Richmond 2015 World Championships, Sep 19-27

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

I don't understand why being an athlete precludes one from having an opinion. It's just a job. He's still a human and a citizen of Europe. Why can't he have an opinion.
People are always telling athletes/actors/musicians to shut it when it comes to politics and world events. I never understood that. Whatever their profession, they are still part of society.

And just because they are celebrities doesn't mean they should buy into their own hype and think that their opinion is worth more than anyone elses.

I absolutely hate it when I get fliers in the post from the political parties here and it often has some actor's picture on it, telling you (insert actor) says (insert party name) are the best for Britain's future.

Most of them (like 90% at least here in Britain) come from filthy rich families, go to private schools, never have to work a day in their lives and get into the movie industry because of the connections their parents have.

How does this qualify them to stand with politicians at rallies telling you who you should vote for.

Once in 2010 harry potter's picture was on the Lib Dem flier. What the *** does he know about politics? He got fast tracked to being a millionaire because some producers of a kids film decided when he was still in nappies that he looks a bit like what they imagine a character from a book would look like. And because of this he knows what people with real problems need from their politicians?

A few years ago ashley judd announced she was going to run for senate. She had 0 political experience and has 0 knowledge of the kind of problems ordinary people have to live with. She's been insulated from pretty much all the world's problems since she got paid millions to show of her body in a few films decades ago. A few decades living in mansions partying up and now she thinks, now that middle age is here, why not have some fun and get into politics. Too famous to work her way up, through local councils and all that boring nonesence, nah *** having to actually work for it, she wants to go straight to the top - national senator. So she announces she's going to run for Senate in I think it was Missouri.

So what happens. Well on the other hand you have guys and girls who when Ashley Judd was partying on yachts, went to college, did work experience, did work, worked their way up through local councils and all the other hard grafts. Had to get mortgages had to pay off their college, negotiate debts etc. And after 20 years of hard work they can finally see their reward - a once in a lifetime shot at a Senate seat, suddenly some entitled Valley girl swoons in from California and takes it from them.

Its not enough for these people to just take millions for a job anyone could do. They just can't help themselves from inserting themselves into the political side of it all too. The arrogance is astounding.

 

[fauniera]

Re: Re:

So what happens. Well on the other hand you have guys and girls who when Ashley Judd was partying on yachts, went to college, did work experience, did work, worked their way up through local councils and all the other hard grafts. Had to get mortgages had to pay off their college, negotiate debts etc. And after 20 years of hard work they can finally see their reward - a once in a lifetime shot at a Senate seat, suddenly some entitled Valley girl swoons in from California and takes it from them.

Seriously? Are you saying that senators in the US are NOT coming from filthy rich families, went to private schools, and never had to work a day in their lives?

 

[hrotha]

Perhaps it's not arrogance, but rather a sense that you have the privilege to have a platform to speak out from and shouldn't let it go to waste. Like with many punk bands.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

So what happens. Well on the other hand you have guys and girls who when Ashley Judd was partying on yachts, went to college, did work experience, did work, worked their way up through local councils and all the other hard grafts. Had to get mortgages had to pay off their college, negotiate debts etc. And after 20 years of hard work they can finally see their reward - a once in a lifetime shot at a Senate seat, suddenly some entitled Valley girl swoons in from California and takes it from them.

Seriously? Are you saying that senators in the US are NOT coming from filthy rich families, went to private schools, and never had to work a day in their lives?

lol fair point. Some do. Some are just the sons of a previous senator in that seat so get it for free too.

Some don't though. Most do have to make their way up though. Build up a profile, spend some years in the wilderness. Its only actors and The Kennedies (and maybe Clintons) who can go after any political position they feel like.

 

[Miburo]

You think actors have no talent? Saying anyone can do it is pretty rubbish unless you were talking about senators, although i think they've some talent but they don't do anything though.

 

[Afrank]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

Once in 2010 harry potter's picture was on the Lib Dem flier. What the **** does he know about politics? He got fast tracked to being a millionaire because some producers of a kids film decided when he was still in nappies that he looks a bit like what they imagine a character from a book would look like. And because of this he knows what people with real problems need from their politicians?

I'll have you know that the politics of the wizarding world are very complex and intricate. You don't defeat the dark lord by just remembering a couple spells! Well come to think of it, actually you do, but I'm sure they had to find some political solutions for dealing the the leftover death eaters afterwords! Or maybe they just decided to feed them all to dragons.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

So what happens. Well on the other hand you have guys and girls who when Ashley Judd was partying on yachts, went to college, did work experience, did work, worked their way up through local councils and all the other hard grafts. Had to get mortgages had to pay off their college, negotiate debts etc. And after 20 years of hard work they can finally see their reward - a once in a lifetime shot at a Senate seat, suddenly some entitled Valley girl swoons in from California and takes it from them.

Seriously? Are you saying that senators in the US are NOT coming from filthy rich families, went to private schools, and never had to work a day in their lives?

lol fair point. Some do. Some are just the sons of a previous senator in that seat so get it for free too.

Some don't though. Most do have to make their way up though. Build up a profile, spend some years in the wilderness. Its only actors and The Kennedies (and maybe Clintons) who can go after any political position they feel like.

I'm pretty sure Bill Clinton's upbringing wasn't of the priveleged sort. Hillary I'm not sure of.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

You think actors have no talent? Saying anyone can do it is pretty rubbish unless you were talking about senators, although i think they've some talent but they don't do anything though.

There are plenty of examples of people who never tried acting in their life getting a role for a film and managing perfectly fine. A few people have even got nominated for Oscars, (iirc the main Cambodian character in The Killing Fields). The Wire was about 50% people they just randomly took off the streets and many of them got major roles and then became actors afterwards. That Somalian Pirate film was another recent one where I read they just took some guy who had been a pirate, gave him thearter class for a few months and next thing you know he's the main character in a major hollywood blockbuster.

Think also of all the rappers and rock stars who become friends with directors and then have film careers spanning dozens of movies.

The examples of people who never tried acting until adulthood and then become major actors is endless.

Now imagine someone who's never been on a bike rocking up at the world championships and winning the gold?

Gold? They probably would be dropped before the feed zone finished.

see Sport is what a meritocracy looks lik. Its a place where only the best of the best make it and they have to spend their whole lives making sacrifices and training it.

Acting is different. You can spend your whole life being a builder, then if you know someone, become an actor at age 50 and be good at it.

Its all about connections. And being perceived as pretty/ handsome so the movie can be more successful among teenage girls.

I don't think there's a person in the world who, if given acting classes as a child wouldn't make it as an actor. Its all easily taught skills.

Cycling, or any sport, on the other hand, 99% of the world, even if you trained them from birth, still would never make it.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

So what happens. Well on the other hand you have guys and girls who when Ashley Judd was partying on yachts, went to college, did work experience, did work, worked their way up through local councils and all the other hard grafts. Had to get mortgages had to pay off their college, negotiate debts etc. And after 20 years of hard work they can finally see their reward - a once in a lifetime shot at a Senate seat, suddenly some entitled Valley girl swoons in from California and takes it from them.

Seriously? Are you saying that senators in the US are NOT coming from filthy rich families, went to private schools, and never had to work a day in their lives?

lol fair point. Some do. Some are just the sons of a previous senator in that seat so get it for free too.

Some don't though. Most do have to make their way up though. Build up a profile, spend some years in the wilderness. Its only actors and The Kennedies (and maybe Clintons) who can go after any political position they feel like.

I'm pretty sure Bill Clinton's upbringing wasn't of the priveleged sort. Hillary I'm not sure of.

True, before 1992.

I mentioned Clintons because a) Hillary swooped in for the New York seat in 2000 and b) everyone knows Chelsea can get any seat she wants at the drop of a hat.

 

[the delgados]

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

 

[Jspear]

I don't even need to go into the cafe now to read about politics. Great!

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

But not everyone is sensible enough to discern informed and uninformed comments.

 

[DonEsteban]

Re: Re:

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

But not everyone is sensible enough to discern informed and uninformed comments.

Yes, so the big brother should decide who can say what ... because we should not be asked to use out small stupid mindsto discern informed and uninformed comments ... and only the big smart politicians should speak about politics, as they are the ones with deep insight ... yes, Yes, YES!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

Btw.. I was there in Richmond, and when Sagan attacked the entire crowd was chanting 'SAGAN..SAGAN...SAGAN"... He was definitely the most popular rider amongst the crowd by far. All day long you could hear people asking "Have you seen Sagan? Have you gotten a picture of Sagan?"

H.L. Mencken "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the public"

Look, I know he's popular. So was Friends, so are One Direction. I already know I'm swimming across the tide.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

But not everyone is sensible enough to discern informed and uninformed comments.

Yes, so the big brother should decide who can say what ... because we should not be asked to use out small stupid mindsto discern informed and uninformed comments ... and only the big smart politicians should speak about politics, as they are the ones with deep insight ... yes, Yes, YES!

I'd like entertainment and politics to occupy different spheres of civil society. Any serious person would recognise that as an anti-totalitarian stance.

 

[DonEsteban]

Re: Re:

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

But not everyone is sensible enough to discern informed and uninformed comments.

Yes, so the big brother should decide who can say what ... because we should not be asked to use out small stupid mindsto discern informed and uninformed comments ... and only the big smart politicians should speak about politics, as they are the ones with deep insight ... yes, Yes, YES!

I'd like entertainment and politics to occupy different spheres of civil society. Any serious person would recognise that as an anti-totalitarian stance.

Uhm, and how do you plan to achieve that?

Politics is nowadays more about show and perception than reality.

Its about as realistic as my wish to get rid of all advertising... surely Kittel and Degenkolb are the experts on hair care

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I'd like entertainment and politics to occupy different spheres of civil society. Any serious person would recognise that as an anti-totalitarian stance.

"Politics out of sport" has been the clarion call of very dodgy people down through the years. Sport is part of society and therefore in various ways, directly and indirectly, it involves politics.

 

[Andre.J]

The Belgian team must be really down on themselves. In my opinion, Gilbert should have stuck to GVA's wheel just like Bossan hagen did. Gilbert could then have launched himself at Sagan, and then it would have been a different ending.....maybe

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

But not everyone is sensible enough to discern informed and uninformed comments.

Yes, so the big brother should decide who can say what ... because we should not be asked to use out small stupid mindsto discern informed and uninformed comments ... and only the big smart politicians should speak about politics, as they are the ones with deep insight ... yes, Yes, YES!

I'd like entertainment and politics to occupy different spheres of civil society. Any serious person would recognise that as an anti-totalitarian stance.

Uhm, and how do you plan to achieve that?

Politics is nowadays more about show and perception than reality.

Its about as realistic as my wish to get rid of all advertising... surely Kittel and Degenkolb are the experts on hair care

I don't plan to achieve it. I post on an internet forum, I'm not Kofi Annan.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

I'd like entertainment and politics to occupy different spheres of civil society. Any serious person would recognise that as an anti-totalitarian stance.

"Politics out of sport" has been the clarion call of very dodgy people down through the years. Sport is part of society and therefore in various ways, directly and indirectly, it involves politics.

I'm sure many other rather mild opinions have too. Some dodgy people have been vegetarians.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I'm sure many other rather mild opinions have too. Some dodgy people have been vegetarians.

Yes, but vegetarianism has not chiefly been pushed as a way of justifying backhanded support for apartheid. That's the most famous issue where "politics out of sport" has been raised. The notion that sport could exist entirely outside of politics is naive utopianism in the first place, but most of those who argue for it are neither utopian nor naive. They have been cynics who want to avoid having to take a stance against horrific regimes or in some other way want to support an unpleasant status quo without having to openly justify their views.

 

[Volderke]

Comparing Sagan to One direction etc. Seriously again?

It's a bike race. It's called the WC. And Sagan was one level above GvA and Hagen. And GvA and Hagen were one level above the rest. So Sagan was 2 levels better than anybody else. It's not about taste, it's about the numbers. And it's clear that Sagan has the numbers. I couldn't care less about his attitude when he was still a kid and grabbed women's buttocks (his fan base among women is enormous, so clearly they don't care), and I couldn't care less about his level of English, his ugly voice or his idiotic Wolf of Wallstreet gesture. I care about the way he takes curves, the power that comes out of his legs, even seated, and the way he sprinted up a 19% hill like it was just another speed bump.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

Just want to quickly chime in to take issue with the notion that athletes/actors should keep their yaps shut.
That's total nonsense.
They can say whatever the hell they want.
It's up to everyone else to decide whether their words have merit.

But not everyone is sensible enough to discern informed and uninformed comments.

Yes, so the big brother should decide who can say what ... because we should not be asked to use out small stupid mindsto discern informed and uninformed comments ... and only the big smart politicians should speak about politics, as they are the ones with deep insight ... yes, Yes, YES!

I'd like entertainment and politics to occupy different spheres of civil society. Any serious person would recognise that as an anti-totalitarian stance.

I'm with you on the anti-totalitarian bit, but I fail to grasp how an athlete speaking their mind equates to what you suggest.
Entertainers and politicians have at least one thing in common: They are human beings. Regardless of someone's status, they have a right to voice their opinion in a democratic society. I could be totally misreading this, but to suggest that someone shouldn't speak means to me that one doesn't believe in democracy.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Btw.. I was there in Richmond, and when Sagan attacked the entire crowd was chanting 'SAGAN..SAGAN...SAGAN"... He was definitely the most popular rider amongst the crowd by far. All day long you could hear people asking "Have you seen Sagan? Have you gotten a picture of Sagan?"

H.L. Mencken "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the public"

Look, I know he's popular. So was Friends, so are One Direction. I already know I'm swimming across the tide.

I'm sorry, but really...

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

I'm sure many other rather mild opinions have too. Some dodgy people have been vegetarians.

Yes, but vegetarianism has not chiefly been pushed as a way of justifying backhanded support for apartheid. That's the most famous issue where "politics out of sport" has been raised. The notion that sport could exist entirely outside of politics is naive utopianism in the first place, but most of those who argue for it are neither utopian nor naive. They have been cynics who want to avoid having to take a stance against horrific regimes or in some other way want to support an unpleasant status quo without having to openly justify their views.

I also found it a more interesting race than I had predicted (this is a thread about the RRWC, isn't it?)