure out what god can say to make the suffering justifiable and I have never heard any religious
person explain how god can justify letting those kind of things happen.
Can any god loving person actually explain how god can justify being so cruel?
 
Re: Re:

TheGreenMonkey said:
rhubroma said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
rhubroma said:
TheGreenMonkey said:
Why didn't god make a lot of people at the same time who are not related.? I don't know
Why did he make animals and plants that can kill man/woman and other animals.?I don't know
Why did he make people uneducated?I don't know
why didn't he make people from the beginning nice?He did
Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
Why didn't he just give every one a nice house and a nice environment to live in from the get go?He did
How did he make that snake talk? I don't know
How did that bush sing? I am not sure what you are refering too sorry
Why does he let people suffer so much yet lets Boris Johnson run London?Free will
How comes only 12 country's are not at war, Why does god seem to like war?Free will
how comes he lets people worship other gods ?Free will
How comes he lets the weather kill thousands of people?Death is punishment for sin
Why did he make the Universe and time and space so big?I don't know but perhaps it does not seem so big to him
why did he wait so long to make earth? He didn't
why did he make the devil? He didn't
where is heaven? I don't know
where is hell? Under the ground
How come jesus said heaven will come to earth but it didn't . He liedJust because something has not happened does not mean it will not happen. He didn't lie
Of course that the patriarchal, all-knowing and omnipitent deity, who is also pure love and infinite mercy, is also starving for veneration, full of vindictiveness and cruelty (if, as you incredibly suggest, illness is "punishment for sin": what kind of god would inflict infants with bone cancer?); makes me understand that either such a being is the complete fabrication of those who worship it (by far the more likely), or else is so vile and depraved as to be unworthy of our attention.
Please do not twist my words.
Nothing of the kind. I was simply making a few passing critical observations about what you said:

Why did he make so much nasty illness? Sin
I wrote DEATH is punishment for sin.
You then wrote ILLNESS is "punishment for sin" something I most certainly did not say.
I simply inferred what you meant. Unless you care to explain otherwise.
 
Jul 9, 2009
7,026
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Re: God and Religion

Perhaps God is just a mean nasty son of a *** who enjoys pulling the wings off of insects and burying puppies alive?
 
Re: God and Religion

ray j willings said:
I'm posting this again, I think there's a case of avoidance going on among the religious posters

Its ok for the god loving folk "Once we die it will all be explained and all that suffering will make sense".
I still can't figure out what god can say to make the suffering justifiable and I have never heard any religious
person explain how god can justify letting those kind of things happen.
Can any god loving person actually explain how god can justify being so cruel?
Not avoiding any questions. :)
Sometimes I enjoy coming on here to talk cycling - other times to talk religion. If you want an answer you can find it in previous pages. You and I have had this discussion before.
 
Re: Re:

Christian said:
Netserk said:
I just don't get why someone who is almighty and all-knowing would create the world as it is. Just doesn't make sense to me.
It is all part of the divine plan... we cannot pretend that we have the capacity of ever fully understanding the divine plan, that would be hybris...
Religion always has these invisible (but not really) walls that bounce you back once you are in danger of clashing with the internal logic. "Because we are not meant to know". Bam, back to square one.
 
Re: Re:

Jspear said:
Netserk said:
Could you elaborate on that?
I'll let him elaborate as to what exactly he meant. IMO I think he meant illness is a result of sin not a punishment for sinning.
Though when was a result of sin, not a corrosponding punishment?

When lethal disease is involved to boot, if it is the result of sin (even if a priori - like when involving infants - and thus commited by an ancestral cause), how can that in any way not be construed as its "just" punishment. In other words, how can we separate the cause from its effects in your guys rational way of seeing things? Unless, as someone else inquired, if horrible illness is indeed caused by (original?) sin then how should we regard the onerous outcome, a prize? Though as per my original inquiry, when has sin ever been awarded with a prize according to the Word?

I'll let you guys elaborate as to what you guys exactly mean.

Of course this doesn't exactly square with an all loving deity.
 

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