Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[Angliru]

Re:

Compare this Porte muppet with Hamilton, who ground his teeth down after breaking his arm just so he could stay in the Giro.
Or racing with a broken collarbone at the 2003 Tour.

Difference being propelling ones bike forward is done by legs and hips and not the clavicle. Hamilton toughed it out but do we even know the extent of Porte's injuries to be passing judgment? Additionally Hamilton is the exception. How many gc contenders have continued on after breaking their clavicle?

 

[Merckx index]

Re:

Compare this Porte muppet with Hamilton, who ground his teeth down after breaking his arm just so he could stay in the Giro.
Or racing with a broken collarbone at the 2003 Tour.

Not going to disagree about Tyler, who actually won a stage in that 2003 TDF, and finished fourth. But there's a difference between riding with an upper body injury, that no matter how painful, doesn't necessarily affect your riding too much (same with Contador and the shoulder), and a lower body injury that can affect your riding. Remember, Tyler had another crash in the Tour in 2004 that did affect his riding (back injury), and forced him to drop out to much ridicule as Richie is getting now--the infamous Tugboat incident.

Maybe Richie has been exaggerating about the extent of his injuries, but I tend to agree with GM here. Awful lot of bad luck. Even if he had been completely uninjured by the stage 13 crash, he lost almost five minutes in that stage and stage 10, effectively knocking him out of any chance to win the Giro and very seriously hurting his podium chances. Sure, he shouldn't have taken that tire, he certainly shouldn't have tweeted about it, but even without that penalty his chances took a huge hit through no fault of his own.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Was about to chime in about the comparison to hamilton, but Merckx index and Angliru took the words right out of my mouth. +1 to both posts.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

No one who really thought they could challenge for the win would have a program like Porte had before the Giro. He would have faded badly in the third week without any crashes as well.

TBF Wiggins 2012 and Froome 2013 managed to go through the whole gt without getting tired, despite having programmes that should have left them dead.

Hard spring program + Giro =/= Hard spring program + Tour

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I agree that he had some "bad luck", namely the puncture. But the penalty was his own fault. The fact that he could barely hold wheels catching back on wasn't a good sign either. As far as any "injury" he suffered, that seems far more mental than anything. If he were really so injured that he couldn't pedal, he would not have done the TT, nor would he have started yesterday. Sure, he crashed and lost time. So did Contador.

The guy is broken mentally.

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re:

As far as any "injury" he suffered, that seems far more mental than anything. If he were really so injured that he couldn't pedal, he would not have done the TT, nor would he have started yesterday.

I would imagine it was more a case of "Let's get to the rest day and see how I feel".

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Re: Re:

Difference being propelling ones bike forward is done by legs and hips and not the clavicle. Hamilton toughed it out but do we even know the extent of Porte's injuries to be passing judgment? Additionally Hamilton is the exception. How many gc contenders have continued on after breaking their clavicle?

That's self contradictory. On one hand, you say that propelling one's bike forward is done by the legs not the clavicle. On the other hand you say that the vast majority of riders drop out if they break their clavicle.

It's amazing to me that people are buying into this "Porte is injured" narrative, despite zero evidence.
Hamilton continued with a) a broken arm at the Giro, b) a broken collarbone at the Tour.
Vino continued despite being so bandaged up, he looked like a mummy.

Great riders continue despite injuries. Especially when they have their own camper van.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Re: Re:

As far as any "injury" he suffered, that seems far more mental than anything. If he were really so injured that he couldn't pedal, he would not have done the TT, nor would he have started yesterday.

I would imagine it was more a case of "Let's get to the rest day and see how I feel".

I think it was more like "my Giro is shot, Contador is too strong and so is Aru, so I'll just pack it up, take it easy until the rest day, and then blame it on some 'injury'."

 

[coppino]

Maybe i didn't follow his early career enough, but what had Richie Porte done before this Giro to be considered as a real contender for Giro?

 

[IamIronMan]

Buh-bye. Don't let the door hit you.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Maybe i didn't follow his early career enough, but what had Richie Porte done before this Giro to be considered as a real contender for Giro?

He won Paris-Nice, Catalunya and Trentino

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Richie says

"I'm gutted it’s ended this way and that I can’t stay and support Leo, Elia and the team in the last week."

tinge of hypocrisy here?
Hope he leaves Leo K the motorhome - or perhaps it's cursed somehow.

why can't he stay and support them?

this gives me more respect for Froome, at least he soldiers on and helps others if he isn't alien himself, but Porte is just a douchebag who quits at the first sign of trouble.

hopefully this relegates him to permanent domestique status.

He did not quit on the first sign of trouble, he kept riding after the just penalty, he did not quit in disgust. He then crashed through no fault of his own and rode two stages injured. I am not sure how bad his injuries really are but they were hampering him to some extent. Riders have certainly rode on with injury before, his Australian example could be Cadel Evans at the 2010 tour, but really is it the best thing to do?

and remember, for Sky is better having a fully recovered Porte on duty at the Tour, than a tired Porte, 20th at the Giro GC who had no strength to try for a stage win. or even, a Porte stage win at the Giro is less important than a 2013 Porte at the Tour. for Sky I mean. (before anyone tells me I must be kidding)
Sky already won with an Italian, Viviani. that's enough, and he's fighting for the points jersey at his home GT

fans on here won't like that, it's ok. we know: if he continues "shytty Porte" look how many minutes he lost. if he retires "coward"
no problem. Tour is the priority, it always was

 

[Merckx index]

If he were really so injured that he couldn't pedal, he would not have done the TT, nor would he have started yesterday. Sure, he crashed and lost time. So did Contador.

The guy is broken mentally.

It's amazing to me that people are buying into this "Porte is injured" narrative, despite zero evidence.
Hamilton continued with a) a broken arm at the Giro, b) a broken collarbone at the Tour.

Vino continued despite being so bandaged up, he looked like a mummy.

Great riders continue despite injuries. Especially when they have their own camper van.

I already pointed out that Tyler dropped out of the 2004 TDF. This is one example of a rider continuing for a few stages after an injury, until it becomes obvious it affects his form too much to go on.

Another example is Zabriskie in the 2005 TDF. He won the Prologue, and wore the yellow until stage 4, when he crashed in the TTT. He continued riding until stage 9, when he abandoned, saying he was affected too much to continue. Frequently, the injury, or its effect on riding, gets worse as time goes on, because of all the stress of major physical efforts.

Again, I’m not saying you’re wrong. It might be just an excuse for Richie. I do think part of his problem has been mental, the shock of losing so much time on stages where he had every reason to believe he wouldn’t. It has to be difficult to remain motivated when the whole point of your being in the race is gone, when you're just riding for pride. But we don’t have enough information to know how much of his performance decline was physical.

 

[coppino]

Re: Re:

Maybe i didn't follow his early career enough, but what had Richie Porte done before this Giro to be considered as a real contender for Giro?

He won Paris-Nice, Catalunya and Trentino

This makes for a good outsider. Stages are all (or almost all) under 200km, you rarely (if never) climb higher than 1500 (where your body can even not adapt to the conditions), and so on... not saying these aren't good races, but winning them doesn't makes you automatically a conteder..

 

[Jimsnchz]

Tired of hearing about "bad luck". Went back and looked at the crash video, it was just not that bad. Not even any skin loss. The whole string of events just got in his head and he quit. I think thats why he is taking so much grief. Champions fight through the bad days. Sky in general seem to first try to stay upright and hit power meter numbers. When something goes against that plan they seem to crumble. Didn't Wiggans crash in the rain at Vuelta and just melt. Froome hit cbbles at TDF and appeared to be biking on ice and now Porte. Also thinkk that other teams have found their own "marginal gains" now strategy plays a bigger role.

 

[No_Balls]

Re: Re:

As far as any "injury" he suffered, that seems far more mental than anything. If he were really so injured that he couldn't pedal, he would not have done the TT, nor would he have started yesterday.

I would imagine it was more a case of "Let's get to the rest day and see how I feel".

I think it was more like "my Giro is shot, Contador is too strong and so is Aru, so I'll just pack it up, take it easy until the rest day, and then blame it on some 'injury'."

That is pretty much how it unfolded. Remember that he first after that piss poor TT hinted he would abandon, had a talk with their physio and it was stated that he would continue. No problems there. Suddenly he lost 27 minutes and come rest day he withdraws. He would have abandon after or prior the time trial had it was that bad and he even got a green light from the medics.

What a disgrace this camper tour have been.

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

Porte is injured as much as Wiggins was in the 2013 Giro after being humiliated descending in the rain like my dear departed granny. It's too damaging to the "brand" or myth to continue, but not acceptable to quit without some sort of injury.

What are they supposed to say?
"Richie Porte was forced to withdraw from the Giro due to severe injury to his motivation."
"Brad Wiggins was forced to withdraw from the Giro when the state of his descending skills left him extremely ill. Sky have now decided that Paris Roubaix makes a lot more sense for him because um, it's flat and it never rains there."

 

[EuroCyclingFan]

Re:

In retrospective the entire affair is laughable at best. All motorhome & marginal gains *** and then:
1- Richie punctures and no one's ready to get his wheel changed and no one even cares about the rules
2- Sky even post on Twitter how they went against the rules. Except then they cry for it.
3- Richie crashes. Everyone in the team look at each other for minutes before making the best decision ever: "let's put the dwarf on the bike of a giant!"
4- when it's clear his mind isn't there anymore they make Richie look like a buffoon in a couple of stages before making him retire with the classic lie.

So much for marginal gains.

It's all very sad really.
The big Sky team of yesteryears continuing on touting this moronic "marginal gains" theorem.
Have to say that with the big bus, came along the usual big heads of Sky, and that unshakeable air of superiority.
Sky and Porte's refusal to engage with the Giro's primary media outlet ( Rai) was/is testament to just how high and mighty this Sky outfit see themselves, AND how hard the fall is from those celestial heights.
Can't really place all the blame on poor Richie, as he went into this with good intentions and an aim to fight for The Pink in an honest manner.
Brailsford is a different story. He should shoulder the majority of the responsibility of this epic "bus crash".

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Tired of hearing about "bad luck". Went back and looked at the crash video, it was just not that bad. Not even any skin loss. The whole string of events just got in his head and he quit. I think thats why he is taking so much grief. Champions fight through the bad days. Sky in general seem to first try to stay upright and hit power meter numbers. When something goes against that plan they seem to crumble. Didn't Wiggans crash in the rain at Vuelta and just melt. Froome hit cbbles at TDF and appeared to be biking on ice and now Porte. Also thinkk that other teams have found their own "marginal gains" now strategy plays a bigger role.

Sir Wiggo's rain issues were in the Giro ('13). Froome didn't even make it to the cobbles.

 

[BYOP88]

Re:

Maybe i didn't follow his early career enough, but what had Richie Porte done before this Giro to be considered as a real contender for Giro?

In his first GT ride he came 7th in the 2010 Giro. *(see below)* So that means for some people he is a GT GC guy.






*(He gained a lot of time from being in a break)*

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re:

Based on RP's record so far, GTs are too much for him as a team leader. He is a great support rider for GTs, and can win most one week stage races which can make a great career for him. RP, rest up, win du Dauphine, and pull CF around France in July.

This is not even really an issue for debate. Richie has been a solid domestique in the past and excelled in one week stage races.

The reason why he continues to set the forum on fire is all the butthurt from fans of losers who cant beat Sky in the Tour.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Based on RP's record so far, GTs are too much for him as a team leader. He is a great support rider for GTs, and can win most one week stage races which can make a great career for him. RP, rest up, win du Dauphine, and pull CF around France in July.

This is not even really an issue for debate. Richie has been a solid domestique in the past and excelled in one week stage races.

The reason why he continues to set the forum on fire is all the butthurt from fans of losers who cant beat Sky in the Tour.

Sky has only won 2 Tour's with 2 different people. It's not like they've had one guy who is consistently dominant. They haven't been successful enough for fans to be "buthurt" by what they've accomplished. The "hatred" you see from fans comes from somewhere else. Where? I don't know/don't care, I'm just certain it's not from all Sky's "success" in the Tour.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re:

Based on RP's record so far, GTs are too much for him as a team leader. He is a great support rider for GTs, and can win most one week stage races which can make a great career for him. RP, rest up, win du Dauphine, and pull CF around France in July.

Not sure I agree. Richie has problems being a domestique for Geraint Thomas. The size difference alone makes it hard to get a proper draft.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

A lot of the dislike towards Sky can be attributed to the overwhelming number of idiots in their fan base.

 

[Jimsnchz]

Re: Re:

Tired of hearing about "bad luck". Went back and looked at the crash video, it was just not that bad. Not even any skin loss. The whole string of events just got in his head and he quit. I think thats why he is taking so much grief. Champions fight through the bad days. Sky in general seem to first try to stay upright and hit power meter numbers. When something goes against that plan they seem to crumble. Didn't Wiggans crash in the rain at Vuelta and just melt. Froome hit cbbles at TDF and appeared to be biking on ice and now Porte. Also thinkk that other teams have found their own "marginal gains" now strategy plays a bigger role.

Sir Wiggo's rain issues were in the Giro ('13). Froome didn't even make it to the cobbles.

I was wrong about the race that Sir Bradley The Lion Hearted abandoned, Froome's exit came on the day of the first cobbled stage, I guess technically he never made it to the cobbles.