Response to Lance threads...My Opinion...Where is Pro Cycling headed?

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neil69cyclist said:
If your worried about someone selling false hope Bro you should start a thread on religion, anyone that has had cancer would always tell people that hope is a part of the process and his doping or not doesn't change his survival of serious cancer. My mother has had cancer 3 times (all different types) and her survival and help of others has been around having faith (not religious) in getting better along with whatever treatment.

This sound very harsh but i find it very hard to believe you and think you are using it as another part of your argument......if I'm wrong then i'm sorry.
I am an atheist. Religion is largely a scam--well, other than the peace of mind it brings to some people. Faith and hope have nothing to do with surviving cancer, and neither does will to survive. It is insulting to those who die from it to say that you survived because of will power or a dude in a white beard living in the sky smiled upon you. It implies that those who died were weak or unworthy in the eyes of god.

Survival comes down to how well you respond to treatment. It is random. It is like rolling dice.

FYI, I went through four cycles of chemo and a bunch of surgery. Funny thing is that I was diagnosed with cancer about four months before Armstrong and felt some connection with him because I had followed his career for years. When he clearly doped to win the Tour and began lying about it while holding himself out as a hero to cancer sufferers, I lost all respect for him. He would have been quite rich and famous without perpetrating a fraud on the cancer community. Just like Madoff, whose legitimate business was worth hundreds of millions of dollars, there was no reason for him to do it other than ego.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
And now for a serious post: I'd like to take the time to pimp for a very worthy cause, Parkinson's disease. This one in the name of the most winning American cyclist ever, and one who isn't living a lavish, jet-set lifestyle, or hobnobbing with the rich and famous, or dating pop stars, and is still afflicted by this horrific ailment. Please donate to this worthy cause if you can:

Davis Phinney Foundation.
and on a similar vein geoff thomas is back on the bike again
http://www.geoffthomasfoundation.org/
 
Mar 19, 2009
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neil69cyclist said:
You are right back to the point, I think the biggest problem will be generating sponsorship $'s to pay for the teams and riders, this is partly to do with recession but also to do with the image of the sport as someone that DOES know a lot about sponsorship and brand marketing I can tell you that if things continue as they are we will see the death of the sport as we know it. The major races will survive to a degree but there will be much smaller budgets and this could lead to TV's priority and budget moving away also.
Bingo...But this might take some time to manifest itself. And in many other sports too. Mostly olympic sports that are olympic only on the mainstream.
 
BigBoat said:
Bingo...But this might take some time to manifest itself. And in many other sports too. Mostly olympic sports that are olympic only on the mainstream.
This should be its own thread. It already spread to another thread.

I think a major company would have to be daft to sponsor a cycling team. Even though it is cheap, the potential for scandal is huge.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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BroDeal said:
This should be its own thread. It already spread to another thread.

I think a major company would have to be daft to sponsor a cycling team. Even though it is cheap, the potential for scandal is huge.
Pro Cycling not popular at all in the USA...Thats the Biggy. Is it on another? eh...
 

Dr. Maserati

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BroDeal said:
This should be its own thread. It already spread to another thread.

I think a major company would have to be daft to sponsor a cycling team. Even though it is cheap, the potential for scandal is huge.
Ha- yes, I totally agree! However Highroad did manage to 'sell' the clean team image to Columbia and one of their marketing terms is is that they are investing in youth with no ties to the 'old' system.

While I am not suggesting that Columbia aren't clean - all it takes is for a new sponsor to be embroiled in another scandal and you have the same situation as 2006 when Liberty pulled the plug- and then no amount of marketing could restore cyclings image.
 
May 18, 2009
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my 2cents

Like anything most of the people here have already formed their opinions and there is nothing which you can do to change them.
Also Livetrong might not be the most efficent, but any charity which produces new revenue streams (such as the profit from clothing) which would normally go to a company is not such a bad thing.
In regards to the CEOs getting paid way to much, i think this universal for every company and charity. To get the best you have to pay the most. Obvioously its regrettable that this occurs in charity, but people need to make a living, also the old supply and demand would explain this.

in regards to lance giving people "false hope", this is not necesarily a bad thing, false hope is better then no hope.
 

Dr. Maserati

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I suppose in short what I am saying in reply to the thread title, "Where is Pro Cycling Headed" is that the stakeholders have decided to move on and protray the clean image of cycling, "most tested', "bio-passport" that makes an educated cycling fan weary.

I think it is way to early to do this in Professional Cycling - but the commercial interests cannot wait any longer.

It is way to big a gamble and for that reason I fear for the sport at a professional level.
 
BigBoat said:
Bingo...But this might take some time to manifest itself. And in many other sports too. Mostly olympic sports that are olympic only on the mainstream.
A very good example of this is running and track & field. These were huge in the 1970's into the 80's. Track meets were on TV a lot, it was big. Then, starting I think in 1988 with Ben Johnson testing positive (though he was only one of many doped), the sport started to rot, and a slow downward spiral ensued. The sport got more doped, was on TV less, money supplied in the form of brand sponsors (Adidas, Nike, etc.) started to dry up, and further down it went. It got to the point where you'd have an event where they'd announce the results, and you'd wait a couple weeks to find out who really won because there were so many positive tests. All this while the IOC and USOC failed to seriously focus on doping as the pandemic problem it was, and instead just like Wall Street in the last decade, focused only on money, and testing athletes. Now, the sport has all but dried up, and even when it's in the Olympics it's hardly marquee, and people just assume the majority of them are doped.

Shift all of that a decade and you've got cycling.

As much as I love the sport, and even if I were a billionaire, I'd be very hesitant to sponsor a cycling team on any level.
 
Jun 10, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
A very good example of this is running and track & field. These were huge in the 1970's into the 80's. Track meets were on TV a lot, it was big. Then, starting I think in 1988 with Ben Johnson testing positive (though he was only one of many doped), the sport started to rot, and a slow downward spiral ensued. The sport got more doped, was on TV less, money supplied in the form of brand sponsors (Adidas, Nike, etc.) started to dry up, and further down it went. It got to the point where you'd have an event where they'd announce the results, and you'd wait a couple weeks to find out who really won because there were so many positive tests. All this while the IOC and USOC failed to seriously focus on doping as the pandemic problem it was, and instead just like Wall Street in the last decade, focused only on money, and testing athletes. Now, the sport has all but dried up, and even when it's in the Olympics it's hardly marquee, and people just assume the majority of them are doped.

Shift all of that a decade and you've got cycling.

As much as I love the sport, and even if I were a billionaire, I'd be very hesitant to sponsor a cycling team on any level.
I think the Olympic sports coverage is hugely determined by who your country has competing. Who were the two guys that got all the commercial time before the Olympics and then one of them didn't even qualify? Dave and Dan maybe? Womens gymnastics, Ice Skating both men and women have always been a big draw. I don't think doping has much influence on the coverage.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
I think it is way to early to do this in Professional Cycling - but the commercial interests cannot wait any longer.

It is way to big a gamble and for that reason I fear for the sport at a professional level.
Yup... But you do have to do it and you do have to bring it in... Funny Lance wants to do this again so bad.

The other guys (and Lance) all have 20+ units packed red cells in the freezer somewhere. All it takes is a little mole "rat" and some negative TV/ media coverage of teh event and its over with for all of them. Columbia and the other top teams all have this going on "en' masse". Teams not doing this would not win anything and their riders would never even be able to pull the pack on the flats..let alone finish the mountains stages in the top 50 riders...Staggering.

Cheers, :)
 
Mar 19, 2009
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RightWingNutJob said:
I think the Olympic sports coverage is hugely determined by who your country has competing. Who were the two guys that got all the commercial time before the Olympics and then one of them didn't even qualify? Dave and Dan maybe? Womens gymnastics, Ice Skating both men and women have always been a big draw. I don't think doping has much influence on the coverage.
Yeah... to a lesser degree the fame momentum. Phelps was certainly more popular in the last olympics than he was the first 2 times. Probably half the ratings draw or more was him... but then again the gymnastics is very popular. Yes, doping is not much of an issue so their safe. (the gymnastics not Phelps).
 
RightWingNutJob said:
Who were the two guys that got all the commercial time before the Olympics and then one of them didn't even qualify? Dave and Dan maybe? Womens gymnastics, Ice Skating both men and women have always been a big draw. I don't think doping has much influence on the coverage.
Dan O'Brien and Dave Johnson.

Figure Skating got huge after Tonya and Nancy. Before that it was seen as a sort of artsy event.

Running and Track were big in the US in the 70's to the 80's. Just huge. Now, scandal after scandal has torn the sport to shreds. The US anyway.
 
neil69cyclist said:
Genuinely guys back off from the cancer side of this however entwined this is with LA but don't knock the cancer it is in really bad taste !!!!!!!!
I can't stand your type of false sentimentalism. It's really so tasteless. Lance, not we who have found his megalomania so perverse, has coopted the cnacer community and used them as a grotesque tool for his own vainglory and to cover up his doped career.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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rhubroma said:
I can't stand your type of false sentimentalism. It's really so tasteless. Lance, not we who have found his megalomania so perverse, has coopted the cnacer community and used them as a grotesque tool for his own vainglory and to cover up his doped career.
Rhubroma - I am actually ignoring this comment as the thread was starting to get back on track with something interesting not sad little comments like this.
 
Jun 17, 2009
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BigBoat said:
Bingo...But this might take some time to manifest itself. And in many other sports too. Mostly olympic sports that are olympic only on the mainstream.
I am going to cherish this X
 
Jun 17, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
I think you might cherish this, too. You seem to enjoy a bit of humour.
Spot what is missing after assisted by.....

http://www.astana-cyclingteam.com/
Actually Melo the funniest comment on there is Bruyneel on Dmitriy Muravyev, basically he say he worked hard at being last in the giro but as he is the only Kazakh rider we need to include him !!!
 
Mar 19, 2009
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neil69cyclist said:
Actually Melo the funniest comment on there is Bruyneel on Dmitriy Muravyev, basically he say he worked hard at being last in the giro but as he is the only Kazakh rider we need to include him !!!
Yeah... (Beavis laugh).
 
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Thoughtforfood said:
Sorry, I believe Lance is more about Lance than anything. Funny, the largest single donation I ever saw for cancer was from a anonymous donor. In fact, the greatest percentage of money given to the organization for whom I worked were anonymous donations. I guess some people just do good things because they are good things to do. Some people however need to sell lots of yellow things and give a small percentage of the profit so that they are seen as paragons of virtue.
Yeah....... ;)
 

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