Review on doping within Cycling Australia

[auscyclefan94]

Interesting news that former Supreme Court Judge, James Wood, will be conducting a review of Cycling Australia

http://www.katelundy.com.au/2012/11/07/former-judge-appointed-to-head-cycling-review/

Do you think anything will really be uncovered?

 

[peterst6906]

Interesting news that former Supreme Court Judge, James Wood, will be conducting a review of Cycling Australia

http://www.katelundy.com.au/2012/11/07/former-judge-appointed-to-head-cycling-review/

Do you think anything will really be uncovered?

If the report of the NSW Police Royal Commission is any indication, the inquiry will be very independent and very thorough (even resorting to intimidation and giving people their written testimony to agree to and sign...different times I know).

The telling factor however will be the terms of reference and whether they limit the inquiry in any way.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Interesting news that former Supreme Court Judge, James Wood, will be conducting a review of Cycling Australia

http://www.katelundy.com.au/2012/11/07/former-judge-appointed-to-head-cycling-review/

Do you think anything will really be uncovered?

Ask Krebs Cycle:

For the sake of the country and all of us taxpayers, I think you better write to the Minister for Sport and inform her that OUR tax dollars are being wasted on useless research and that the AIS is using altitude training to hide a massive doping conspiracy.

Wasn't me, honest!

 

[blackcat]

only announce an inquiry when you know the result before you undergo it

 

[Tinman]

I would like to see the terms of reference to explicitly include:

- any Australian citizens (or dual etc nationality citizens), whether rider, team manager, medical staff, or any team member in any paid or voluntary capacity
- any Australian (see above) sponsor executive involved in deciding to sponsor/maintain sponsorship of any Australian rider, team manager, medical staff, or any team member in any paid or voluntary capacity

Lets take out any ambiguity and be clear about what it means to carry an Australian passport. Many Aussies overseas now....

 

[Velodude]

only announce an inquiry when you know the result before you undergo it

Unlike Costigan Royal Commission 1980-84.

 

[blackcat]

Unlike Costigan Royal Commission 1980-84.

is cryptic. Because he lead that inquiry, as you no doubt are implying, are one and same. Think it is absurd to make it about cycling, when it is really about PEDs in professional sport. Touretski is the gateway, not Hodge, not White, not Dajka, not Jamieson, not cycling.

 

[Bicycle tramp]

I can't see it achieving much in 4-6 weeks, especially in the run-up to xmas. No time to investigate anything, so it will be relying on established information. All I can see it doing is reviewing procedures. Hopefully I will be proved wrong, but this smells like an ****-covering exercise, not reform.

 

[blackcat]

Unlike Costigan Royal Commission 1980-84.

One of the speakers at a New Pathways for Procycling conference, James Mazanov phd, spoke to me about AUSADA, and how they take a leaf out of the Don Catlin testing paradigm. We dont wanna catch out heroes. But Justice Wood, if he can take on power like the 80s, I dont think a ragtag virtual peloton will have much push on him. Hodge, perhaps he offers a better insight, but Whitey will keep some in reserve, just like Floyd. Not a full truth, because it neglects comprehensiveness. Ofcourse Wood has an entire career to see thru charlatans I dont doubt.
_____________unhappy the land that has no heroes

 

[blackcat]

I can't see it achieving much in 4-6 weeks, especially in the run-up to xmas. No time to investigate anything, so it will be relying on established information. All I can see it doing is reviewing procedures. Hopefully I will be proved wrong, but this smells like an ****-covering exercise, not reform.

as VeloDude hints, there may be reason to have confidence with Wood's past form. Whether or not he has the correct terms of reference is another matter. They need to pick up that red-head step child rower come lawyer Coates and throw him from a moving train in a chaff bag.

 

[Tinman]

Touretski is the gateway, not Hodge, not White, not Dajka, not Jamieson, not cycling.

Speculation, hearsay, or more? Share?

 

[Bicycle tramp]

as VeloDude hints, there may be reason to have confidence with Wood's past form. Whether or not he has the correct terms of reference is another matter. They need to pick up that red-head step child rower come lawyer Coates and throw him from a moving train in a chaff bag.

I'm sure that Wood has the right attributes, but this isn't a Royal Commission. He won't have much time and I'm guessing he will have no coercive powers.

 

[Tinman]

Interesting side note that John Fahey (now WADA), as NSW Premier, announced James Wood's appointment as Royal Commissioner into the New South Wales Police Force inquiry. Not sure if he formally appointed him then.

So maybe Woods' may not need much time anyhow.

 

[brianf7]

Interesting news that former Supreme Court Judge, James Wood, will be conducting a review of Cycling Australia

http://www.katelundy.com.au/2012/11/07/former-judge-appointed-to-head-cycling-review/

Do you think anything will really be uncovered?

doubt if anything will come of it just more spin.
maybe an excuse for spending cuts but it should include ASADA as well
too many getting trips to europe and other perks. what happened to all the people who used to volaunteer to do them jobs for the love of Cycling.

Cant do too much harm at least the Government are seen to be doing something

 

[Velodude]

is cryptic. Because he lead that inquiry, as you no doubt are implying, are one and same. Think it is absurd to make it about cycling, when it is really about PEDs in professional sport. Touretski is the gateway, not Hodge, not White, not Dajka, not Jamieson, not cycling.

You misconstrued. The Costigan Royal Commission was a severe embarrassment for the conservative government appointors. The outcome was not as expected.

A drubbing of a trade union was expected to be the only outcome. But the terms of reference were wide enough for Costigan to delve into other areas and found criminal activity by the conservative government members and supporters.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Interesting news that former Supreme Court Judge, James Wood, will be conducting a review of Cycling Australia

http://www.katelundy.com.au/2012/11/07/former-judge-appointed-to-head-cycling-review/

Do you think anything will really be uncovered?

Another independent review?
Still, its much better than doing nothing and who knows perhaps UCI's commission can get an idea or two.

 

[blackcat]

You misconstrued. The Costigan Royal Commission was a severe embarrassment for the conservative government appointors. The outcome was not as expected.

A drubbing of a trade union was expected to be the only outcome. But the terms of reference were wide enough for Costigan to delve into other areas and found criminal activity by the conservative government members and supporters.

was barely alive then VD. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[blackcat]

Speculation, hearsay, or more? Share?

well, when AIS is presented with a problem, they just seek to gloss over. Nothing to see here.

Perhaps the most successful clique of AIS athletes ever. The best swimmer ever. Popov was part of the squad. Klim won swimmer of the meet, at Worlds in 98. Then there was the other gold medalist at Oly's, Petria Thomas. We got three Olympic gold medalists in those athletes. Trying to think who else was part of Popov's squad.

If you do the most cursory of research, ie, the peoples research on google, then that gives a hint. I think Scott "I keep a Rosco in my safe too Gennadi" Miller, was also part of the squad.

It is elite sport. It is what it is. You are not supposed to know. Because the entire Olympic artifice cant exist if people knew how they ran the joint

 

[fatsprintking]

In some ways any inquiry only needs to establish a couple of things to be positive in moving forward.

1. The employment of ex pro cyclists in top level adminsitration and coaching in the sport perpetuates a paradigm where doping is accepted as a part of the sport.

2 The current model of development of junior cyclists where there is pressure to leave school at 16 to train full time creates a situation where young people are very vulnerable to resorting to unethical means to maintain progress when the alternative is flipping burgers.


People who come from a background of doing anything to break into the sport and then can only make a living by remaining in the sport are the real problem and Australia is as bad as anywhere else.

Look at how many people in the state development teams have a year 12 education and tell me that that is conducive to having young people make reasoned and informed choices when it comes to drugs.

I remember a quote from Alex Zulle where he said that for him the choice was to take drugs or to go back to being a house painter for the rest of his life - it was an easy choice.

The Australian system produces good cyclists but it is debatable if it produces well rounded human beings in its young males.

The funny thing is that the lack of money in Australian womans cycling means that I would bet my house on the fact that they are as a group much more educated than the males and go on to much more divesrse and interesting careers.

If an inquiry identifies some of these structural problems then it will be worthwhile.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Nice point, fatsprintking. Thanks for reminding us of the grim reality facing these guys.

Makes the drapac-porsche model, where riders are expected to continue developing their career / education while riding, even more productive in the current climate.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

In some ways any inquiry only needs to establish a couple of things to be positive in moving forward.

1. The employment of ex pro cyclists in top level adminsitration and coaching in the sport perpetuates a paradigm where doping is accepted as a part of the sport.

2 The current model of development of junior cyclists where there is pressure to leave school at 16 to train full time creates a situation where young people are very vulnerable to resorting to unethical means to maintain progress when the alternative is flipping burgers.


People who come from a background of doing anything to break into the sport and then can only make a living by remaining in the sport are the real problem and Australia is as bad as anywhere else.

Look at how many people in the state development teams have a year 12 education and tell me that that is conducive to having young people make reasoned and informed choices when it comes to drugs.

I remember a quote from Alex Zulle where he said that for him the choice was to take drugs or to go back to being a house painter for the rest of his life - it was an easy choice.

The Australian system produces good cyclists but it is debatable if it produces well rounded human beings in its young males.

The funny thing is that the lack of money in Australian womans cycling means that I would bet my house on the fact that they are as a group much more educated than the males and go on to much more divesrse and interesting careers.

If an inquiry identifies some of these structural problems then it will be worthwhile.

+1

I work with some riders at this stage outside of the "system", and there is a need for at least some form of good pastoral care*


* not in the religious context, but as often understood in an Aussie/UK context.

 

[fatsprintking]

+1

I work with some riders at this stage outside of the "system", and there is a need for at least some form of good pastoral care*


* not in the religious context, but as often understood in an Aussie/UK context.

That’s right. I work in a school where we are producing some outstanding cyclists, but the pressure they get to throw in school in unbelievable. We are one of the top performing academic schools in Australia and 100% of our kids will go onto university. One of our best cyclists is just starting his VCE and is likely to be in the top one % in the state at year 12. He will most likely become a doctor and he has morons telling him that if he wants to succeed in cycling he needs to think about training full time.
The result of this is that the current system loses some of the best prospects from both a talent and personality point of view because there is no place for them in the current system.
It is also ironic that our town has produced a whole raft of national level juniors, because one guy with a bit of passion but no background in elite cycling got track cycling stated for junior school kids as safe and exciting sport option riding cobbled together bikes. (cheers Roger).
That program has led to over half a dozen state and national titles for juniors, but the transition into the old school development squads does not work for a lot of these kids who want to balance their studies with their riding and maybe even take a year off during their year 12.
Cycling Australia employing someone who focussed on person development rather than just talent identification, would be a good start to developing a meaningful pastoral care program.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

That’s right. I work in a school where we are producing some outstanding cyclists, but the pressure they get to throw in school in unbelievable. We are one of the top performing academic schools in Australia and 100% of our kids will go onto university. One of our best cyclists is just starting his VCE and is likely to be in the top one % in the state at year 12. He will most likely become a doctor and he has morons telling him that if he wants to succeed in cycling he needs to think about training full time.
The result of this is that the current system loses some of the best prospects from both a talent and personality point of view because there is no place for them in the current system.
It is also ironic that our town has produced a whole raft of national level juniors, because one guy with a bit of passion but no background in elite cycling got track cycling stated for junior school kids as safe and exciting sport option riding cobbled together bikes. (cheers Roger).
That program has led to over half a dozen state and national titles for juniors, but the transition into the old school development squads does not work for a lot of these kids who want to balance their studies with their riding and maybe even take a year off during their year 12.
Cycling Australia employing someone who focussed on person development rather than just talent identification, would be a good start to developing a meaningful pastoral care program.

Perhaps a little more like a collegiate system?

Anyway, it's an issue in sharp focus for me as a coach this week, given one young man I work with has made a choice to pursue a path to deal with some of the massive social problems his country faces, and put his full time training / dreams of becoming pro on hold for a bit.

In an irony, he has already been displaced of opportunity several times due to the prevalence of doping and other forms of selection corruption in his location. He's quite talented and a great work ethic, intelligent and has good personal values. I fully support him, as much as I'd like another trip to the world champs, he has bigger fish to fry than becoming a Pro.

 

[fatsprintking]

I think that the answer is to develop a relationship with some schools where you have a cycling scholership program, where there is a focus on developing a duel pathway for the students.

This will involve coaches working with the schools to reach some compromises with training programs and races, but this would be easy. The schools would be able to take a role in developing plans beyond cycling in conjunction with CA.

What we should be avoiding is having 16 year olds living out their Phillipo Pozzato fantasies by training a couple of hours and then spending the rest of the day trying to pick up the waitress at the local cafe. It is the attempt to live like a pro cyclist when they are not that leads to the idea that "taking drugs is just what you have to do." Kids at school are surrounded by people who send the message that cheating is a bad thing. Kids that just ride their bike and drink coffee don't get the same negative message.

 

[Velodude]

+1

I work with some riders at this stage outside of the "system", and there is a need for at least some form of good pastoral care*


* not in the religious context, but as often understood in an Aussie/UK context.

Pastoral care = put out to pasture?