Riccò hospitalized for possible kidney ailment

[131313]

I'm not aware that kidney failure is a side effect of EPO. On the contrary, EPO is indicated for people with kidney failure, because EPO is produced by the kidneys. People with kidney failure frequently suffer from anemia.

erythropoeisis stimulating agents have a host of potential side effects; impaired kidney function is certainly among them. It's not discussed that much because most people taking the drug are doing so because, well, their kidney function is impaired, and because there are other more serious side effects, like increased mortality rates...

These drugs are designed for short-term interventions, not long-term therapeutic use. For athletes using them, the side effects are unknown.

 

[D-Queued]

erythropoeisis stimulating agents have a host of potential side effects; impaired kidney function is certainly among them. It's not discussed that much because most people taking the drug are doing so because, well, their kidney function is impaired, and because there are other more serious side effects, like increased mortality rates...

These drugs are designed for short-term interventions, not long-term therapeutic use. For athletes using them, the side effects are unknown.

I think the side effects are well known.

How about a string of TdF victories? Also, appears to go hand in hand with habitual lying. Unlike other pharmaceuticals, it also affects those around you and can cause an entire sporting organization to look the other way.

Dave.

 

[Fester]

One of the drawbacks (and why the whole quack supplement industry should be banned) of "creatine" is that it isn't easily cleared by the kidneys as the molecule is large. Some people do not clear it very well at all.

I had a friend with kidney failure, who was on dialysis three times a week. He had huge levels of creatinine in the blood. And other regulars at the dialysis centre included some former rugby players as well as old people and diabetics.

Now merely doing a strenuous ride raises creatinine above the normal parameters, I would presume supplementing heavily with it would just aggravate the load on the kidneys.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9683235?dopt=Abstract

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe he has naturally low kidney function?

this would be the second time he's had kidney failure... the first was when he was fourteen.

 

[CowboyTx]

Good luck to Ricco with his recovery, I hope it goes well for him.
All this talk of kidney problems, was this something Indurain suffered from as well? I'm sure I read that in multiple places but can't find any sources.

 

[Merckx index]

erythropoeisis stimulating agents have a host of potential side effects; impaired kidney function is certainly among them. It's not discussed that much because most people taking the drug are doing so because, well, their kidney function is impaired, and because there are other more serious side effects, like increased mortality rates...

These drugs are designed for short-term interventions, not long-term therapeutic use. For athletes using them, the side effects are unknown.

Can you provide a link? I just glanced through a long review article on EPO, and there was no mention of adverse effects on kidneys. I also have seen little mention in the literature of increased mortality rates. The main problem is with cancer patients, as there is some evidence that EPO may aggravate some cancers. EPO actually has a host of benefits on multiple different organs and tissues. Currently,there are literally dozens of trials being carried out to determine the extent of these effects.

It is not true that EPO is designed only for short-term interventions. Since the effect of a single EPO dose is short-term, the drug must be used constantly in patients with renal failure. I just looked at a study in which patients were given the drug weekly for two years. No or very few problems.

 

[veganrob]

Allow me to be a terrible, cynical ******* for a minute. Since EPO is used to treat anemia in patients with kidney failure, would it be possible to be using this as an excuse to be doing EPO cycle and get away with OOC test?
Just sayin'. This is the clinic.

Hope this is not the case though and Ricco will be healthy.

 

[FKLance]

Firstly that would mean that it was necessary for him to have been tested while he has had the cause of the fever (As of yet the only thing that I found to have been coinfirmed was fever, so as of yet I will presume this is the case or that no more information is known), something which probably had not happened.

Also if he is in dialysis now, why would the team hold that back and hide it? What possible benefit would they have?

Well, if I think of kidney problems for athletes, I think doping, although maybe I've just heard too many bodybuilders have problems with their kidneys and liver.. If I were Ricco, I might downplay it as he has suffered a lot in the eyes of the public..

But then, I'm not an expert on any of this, and obviously I hope it's nothing serious!

 

[kurtinsc]

I can't really believe this is even being discussed in the main forum. When a like-long user of blood boosting products and methods develops issues with his kidneys before he's 30, there's no way to rationally discuss this without mentioning the "D" word.

You mean diabetes? Drinking?


I think it probably is doping related... but there are other causes of kidney failure. While we all know he doped, the cause could have been unrelated to that doping. Heat exhuastian or kidney stones can lead to renal failure too, as well as a crap load of obscure and non-obscure diseases.

 

[jimmypop]

Folks, this is one of the things that I firmly believe we've got to fix in sport---the perceived need to dope at all costs, because the consequences of abuse are severe and well-documented.

I'm so confused; Lance told me you were just a jaded, jobless Satanist?

What's your angle, baby-eater?!

 

[rhubroma]

Allow me to be a terrible, cynical ******* for a minute. Since EPO is used to treat anemia in patients with kidney failure, would it be possible to be using this as an excuse to be doing EPO cycle and get away with OOC test?
Just sayin'. This is the clinic.

Hope this is not the case though and Ricco will be healthy.

Now that is cynical.

However, it was a question which demanded to be asked. At the same time, though, if his case really is very serious, then this would prove that that's got nothing to do with it. Because if it is severe kidney failure, then his cycling career is likely kaput.

 

[hrotha]

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-02-2011/ricco-nottata-tranquilla-8084685384.shtml

Secondo la testimonianza del medico, il corridore modenese versava in stato di choc e ha riferito, "in presenza della moglie" (in realta' la fidanzata Vania Rossi) di "aver fatto da solo una autotrasfusione di sangue che si era procurato e conservava nel frigo di casa da 25 giorni", temendo "per la cattiva conservazione del sangue che si era rimmesso".

Not looking good for Riccò. Nor for the doctor who talked about it, for that matter (although I'm not familiar with the Italian laws regarding doctor-patient confidentiality).

 

[Orinda8]

There are multiple causes of renal failure but the info in the article referenced in a previous post mentioned that he had a fever (38 deg C) and abdominal pain so it is unlikely that epo is the cause of the problem;many infectious diseases result in renal failure, it is also possible that he had gastroenteritis and tried to continue cycling leading to dehydration and muscle breakdown (rhabdomyolysis) which then leads to acute renal failure;a definite reason to never try to race when you are ill. As mentioned in prior posts, epo is not a known cause of acute renal failure unless the bottle was contaminated or he had an allergic reaction to the drug but none of this fits the clinical picture of fever and abdominal pain.

 

[BotanyBay]

Maybe he has naturally low kidney function?

Did you know that natural EPO is produced... tada... in the kidneys?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-02-2011/ricco-nottata-tranquilla-8084685384.shtml

Not looking good for Riccò. Nor for the doctor who talked about it, for that matter (although I'm not familiar with the Italian laws regarding doctor-patient confidentiality).

If such a transfusion is illegal, the doctor may be required to report it to the police.

Susan

 

[Orinda8]

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-02-2011/ricco-nottata-tranquilla-8084685384.shtml

Not looking good for Riccò. Nor for the doctor who talked about it, for that matter (although I'm not familiar with the Italian laws regarding doctor-patient confidentiality).

another cause of acute renal failure is transfusion reactions if he mixed his blood up with another rider's blood,this can cause fever but that usually would happen during the transfusion or a few minutes after.

 

[rhubroma]

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/08-02-2011/ricco-nottata-tranquilla-8084685384.shtml

Not looking good for Riccò. Nor for the doctor who talked about it, for that matter (although I'm not familiar with the Italian laws regarding doctor-patient confidentiality).

I had actually suspected this, though due to a sense of decorum and out of respect for a man in hospital, I refrained from stating it on this thread.

But, mamma mia! If true, this just takes the cake.

 

[ulrikmm]

Hope he recovers quickly and doesn't suffer another episode of "apparent kidney failure" - after all, you only have one reserve unit.



Agreed (that he deserves to be treated like a human, with dignity and respect - more so when he's ill and dependent on others for care).



Oh to be able to know exactly to what degree ANY environmental factor contributed to the development of ANY condition...

Sorry, but if you have kidney failure from medical reasons, both kidneys are failing. No backup.

 

[ulrikmm]

erythropoeisis stimulating agents have a host of potential side effects; impaired kidney function is certainly among them. It's not discussed that much because most people taking the drug are doing so because, well, their kidney function is impaired, and because there are other more serious side effects, like increased mortality rates...

These drugs are designed for short-term interventions, not long-term therapeutic use. For athletes using them, the side effects are unknown.

EPO is for long term treatment of anaemia caused by kidney failure.

 

[BotanyBay]

One of the things modern medicine understands the least is the endocrine system. The chemical messengers (hormones) in the body. We've only recently discovered its existence yet we go about like we've completely mastered it. But we're not learning that we've barely cracked the surface of how the body uses chemical messengers.

One thing that I know is that when humans begin taking hormones abusively, the body quickly recognizes the presence of the raised levels, and in an attempt at reducing those levels, often ceases to produce the naturally occurring compound. In the case of EPO, that would mean the kidneys stop producing the EPO that they'd usually make.

Case in point: Marco Pantani. The man was in the hospital awaiting surgery on his leg after a very nasty crash. They were prepping him for surgery and found a staggering 'crit level (60%+). So they decided to wait for the level to come back down again. The next time they checked it (a day or two later), they saw that it had crashed into the low 30's. He was near death. Only at this point did they think to ask him "Have you been abusing EPO?"... It was the only logical answer. No one that wasn't abusing EPO could produce 60% one day and 30% the next. And in Marco's case, it was because his kidneys became screwed-up in regards to producing natural EPO.

We really have no idea what we're doing to our bodies long-term if we're messing with the chemical messengers in our bodies in this way.

 

[ulrikmm]

One of the drawbacks (and why the whole quack supplement industry should be banned) of "creatine" is that it isn't easily cleared by the kidneys as the molecule is large. Some people do not clear it very well at all.

I had a friend with kidney failure, who was on dialysis three times a week. He had huge levels of creatinine in the blood. And other regulars at the dialysis centre included some former rugby players as well as old people and diabetics.

Now merely doing a strenuous ride raises creatinine above the normal parameters, I would presume supplementing heavily with it would just aggravate the load on the kidneys.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9683235?dopt=Abstract

Creatinin and creatin are separate molecules. The first is a normal waste product and is excreted from the blood actively by the functioning kidney. The latter is a intracellular molecule involved in intracellular energetics. Creatin is a non steroid anabolic, and can cause liver and kidney failure, and increases body weight.

 

[ulrikmm]

One of the things modern medicine understands the least is the endocrine system. The chemical messengers (hormones) in the body. We've only recently discovered its existence yet we go about like we've completely mastered it. But we're not learning that we've barely cracked the surface of how the body uses chemical messengers.

One thing that I know is that when humans begin taking hormones abusively, the body quickly recognizes the presence of the raised levels, and in an attempt at reducing those levels, often ceases to produce the naturally occurring compound. In the case of EPO, that would mean the kidneys stop producing the EPO that they'd usually make.

Case in point: Marco Pantani. The man was in the hospital awaiting surgery on his leg after a very nasty crash. They were prepping him for surgery and found a staggering 'crit level (60%+). So they decided to wait for the level to come back down again. The next time they checked it (a day or two later), they saw that it had crashed into the low 30's. He was near death. Only at this point did they think to ask him "Have you been abusing EPO?"... It was the only logical answer. No one that wasn't abusing EPO could produce 60% one day and 30% the next. And in Marco's case, it was because his kidneys became screwed-up in regards to producing natural EPO.

We really have no idea what we're doing to our bodies long-term if we're messing with the chemical messengers in our bodies in this way.

This is an oversimplification. The life span of red blood cells is 120 days. Thus, the half life would be in the order of 60 days. The only way his Htc can fall so quickly is by internal or external bleeding, or by pathological destruction of blood cells (hemolysis).

 

[Barrus]

If such a transfusion is illegal, the doctor may be required to report it to the police.

Susan

YEs, that might be the case. However making it public to the media is completely beyond his obligation to come forward when a crime is committed and is probably a serious breach of his professional duty and he should be sanctioned because of it

 

[ulrikmm]

The Gazetta article suggests that this is a case of autotransfusion = blood doping.

Something has gone wrong: the blood can have been degraded, infected, or mistakenly the blood of somebody with another blood type has been used.

Ricco is clearly in mortal danger.

This highlights that doping is a disease of the m i n d.

Caught under embarrassing circumstances once, and now risking life. Sad.

 

[BotanyBay]

This is an oversimplification. The life span of red blood cells is 120 days. Thus, the half life would be in the order of 60 days. The only way his Htc can fall so quickly is by internal or external bleeding, or by pathological destruction of blood cells (hemolysis).

I suppose I can go dig-up the article, but his crit was really high and then really low. The docs couldn't figure-out his situation until one of them thought of the theory of possible r-EPO abuse. Nothing else made any sense. And he admitted to the EPO abuse so they could save his life.

Back to the kidneys. Sure, we can't PROVE that EPO abuse is affecting Ricco's kidneys, but there is no doubt that EPO abuse is effectively messing with a specific function of the kidneys.