- Aug 12, 2009
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Not rubbishing Richie's ability.
Great at the Tour Down Under and if he attacked when I yell to attack, he'd have an extra win to his resume. His timing on some minor things needs working - he lost that race by a second to Rohan Dennis in 2015.
Great in the early part of the season at the stage races leading into the classics. Porte was exceedingly great performance wise there in 2015, a bit down this year, but that made sense given he was targeting the Tour.
Richie will be accussed of sucking wheels in bigger races, and by that I mean grand tours. But do note, if your win 3 stage races in a season, you're no schmuck. But handling the physical requirements of 7-9 days of racing is not the same as 21 days of racing, and Richie does need a result. Not because I say so, but because his most ardent fans, especially the Aussie ones have said he will perform. Every night,we get to hear about Richie.
Is that fair to him that he's talked up? As I said, in the past, when he slipped back (giro 2015), the HONEST commentators, who are former pros and coaches, Robbie McEwen and Henk Vogels were upfront. The problem is until he does drop back, they don't shut the fanboys down. I can imagine part of that would be a fan backlash on social media and the threat of losing a plush commentary job.
My advice to BMC would have been simple. Target the wins in the early races like last year, do the EXACT same thing and send Richie, plus Tejay and Rohan to the Giro. Overload the one race where you can benefit from a stronger team. Why? BMC had 3 guys on stage 2 left at the end from what I have re-examined; Tejay, Richie and Greg. That's so sad. Check the time finishes for the line, Froome had Henao, Landa on time with him and Geraint Thomas only slightly back. Richie's closest team mate finished 4 mins down on Sagan, so 2+ mins behind Richie. No wonder he couldn't swap bikes!
This Tour parcours was not the race to test their new lineup at. They needed an actual result on GC for the team. The Giro as movingstar suggests with Kruisjwijk, allowed one to target the race and build momentum. Go one year, get a decent top 10, figure out how to do better and return. Kruisjwijk did that. He was super strong. BMC and Porte's 2015 results NEEDED confidence building!!
What I am saying is that it's insane to set the bar as a Tour podium when your momentum is lacking. Two failed GT's for Tejay and Richie lacked all firepower last year. Build the confidence up, target the less fiercely fought GT, take a loaded team where it will benefit relative to your competition (BMC are about the 5th strongest GT team at the Tour, maybe lower...that's been proven on stage 2!) and look for a result.
Take the result and then plan again. Consider the Tour, or go for the Vuelta and then come back in 2017 with an aim to improve. BMC did the opposite. They saw the GLAMOUR race, thinking they can WIN and have gone in with a goal that's just ridiculous. I don't blame people for HOPING, but be realistic! Lotto Jumbo don't sent Kruisjwijk here...because he'd be wasted. But aiming for a Giro podium is still darn awesome.
Check the articles from yesterday on here out. Tejay had to ENCOURAGE Richie because after stage 2, he was already saying his race was over! Not at all...but that proves in part what I've known for a while, that Richie is mentally suspect. His rivals know this. Froome is far to polite and kind to dig at him, but the non English speakers won't cut him slack. Why should they? Which is what I was suggesting above, think of the riders mental state. If you set the bar as 'goal is to podium tour' and you've done nothing historically to suggest that's achievable, when the rider inevitably falls short, or has a hiccup (like stage 2) you leave them open to mental setback. The BMC manager said Richie was mentally fine BUT Tejay was saying he had to encourage Richie...why?
Again I believe its stupidity on the managements part. Take Tejay in Switzerland and not wearing cold weather gear. You YELL at him to rug up and put something warm on and EAT! That's just bad rider management. Leaders often need to think for the riders...so why aren't BMC? Evans could think for himself, but he is really intelligent. What about the riders who don't think like that? I find that lack of care, personally deplorable. It's why I am criticising BMC, not the riders, but the management. They can do better.
barmaher said:
Not rubbishing Richie's ability.
Great at the Tour Down Under and if he attacked when I yell to attack, he'd have an extra win to his resume. His timing on some minor things needs working - he lost that race by a second to Rohan Dennis in 2015.
Great in the early part of the season at the stage races leading into the classics. Porte was exceedingly great performance wise there in 2015, a bit down this year, but that made sense given he was targeting the Tour.
Richie will be accussed of sucking wheels in bigger races, and by that I mean grand tours. But do note, if your win 3 stage races in a season, you're no schmuck. But handling the physical requirements of 7-9 days of racing is not the same as 21 days of racing, and Richie does need a result. Not because I say so, but because his most ardent fans, especially the Aussie ones have said he will perform. Every night,we get to hear about Richie.
Is that fair to him that he's talked up? As I said, in the past, when he slipped back (giro 2015), the HONEST commentators, who are former pros and coaches, Robbie McEwen and Henk Vogels were upfront. The problem is until he does drop back, they don't shut the fanboys down. I can imagine part of that would be a fan backlash on social media and the threat of losing a plush commentary job.
My advice to BMC would have been simple. Target the wins in the early races like last year, do the EXACT same thing and send Richie, plus Tejay and Rohan to the Giro. Overload the one race where you can benefit from a stronger team. Why? BMC had 3 guys on stage 2 left at the end from what I have re-examined; Tejay, Richie and Greg. That's so sad. Check the time finishes for the line, Froome had Henao, Landa on time with him and Geraint Thomas only slightly back. Richie's closest team mate finished 4 mins down on Sagan, so 2+ mins behind Richie. No wonder he couldn't swap bikes!
This Tour parcours was not the race to test their new lineup at. They needed an actual result on GC for the team. The Giro as movingstar suggests with Kruisjwijk, allowed one to target the race and build momentum. Go one year, get a decent top 10, figure out how to do better and return. Kruisjwijk did that. He was super strong. BMC and Porte's 2015 results NEEDED confidence building!!
What I am saying is that it's insane to set the bar as a Tour podium when your momentum is lacking. Two failed GT's for Tejay and Richie lacked all firepower last year. Build the confidence up, target the less fiercely fought GT, take a loaded team where it will benefit relative to your competition (BMC are about the 5th strongest GT team at the Tour, maybe lower...that's been proven on stage 2!) and look for a result.
Take the result and then plan again. Consider the Tour, or go for the Vuelta and then come back in 2017 with an aim to improve. BMC did the opposite. They saw the GLAMOUR race, thinking they can WIN and have gone in with a goal that's just ridiculous. I don't blame people for HOPING, but be realistic! Lotto Jumbo don't sent Kruisjwijk here...because he'd be wasted. But aiming for a Giro podium is still darn awesome.
Check the articles from yesterday on here out. Tejay had to ENCOURAGE Richie because after stage 2, he was already saying his race was over! Not at all...but that proves in part what I've known for a while, that Richie is mentally suspect. His rivals know this. Froome is far to polite and kind to dig at him, but the non English speakers won't cut him slack. Why should they? Which is what I was suggesting above, think of the riders mental state. If you set the bar as 'goal is to podium tour' and you've done nothing historically to suggest that's achievable, when the rider inevitably falls short, or has a hiccup (like stage 2) you leave them open to mental setback. The BMC manager said Richie was mentally fine BUT Tejay was saying he had to encourage Richie...why?
Again I believe its stupidity on the managements part. Take Tejay in Switzerland and not wearing cold weather gear. You YELL at him to rug up and put something warm on and EAT! That's just bad rider management. Leaders often need to think for the riders...so why aren't BMC? Evans could think for himself, but he is really intelligent. What about the riders who don't think like that? I find that lack of care, personally deplorable. It's why I am criticising BMC, not the riders, but the management. They can do better.
- Aug 12, 2009
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You're missing the point.
Astana have two grand Tour winners. They can podium this race but most would say, Aru is maybe 4th place at best.
Contador can easily podium and win. Nobody said he was favourite though. We know he believes he can win the race. But he has evidence to support his goal. Granite hard evidence.
Movistar made the podium with two riders last year. They are free to believe they can win, because if most fans and commentators have their say, only Quintana has been touted as capable of beating Chris Froome on form. I don't believe that, but its how 2013 and 2015 panned out with Nairo putting Froome into serious trouble in the third week last year and Movistar actually attacking. Don't forget, on this forum they've been accused in previous years as being boring (2013 and 2014) - I never believed that and they did expose Froome on Alpe d'Huez.
I will explain this clearly. In Australia, SBS broadcast the Tour. We have Matthew Keenan and Robbie McEwen (former green jersey winner) commentate the early part of each stage and with 40-50km to go, they hand over to Phil and Paul.
This year, after Richie left Sky, he's been spoken of a LOT by certain SBS staff, the broadcasting staff. Their online written journalists don't play his chances up, but the broadcasting ones do. They talk about Aussies. Non stop. I can only imagine the American viewers witness the same thing with Tejay. We've been hearing about Tejay for years.
Why such an emphasis on English speaking riders? Because there is subtle national favouritism in many nations.
Do you think on Italian tv they don't talk about Nibali, or Aru and their chances more than other riders? How do you think the Spanish handle things? Or the British with Froome? I dare say they talk their riders up.
Now imagine how those riders HANDLE the headlines. Froome is fine, he's won. Same with Contador and Quintana. They've been there, done that, they can handle the results.
But what happens when you're HYPED as a winner and the literal crap hits the fan? It happened to Vincenzo Nibali. He was being attacked and pressured quite heavily during the Giro. Yet he overcame that. He stepped up and attacked and it paid.
I don't OVER HYPE anyone because that ADDED pressure is never conducive to great performances. It's often too much for most to handle. I know who should perform based on historic results and the parcours...so I use that as a basis for an estimation. But I don't sit there every darn grand tour and state a rider will win...no, I give him the opportunity to get to the third week, then see how he goes.
You will find many of those over hyping Porte and Tejay have under estimated riders like Contador and others...they get caught out by me continually. Their language is a dead set giveaway. Matthew Keenan does this a lot. He slips up with his individual stage predictions a lot, and Robbie McEwen corrects him. MOST non cycling fans rely on that man's interpretation to figure out what is going on. Seasoned fans get a good giggle and laugh, because they know he's stark raving mad!
SO in order to protect a riders mental/emotional state, I don't believe in telling them they're the ants pants, bees knees or the ducks nuts. Did you know they do that to our swimmers at the Olympics? I had to watch a teenager cry because she believed a silver medal was a FAILURE. Why? The press and everyone had over hyped this young woman into believing she would win GOLD. Nothing else.
I am advocating setting the BAR at a REASONABLE level. Richie really should be aiming for the King of the Mountains jersey. BMC have really messed this up...the smart move was the Giro for the WHOLE TEAM of leaders, do that, see what happens, then maybe ride the Tour and go for the KOM and stages. Then ride the Vuelta for a win if the Giro went well for one of their leaders.
Actually listen to everything the riders voice, but also their team. BMC over stepped their mark.
Anyway...I know they're not going to listen. But if Richie does fade between stages 10-12, he should be given a few days off, then asked to go for a stage and KOM. He can IMO, get that jersey. But podium? No. Tenth would be above and beyond what he can expect. Having everyone tell him he can win or podium is doing the man a lot of mental damage...pay attention and you'll see it.
Night Rider said:
You're missing the point.
Astana have two grand Tour winners. They can podium this race but most would say, Aru is maybe 4th place at best.
Contador can easily podium and win. Nobody said he was favourite though. We know he believes he can win the race. But he has evidence to support his goal. Granite hard evidence.
Movistar made the podium with two riders last year. They are free to believe they can win, because if most fans and commentators have their say, only Quintana has been touted as capable of beating Chris Froome on form. I don't believe that, but its how 2013 and 2015 panned out with Nairo putting Froome into serious trouble in the third week last year and Movistar actually attacking. Don't forget, on this forum they've been accused in previous years as being boring (2013 and 2014) - I never believed that and they did expose Froome on Alpe d'Huez.
I will explain this clearly. In Australia, SBS broadcast the Tour. We have Matthew Keenan and Robbie McEwen (former green jersey winner) commentate the early part of each stage and with 40-50km to go, they hand over to Phil and Paul.
This year, after Richie left Sky, he's been spoken of a LOT by certain SBS staff, the broadcasting staff. Their online written journalists don't play his chances up, but the broadcasting ones do. They talk about Aussies. Non stop. I can only imagine the American viewers witness the same thing with Tejay. We've been hearing about Tejay for years.
Why such an emphasis on English speaking riders? Because there is subtle national favouritism in many nations.
Do you think on Italian tv they don't talk about Nibali, or Aru and their chances more than other riders? How do you think the Spanish handle things? Or the British with Froome? I dare say they talk their riders up.
Now imagine how those riders HANDLE the headlines. Froome is fine, he's won. Same with Contador and Quintana. They've been there, done that, they can handle the results.
But what happens when you're HYPED as a winner and the literal crap hits the fan? It happened to Vincenzo Nibali. He was being attacked and pressured quite heavily during the Giro. Yet he overcame that. He stepped up and attacked and it paid.
I don't OVER HYPE anyone because that ADDED pressure is never conducive to great performances. It's often too much for most to handle. I know who should perform based on historic results and the parcours...so I use that as a basis for an estimation. But I don't sit there every darn grand tour and state a rider will win...no, I give him the opportunity to get to the third week, then see how he goes.
You will find many of those over hyping Porte and Tejay have under estimated riders like Contador and others...they get caught out by me continually. Their language is a dead set giveaway. Matthew Keenan does this a lot. He slips up with his individual stage predictions a lot, and Robbie McEwen corrects him. MOST non cycling fans rely on that man's interpretation to figure out what is going on. Seasoned fans get a good giggle and laugh, because they know he's stark raving mad!
SO in order to protect a riders mental/emotional state, I don't believe in telling them they're the ants pants, bees knees or the ducks nuts. Did you know they do that to our swimmers at the Olympics? I had to watch a teenager cry because she believed a silver medal was a FAILURE. Why? The press and everyone had over hyped this young woman into believing she would win GOLD. Nothing else.
I am advocating setting the BAR at a REASONABLE level. Richie really should be aiming for the King of the Mountains jersey. BMC have really messed this up...the smart move was the Giro for the WHOLE TEAM of leaders, do that, see what happens, then maybe ride the Tour and go for the KOM and stages. Then ride the Vuelta for a win if the Giro went well for one of their leaders.
Actually listen to everything the riders voice, but also their team. BMC over stepped their mark.
Anyway...I know they're not going to listen. But if Richie does fade between stages 10-12, he should be given a few days off, then asked to go for a stage and KOM. He can IMO, get that jersey. But podium? No. Tenth would be above and beyond what he can expect. Having everyone tell him he can win or podium is doing the man a lot of mental damage...pay attention and you'll see it.
I think you may have quoted the wrong person there, Mr Ho. I'm about as far removed from the LRP fan club as you can get :surprised:
- Aug 12, 2009
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The quote reference system on here is not the same as it was years and years ago. I don't look at this corner of the world often...I might have clicked the reply button to the wrong quote. My apologies.
LRP will have fun helping his team mate.
Maybe Greg van Avermaet was the hidden team leader?
BMC did something, so well done to Greg. If what the team has said was SERIOUS, then taking yellow was a STUPID idea. Granted I think they've been over estimating their potential, good for them though. At least they can now leave the Tour with something.
Personally, if Tinkoff do split up, Contador will need a team next year. Tejay and Porte would make FINE domestiques.
Night Rider said:
The quote reference system on here is not the same as it was years and years ago. I don't look at this corner of the world often...I might have clicked the reply button to the wrong quote. My apologies.
LRP will have fun helping his team mate.
Maybe Greg van Avermaet was the hidden team leader?
BMC did something, so well done to Greg. If what the team has said was SERIOUS, then taking yellow was a STUPID idea. Granted I think they've been over estimating their potential, good for them though. At least they can now leave the Tour with something.
Personally, if Tinkoff do split up, Contador will need a team next year. Tejay and Porte would make FINE domestiques.
Re: Re:
Porte and TJVG won't be going anywhere unless BMC fold at the end of next year. And why would they want to ride for someone who has not made the Tour podium since 2010 ? Contador will never win another Tour, that much is clear. If BMC do nothing on GC in the Tour this year they should both ride the Giro but of course it will never happen as sponsors won't like it. Contador will probably try for the Tour again next year but the Giro could be a good race with many second level GC riders. Nibali will do the Tour next year with his new team. Aru may do either one, especially if he does not have a good Tour this year. Chaves and SK will also probably do the Giro again. Maybe Landa as well. The Giro could be a nice race but without Froome and Quintana I think.
Galic Ho said:
Porte and TJVG won't be going anywhere unless BMC fold at the end of next year. And why would they want to ride for someone who has not made the Tour podium since 2010 ? Contador will never win another Tour, that much is clear. If BMC do nothing on GC in the Tour this year they should both ride the Giro but of course it will never happen as sponsors won't like it. Contador will probably try for the Tour again next year but the Giro could be a good race with many second level GC riders. Nibali will do the Tour next year with his new team. Aru may do either one, especially if he does not have a good Tour this year. Chaves and SK will also probably do the Giro again. Maybe Landa as well. The Giro could be a nice race but without Froome and Quintana I think.
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
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How did Richie look today? Certainly a lot better than his future team leader Alberto 
. Contador had falls and Giro in his legs in 2011 but didn't look this bad. Lets face it Alberto is past his best and his team knows it. Porte riding for Contador makes no sense at all these days.
If LRP doesn't have his obligatory bad day on Arcalis then he should be looking good by tomorrow night. Massive day coming up.
. Contador had falls and Giro in his legs in 2011 but didn't look this bad. Lets face it Alberto is past his best and his team knows it. Porte riding for Contador makes no sense at all these days. If LRP doesn't have his obligatory bad day on Arcalis then he should be looking good by tomorrow night. Massive day coming up.
Re:
TJVG also looked good. I think it was careless of the group to let Froome get away like that but he attacked the descent and of course the chase was not organized. Round one to Froome. Contador should abandon and do the Vuelta.
Cookster15 said:How did Richie look today? Certainly a lot better than his future team leader Alberto
If LRP doesn't have his obligatory bad day on Arcalis then he should be looking good by tomorrow night. Massive day coming up.
TJVG also looked good. I think it was careless of the group to let Froome get away like that but he attacked the descent and of course the chase was not organized. Round one to Froome. Contador should abandon and do the Vuelta.
- Aug 12, 2009
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Past his best.
Man, I just remembered who you are and your posting style and how your brain works.
Go and look at his wiki palmares.
Every grand tour he rides FRESH, Contador has won. Apart from 2014 when he broke his leg and this year, a crash is the ONLY thing that has stopped him winning.
He's 34 next season. At 34 years of age Cadel Evans won his FIRST and only GRAND TOUR. He then proceeded to finish 7th in the Tour, 3rd at the Giro, with another 8th in his final season at the Giro.
It's pedigree. Contador has MORE than every other grand tour rider. He's got the record. Past his best? No, your brain just isn't connecting the obvious dots. It's called BIAS and HYPE.
BMC as I said, have an established precedent with an older GC rider with proven form and results and SHOULD have put in a bid for Contador. Why? He'd get them a GT win, even if it was just the Giro or Vuelta. Imagine having him help Tejay and Richie LEARN how to attack! Oh wait, I actually want to see good racing and riders learn to attack and win...do you? How one rides speaks of who they are as well...not everyone will sit back and be CONTENT with letting others do the work.
What did they refuse to do last night? Pull. Not once have BMC pulled.
Who was I told rebuked strongly those on stage 7 who raced disrespectfully? Cancellara. Who did I say rebuked Cadel Evans for doing the same? Cancellara. It's etiquette and class. It's called actually making a move, even if FAILS. It wins fans. Look at Froome...he made a lot of fans last night.
I've actually remembered why I stopped coming here. It's a forum filled with angry people who blame everyone for every reason they can. Projecting about doping, why cycling is bad, etc. It's actually good entertainment.
Sure, I don't think BMC have the fire power to do well. And yes, I do think they played into the PR game and over hyped themselves. At some point though, one has to actually deliver. Froome and Quintana will go tonight. Won't be any hiding then. It's a darn shame Contador fell twice and is injured, because he'd attack had that not occurred. Now we're left with hopes of what? Porte and Van Garderen?
Watch and see what they do. I'd be watching Purito, Dan Martin and Bardet first though. Riders who actually have shown a DESIRE to attack.
Cookster15 said:How did Richie look today? Certainly a lot better than his future team leader Alberto
If LRP doesn't have his obligatory bad day on Arcalis then he should be looking good by tomorrow night. Massive day coming up.
Past his best.
Man, I just remembered who you are and your posting style and how your brain works.
Go and look at his wiki palmares.
Every grand tour he rides FRESH, Contador has won. Apart from 2014 when he broke his leg and this year, a crash is the ONLY thing that has stopped him winning.
He's 34 next season. At 34 years of age Cadel Evans won his FIRST and only GRAND TOUR. He then proceeded to finish 7th in the Tour, 3rd at the Giro, with another 8th in his final season at the Giro.
It's pedigree. Contador has MORE than every other grand tour rider. He's got the record. Past his best? No, your brain just isn't connecting the obvious dots. It's called BIAS and HYPE.
BMC as I said, have an established precedent with an older GC rider with proven form and results and SHOULD have put in a bid for Contador. Why? He'd get them a GT win, even if it was just the Giro or Vuelta. Imagine having him help Tejay and Richie LEARN how to attack! Oh wait, I actually want to see good racing and riders learn to attack and win...do you? How one rides speaks of who they are as well...not everyone will sit back and be CONTENT with letting others do the work.
What did they refuse to do last night? Pull. Not once have BMC pulled.
Who was I told rebuked strongly those on stage 7 who raced disrespectfully? Cancellara. Who did I say rebuked Cadel Evans for doing the same? Cancellara. It's etiquette and class. It's called actually making a move, even if FAILS. It wins fans. Look at Froome...he made a lot of fans last night.
I've actually remembered why I stopped coming here. It's a forum filled with angry people who blame everyone for every reason they can. Projecting about doping, why cycling is bad, etc. It's actually good entertainment.
Sure, I don't think BMC have the fire power to do well. And yes, I do think they played into the PR game and over hyped themselves. At some point though, one has to actually deliver. Froome and Quintana will go tonight. Won't be any hiding then. It's a darn shame Contador fell twice and is injured, because he'd attack had that not occurred. Now we're left with hopes of what? Porte and Van Garderen?
Watch and see what they do. I'd be watching Purito, Dan Martin and Bardet first though. Riders who actually have shown a DESIRE to attack.
- May 19, 2014
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Just a note: Contador will turn 34 at the end of this year.
By the way... "BMC as I said, have an established precedent with an older GC rider with proven form and results and SHOULD have put in a bid for Contador."
Doing it with one rider can hardly be called an established precedent. More of an outlier. And at 11's Tour, Evans pushed less watts per kilo than Froome at the following years (and Quintana, Nibali, etc).
Also, thinking that Contador is past his best level isn't being biased. It's an opinion which may not be correct (since only a few here understand sports medicine, and even fewer of us know what are Contador's real numbers regarding things as watts per kilo, so none of us can compare him to his best level, as him, 09-11). However, stating that thinking that his past level is ***/bias is... in itself, being biased.
Final note: in 2013 he rode the Tour as fresh as a lettuce. That didn't hamper him from providing a 100% crappy performance (according to his previous performances). What I call that? An outlier. Not as big as Evans win at the age of 34, or even Horner's win. But still an outlier. And they exist and are basis of nothing.
By the way... "BMC as I said, have an established precedent with an older GC rider with proven form and results and SHOULD have put in a bid for Contador."
Doing it with one rider can hardly be called an established precedent. More of an outlier. And at 11's Tour, Evans pushed less watts per kilo than Froome at the following years (and Quintana, Nibali, etc).
Also, thinking that Contador is past his best level isn't being biased. It's an opinion which may not be correct (since only a few here understand sports medicine, and even fewer of us know what are Contador's real numbers regarding things as watts per kilo, so none of us can compare him to his best level, as him, 09-11). However, stating that thinking that his past level is ***/bias is... in itself, being biased.
Final note: in 2013 he rode the Tour as fresh as a lettuce. That didn't hamper him from providing a 100% crappy performance (according to his previous performances). What I call that? An outlier. Not as big as Evans win at the age of 34, or even Horner's win. But still an outlier. And they exist and are basis of nothing.
Cookster15
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When did Contador look at his best? 2011 Giro was close. 2009 was probably his absolute peak performance - Verbier. and despite his team backing Lance But never got to that level since. 2012 and 2014 Vuelta - nope. Giro 2015 nope. Yes might still be capable of winning GTs but he's past his best. Its just that less than best for AC is still capable of beating the best around - especially at the Vuelta. The guy won his first Tour 10 years ago - at 24, do you fan boys think he is some sort of god? He's human, everybody has a use by date. Horner winning the Vuelta at nearly at 42 is what I call an outlier. Evans is just older than average and his road career started late plus had a string of broken collarbones and then got held back by Telekom with their boy Jan. Lenric answered his own question about 2011 TDF - Evans pushed less watts per kilo than Froome at the following years (and Quintana, Nibali, etc). 2011 TDF was the slowest climbing before or since. Why can't be discussed here.
No arguments from me about AC's palmeres - absolutely the best rider of his generation. Know how my brain works? LOL. Nobody knows how people's brains work, especially on a cycling forum. :lol: One of the funniest things I've ever read on here other than people who take an hour to write a long winded reply on a minor opinion I'm pretty certain many other fans share even if a minority.
So getting back to Richie. I am hoping his obligatory bad day doesn't come tonight. If not I think he'll be looking good. Which was my original point.
No arguments from me about AC's palmeres - absolutely the best rider of his generation. Know how my brain works? LOL. Nobody knows how people's brains work, especially on a cycling forum. :lol: One of the funniest things I've ever read on here other than people who take an hour to write a long winded reply on a minor opinion I'm pretty certain many other fans share even if a minority.
So getting back to Richie. I am hoping his obligatory bad day doesn't come tonight. If not I think he'll be looking good. Which was my original point.
Re:
Yes today's stage is a critical one for all of the GC contenders. As for Contador he should abandon and win one more Vuelta as that will probably be the last GT he ever wins. A stage win for him now is nothing. BMC did actually hit the front in the chase of Froome but the entire group rode badly even Movistar. They had to be fully committed at that stage which they were not. It was a short fast descent and Froome rode it perfectly. Big stage for Richie but he looked good yesterday.
Cookster15 said:
Yes today's stage is a critical one for all of the GC contenders. As for Contador he should abandon and win one more Vuelta as that will probably be the last GT he ever wins. A stage win for him now is nothing. BMC did actually hit the front in the chase of Froome but the entire group rode badly even Movistar. They had to be fully committed at that stage which they were not. It was a short fast descent and Froome rode it perfectly. Big stage for Richie but he looked good yesterday.
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Re:
Cookster, it's a shame your memory is short.
I remember every subtle discrepancy you use to post years ago. The dislike for certain riders. Certain nationalities.
Still upset about the Spanish?
Oh, and I'm not a Contador fanboy.
Not even my top 3 riders...
Alberto Contador gets to retire as the best GT rider of his generation. The man beat an entire team out to beat him. 7 years ago, on this very stage, racing from Barcelona, he attacked the peloton, denying an almost guaranteed yellow jersey from team mate Lance Armstrong in the process.
@ lenric...I've actually deleted about a page of stuff to you both. It's all Clinic related and a recollection of how after 3 years absence Cookster still doesn't understand the meta game behind being a cyclist. We use to have these talks...and he never got it. Even with Clinic explanations. It confused him. So I'm not replying.
Enjoy watching Richie people. I will. Actually, it's more or less I like having a laugh at the SBS commentators. But you'd have to be an Aussie to get it. They keep digging a hole. I've seen it before. Many times Porte was talked up...but this is not 2013 and AX3 Domaines...or is it lenric? Oh, right, the whole cyclingnews forum CRASHED that day, was out of commission for a fortnight and the Clinic went CRAZY. Yeah...I remember what actually occurred.
And at the end of the day, this is about Porte. One top 10 in a GT is good. The men winning the Tour get those riding the Vuelta AFTER making the Tour podium...ask Quintana and Froome.
This is almost like explaining Pinot to the French why over hyping him is DUMB.
Actually, are there ANY serious Porte fans here? Or do people just like replying?
Cookster15 said:
Cookster, it's a shame your memory is short.
I remember every subtle discrepancy you use to post years ago. The dislike for certain riders. Certain nationalities.
Still upset about the Spanish?
Oh, and I'm not a Contador fanboy.
Not even my top 3 riders...
Alberto Contador gets to retire as the best GT rider of his generation. The man beat an entire team out to beat him. 7 years ago, on this very stage, racing from Barcelona, he attacked the peloton, denying an almost guaranteed yellow jersey from team mate Lance Armstrong in the process.
@ lenric...I've actually deleted about a page of stuff to you both. It's all Clinic related and a recollection of how after 3 years absence Cookster still doesn't understand the meta game behind being a cyclist. We use to have these talks...and he never got it. Even with Clinic explanations. It confused him. So I'm not replying.
Enjoy watching Richie people. I will. Actually, it's more or less I like having a laugh at the SBS commentators. But you'd have to be an Aussie to get it. They keep digging a hole. I've seen it before. Many times Porte was talked up...but this is not 2013 and AX3 Domaines...or is it lenric? Oh, right, the whole cyclingnews forum CRASHED that day, was out of commission for a fortnight and the Clinic went CRAZY. Yeah...I remember what actually occurred.
And at the end of the day, this is about Porte. One top 10 in a GT is good. The men winning the Tour get those riding the Vuelta AFTER making the Tour podium...ask Quintana and Froome.
This is almost like explaining Pinot to the French why over hyping him is DUMB.
Actually, are there ANY serious Porte fans here? Or do people just like replying?
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
- 6,180
- 6,690
- 23,180
Galic, people change their minds from 6 years ago - I actually respect Contador more now than back then. Please keep up. But I 100% stand by my comments he is past his best - its getting obvious now even when he's fresh. That doesn't mean I don't respect his palmares. Not sure how many more times I have to write that to guys like you or Hitch. My memory is much better than you realise and I've been following the sport for well over 20 years. But I suppose I should be flattered you remembered that last essay you wrote so long ago .
For the record I don't hold much hope for Porte - no more than you. Simply enjoying it while it lasts. Now back to stage 9....
. For the record I don't hold much hope for Porte - no more than you. Simply enjoying it while it lasts. Now back to stage 9....
DBotero said:
I think he made a mistake today. In the last few kms he was obviously strong, there was no point doing stop start attacks when he is almost two minutes down. He should have ridden like Dumoulin did and ridden for time. If he did he would have put even more time into riders like Aru and others that finished behind him. Even if he was out sprinted it would not have mattered as for him it's a matter of time to make up.
Re:
I'm impressed with your patience !
Cookster15 said:Galic, people change their minds from 6 years ago - I actually respect Contador more now than back then. Please keep up. But I 100% stand by my comments he is past his best - its getting obvious now even when he's fresh. That doesn't mean I don't respect his palmares. Not sure how many more times I have to write that to guys like you or Hitch. My memory is much better than you realise and I've been following the sport for well over 20 years. But I suppose I should be flattered you remembered that last essay you wrote so long ago
For the record I don't hold much hope for Porte - no more than you. Simply enjoying it while it lasts. Now back to stage 9....
I'm impressed with your patience !
- Aug 31, 2012
- 7,550
- 3
- 0
Yes, he should have committed or just followed. Those stop and go attacks have no purpose. I'm guessing the liability to the team that is TJ is connected to his failure to do so
Totally bizarre ride from Porte today, he seemed indecisive. I agree that he should have pressed on and tried to gain time for himself, yet he was all stop/start and swivel-headed like a Schleck brah. In the end he neither waited for TJ nor gained as much time for himself as he otherwise could have. Dumb.
- Jul 19, 2010
- 5,361
- 0
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DBotero said:
Clearly if Arcalis isn't for Tejay, there would more mountain to come. He clearly looks stronger than Tejay. If he could just ride, he might only have Martin and Yates in front of him by now. BMC probably tries to keep 2 leaders hope alive. But clearly the road decides differently. Tejay got dropped every time someone attacks (bless their heart to attack, than waiting for Quintana to attack). Unless BMC doesn't have any faith on Porte since historically he is bounded to have one bad day no matter what.
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