Ricco

[martinvickers]

Hasn't JV done well to portray his bunch of cheats as good guys while all the others are the bad guys.

Ricco, Hesjedal, Millar, VdV, DZ, Armstrong, Landis, di Luca etc all sides of the same coin.

If you want a one and your out policy, count me in. I'll be very happy. but in it's absence, if we are going to have a 'one more chance' policy, it needs to be just that. One more chance. Which Ricco got. And Blew it.

and the idea that other people MAY unknown to us be doping, again, doesn't change that.

 

[Benotti69]

1. Your opinion isn't a basis for a system of justice, or fairness.
2. He might. and he might not. and you'll have to get your head around the might not bit.

This forum isn't a basis for a system of justice, or fairness.

Remember MV, we are dealing with a sport that has proven itself time and time again to only 'talk the talk', when it comes to being clean, not 'walk the walk'.

Hesjedal never got caught for doping. Ricco did twice. So what. We know Hesjedal went and rode for Bruyneel, that bastion of cleanliness and another behemoth of cleanliness Rihs.

You want to swallow that he didn't do what everyone else was doing in 2005-06, enjoy.

 

[BroDeal]

and the hate for Hesjedal sits very poorly in this forum, frankly, with the affection for Ricco.

No, what sits poorly in this forum is the enablers of scum like Froome who would have us believe that those who get caught are somehow worse than those who do not.

The reason why people hate Ricco and Landis is because of their honesty. All the other riders pretend they are innocent or pretend they are sorry when they are caught, but Ricco and Landis are man enough to say, "So what? That is the way pro cycling is."

 

[the sceptic]

This forum isn't a basis for a system of justice, or fairness.

Remember MV, we are dealing with a sport that has proven itself time and time again to only 'talk the talk', when it comes to being clean, not 'walk the walk'.

Hesjedal never got caught for doping. Ricco did twice. So what. We know Hesjedal went and rode for Bruyneel, that bastion of cleanliness and another behemoth of cleanliness Rihs.

You want to swallow that he didn't do what everyone else was doing in 2005-06, enjoy.

Martin needs evidence before he believes anyone is a doper.

Even if Hesjedal was injecting EPO right before his eyes he wouldnt believe it.

And if he did, he would only do it once and be clean for the rest of his career.

However Ricco is forever a cheater since he happened to be unlucky enough to get busted twice.

 

[Benotti69]

If you want a one and your out policy, count me in. I'll be very happy. but in it's absence, if we are going to have a 'one more chance' policy, it needs to be just that. One more chance. Which Ricco got. And Blew it.

and the idea that other people MAY unknown to us be doping, again, doesn't change that.

I am in favour of you are caught and out.

Stop trying to analyse this like the clinic is a court. It aint, we are not judge and jury.

If you want to believe what this known liars and cheats are telling you in 2013 knowing they lied previously, fine.

All dopers, whether nice guys or not are cheats.

 

[martinvickers]

This forum isn't a basis for a system of justice, or fairness.

Remember MV, we are dealing with a sport that has proven itself time and time again to only 'talk the talk', when it comes to being clean, not 'walk the walk'.

It's becoming a single transferable speech, B. They all doped, they always doped, therefore they all still dope, they will always dope, etc, etc.

If that's your opinion, fine, take up draughts.

Hesjedal never got caught for doping. Ricco did twice. So what. We know Hesjedal went and rode for Bruyneel, that bastion of cleanliness and another behemoth of cleanliness Rihs.

You want to swallow that he didn't do what everyone else was doing in 2005-06, enjoy.

I'm swallowing nothing. I'm just looking for some evidence.

Hesjedal was never caught, but he doped.

I don't agree he should get away with it on back of SOL. In most systems civil SOL only runs from the moment the authorities get evidence of the occurance, so he would have no protection.

He should be banned for life, but given the system we have, two years, unless he provided significant assistance to WADA.

But Ricco doped, and doped. than finally got caught; got a second chance and a reduced ban. All fair enough, i suppose.

And then went and did it again.

No. He's done.

 

[martinvickers]

No, what sits poorly in this forum is the enablers of scum like Froome who would have us believe that those who get caught are somehow worse than those who do not.

WE'll just leave this fairly disgusting ad hominem where it belongs, shall we...

The reason why people hate Ricco and Landis is because of their honesty. All the other riders pretend they are innocent or pretend they are sorry when they are caught, but Ricco and Landis are man enough to say, "So what? That is the way pro cycling is."

you think doping is honest, Brodeal? Hmmm.

I don't hate Landis. I don't even dislike him.

I think ricco seems a pr!ck, but that's not my problem. My problem with Ricco is simple. He's a doper, who offended again and again, and doesn't care. And got a second chance, which I personally don't agree with, but there you are, and he blew it.

If you agree with him not caring, that's up to you.

The idea that I should give the same weight to your biases and hunches as i do to actual proven doping is risible.

 

[the sceptic]

1. Marco Pantani (ITA / Mercatone Uno) | 16.23 | 1999
2. Pavel Tonkov (RUS / Mapei) | 16.49 | 1998
3. Marco Pantani (ITA / Mercatone Uno) | 16.50 | 1998
4. Denis Mentshov (RUS / Rabobank) | 17.21 | 2008
5. Gilberto Simoni (ITA / Saeco) | 17.22 | 2003
6. Ryder Hesjedal (CAN / Garmin | 17.29 | 2012
7. Franco Pellizotti (ITA / Liquigas) | 17.30 | 2008
8. Gilberto Simoni (ITA / Ballan-Alessio) | 17.30 | 1999
9. Riccardo Ricco (ITA / Saunier Duval) | 17.30 | 2008
10. Nicola Miceli (ITA / Riso Scotti) | 17.33 | 1998

Looks like I just proved that Hesjedal was a better climber than Ricco.

Or does this only work on Horner vs Froome?

 

[martinvickers]

Martin needs evidence before he believes anyone is a doper.

1. ad hominem.
2. It's nothing to do with 'belief', it's to do with when action is justifiable. My belief is worth exactly the same as yours.

Nothing.

Even if Hesjedal was injecting EPO right before his eyes he wouldnt believe it.

Why wouldn't I? what an absurd thing to say. Have you been on the grog early today?

However Ricco is forever a cheater since he happened to be unlucky enough to get busted twice.

WEll, get busted once, get your ban, know the next one's a lifer, and dope anyway? Yep, that's a doper for life I suspect. But even if he wasn't - he blew his chance. end of.

 

[martinvickers]

Looks like I just proved that Hesjedal was a better climber than Ricco.

Or does this only work on Horner vs Froome?

You still struggling with the difference between one performance and performance trends?

 

[Benotti69]

It's becoming a single transferable speech, B. They all doped, they always doped, therefore they all still dope, they will always dope, etc, etc.

If that's your opinion, fine, take up draughts.

Was going to take up pidgeon racing, but it appears that the Belgians are doping at that too.........

I'm swallowing nothing. I'm just looking for some evidence.

Yeah, Hesjedal rode for doping teams, just like Ricco. Evidence enough for a forum. Remember a forum.

Hesjedal was never caught, but he doped.

Proabably never stopped. He won a GT.

I don't agree he should get away with it on back of SOL. In most systems civil SOL only runs from the moment the authorities get evidence of the occurance, so he would have no protection.

He should be banned for life, but given the system we have, two years, unless he provided significant assistance to WADA.

But Ricco doped, and doped. than finally got caught; got a second chance and a reduced ban. All fair enough, i suppose.

And then went and did it again.

No. He's done.

Ricco doped and doped, just like half Garmin we know about and probably the other half too.

Stop waiting for this sport to produce evidence. It takes guys like Rasmussen, Voet, Kimmage to expose the cesspit for what it is.

 

[coinneach]

Martin, follow your own advice and hit the ignore button....
rational argument has gone out the window on this thread!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Martin. Try to keep calm.

Getting busted twice doesnt mean you are doping more than riders that got busted once or never got busted.

At the end of the day, everyone dopes for the same reason.

If anything Hesjedal is a worse doper than Ricco in my opinion. He might have doped for a decade without getting caught.

True - but again the distinction is that Ricco was busted.

When you have been busted you get time off, that should be your turning point as well as that a second sanction will lead to a much longer ban.

 

[BroDeal]

True - but again the distinction is that Ricco was busted.

When you have been busted you get time off, that should be your turning point as well as that a second sanction will lead to a much longer ban.

So the riders who come back from a ban are expected to compete clean against all the others who are still doping? Are you smoking the wacky weed?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

So the riders who come back from a ban are expected to compete clean against all the others who are still doping? Are you smoking the same wacky weed Vickers on or is it something in Irish water?

Vino did. (So did Kash )

 

[Hugh Januss]

Liking him is irrelevant. He comes across as an unrepentant doper, and a bit of a pr!ck, but it's only the former I care about. As a person, i don't really know him.

.

What exactly would a "repentant" doper look like anyway? Someone who says "it was only once, a long time ago (before the SOL) I am really sorry (I got caught/outed), it was a mistake, I am clean now"?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So the riders who come back from a ban are expected to compete clean against all the others who are still doping? Are you smoking the same wacky weed Vickers on or is it something in Irish water?

Actually, the idea is they are all meant to be clean.

It is very like this forum - there are rules, we are all meant to abide by them.
But as they are being ignored and not enforced (Hi Parullo) it won't take long for everyone to descend towards the default.

It is a systematic problem, not an individual one.

 

[thehog]

So the riders who come back from a ban are expected to compete clean against all the others who are still doping? Are you smoking the same wacky weed Vickers on or is it something in Irish water?

Ricco came back in 2010.

In 2009 sitting it out he saw the Armstrong comeback and Contador VAMming like no other.

I'm sure he thought... now how do I skin this procycling cat again?

He saw Wiggins get 4th! Poor Ricco having to digest that.

 

[MarkvW]

Once again Vickers' ridiculous hypocrisy is exposed.

people like this are part of the problem. They are the ones that support the scapegoating of riders to protect the dirty reality of the sport. Without them the sport would have to deal with the problem instead of treating it as an exercise in fooling the rubes.

Professional bike riders cheat. They have always cheated and they will always cheat. Their methods of cheating become more and more powerful--and the powerful effects of that cheating last long after the cheating has "stopped." Finally, the cheaters are always going to be technologically ahead of the testers and the testers are always going to be hampered by the minimal standards of fairness imposed by the UCI.

The cheats only understand the language of money. Martin Vickers' isn't speaking that language, so it's ridiculous to think that he is "part of the problem." You are unfairly scapegoating him.

We're going to be seeing some genetically enhanced freaks out there on the Pro Tour in the next few years, and nothing cycling fans say or do is going to be part of that problem.

 

[BroDeal]

It is a systematic problem, not an individual one.

Obviously. So why hold Ricco out as some sort of demon who is worse than everyone else?

 

[BroDeal]

The cheats only understand the language of money. Martin Vickers' isn't speaking that language, so it's ridiculous to think that he is "part of the problem." You are unfairly scapegoating him.

Actually gullible people like him are the problem. Those are the people the sport relies on to sponge up the excuses, dodges, and outright lies. Those are the people who are targeted when a rider says he gave into temptation once (long ago) and then stopped. Those are the people who all this "new age" of cycling BS is designed for.

 

[MarkvW]

Obviously. So why hold Ricco out as some sort of demon who is worse than everyone else?

It is just a matter of personal taste. It is quite common here for posters to identify a doper who is worse than everyone else.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Obviously. So why hold Ricco out as some sort of demon who is worse than everyone else?

Bro - this is a straw man and quite honestly beneath you. I do not hold him as a demon, in fact it is guys like him who deserve protection.

 

[MarkvW]

Actually gullible people like him are the problem. Those are the people the sport relies on to sponge up the excuses, dodges, and outright lies. Those are the people who are targeted when a rider says he gave into temptation once (long ago) and then stopped. Those are the people who all this "new age" of cycling BS is designed for.

It's about advertising eyeballs--and the sponsors don't care whether the eyeballs are those of fanbois, skeptics, or haters. That advertising money fuels the dopage.


The heroes? German TV!!

 

[Peccio89]

Hope it will be televised, this kind of attempt have the potential to be the hour record of the 21th century.
I'm really looking forward to see the outfit he will ride in.