Richmond 2015 World Championships, Sep 19-27

[Billie]

8 guys in this year's top 15 where in the top 15 in 2014 aswel

 

[Volderke]

Re:

Sagan did some controversial stuff in the past, and to my knowledge he has suffered the consequences. IMO there's no need to devalue Sagan's performances by digging up these incidents. And as far as social discussions go, other parts of the forum might be more appropriate

This.

It goes beyond my understanding why a WC forum topic is being flooded by people having very strong negative personal opinions about the winner of this race. Go disperse your negative feelings in another topic, please? And on top of that, their are 'entitled to their opinion' by mods, just becasuse they happen to know something about cycling (???) and so are measured by different standards than other forum members here. Lamenting about your hate for a rider and the unimportant fact you don't like this sport anymore... on a cycling forum... just after the WC... c'mon?

From what Sagan has shown over the last few years, and the way he attacked... GvA tried to go full out, normally he is good enough to ditch everybody, but Sagan went 2 k/hr faster and kept going once up 23rd Street, in his typical style, seated on the saddle, guy must have incredible core stability to support those massive legs!
I am Belgian but this was very joyful to watch. I don't think EBH and GvA would have made it anyway, the peloton was at 3 seconds... The only posiibility for another attacker to win this, was to go in between Libby Hill and 23rd street .

 

[Tragic]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

Why shouldn't he air it in public? He hardly owes Gerrans the favour of silence. I have a sort of perverse respect for Gerrans deep felt conviction that it is immoral for him to take a pull for anyone, including himself, but he can hardly expect others to avoid mentioning it.

I guess I feel that team issues should stay in the team. A far nobler public response would have been to thank his teammates for contributing to his Silver medal, and deal with the issue privately. We have no way of knowing if Gerrans even had the legs to do anything differently.

 

[Sasquatch]

People are surprised that Gerrans is an arsehole? He's been like that for his entire career.

 

[The Hitch]

While i get why Ls doesn't like Sagan, sport is, and has always been, full of extremely unpleasant people. Cycling is no different. Just thinking back over the last 20 years, so many spineless liars and bullies. Many far worse than sagan. Even some of the "nice guys" turn out to be dicks if you just look closer.
Sagan seems to me like a misguided youth. He's done wrong things, we all know. I also think he takes his defeats on the chin well and races admirably (doesn't expect others to do it for him). There's way worse in our sport though.
Is this the straw that broke the camels back?

Anyway, as I always say, it's good if people you don't like win in sport. It recreates the experience of going through a personal loss or failure, without recreating the actual consequences.

And it can also help break that false romanticism for the sport, especially with cycling which with it's whole appeal to "fighting the pain", the great outdoors", "normal salaries" does well to convince many of us it's something more than just a business, full of people who would do anything to get ahead in the world.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Italy did not win a single WC/Monument since 2008.

After the razzia of victories early this century, that's quite refreshing.
Bettini was their last true leader. I believed Cunego was perfect for the job but he disappeared slowly on one-day races.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Ok, I'm seriously worried about netserk now. 450 posts in the month of July, and radio silence ever since.

There is no way in hell that he would not come to the forum if he found out Sagan is world champion.

Most definately odd. He didn't act like he was fed up with the forum as well.
Hope it's nothing serious...

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

He played it perfectly. Waited until the crucial moment.

Poor Libertine. He will have to live with Sagan as WC.

My interest in cycling has been waning for a long time now. If you notice, more and more of my posts are on course design and historical cycling and less and less is on as-it-happens current cycling. This is another nail in the coffin.

Well, get used to rewriting your history books because you will be hearing about this guy for a while.

Advise, just stick to woman's cycling and your obsession with Katarzyna Niewiadoma, because you no longer have anything valuable to contribute to the current elite men peloton discussion.

Don't be stupid. We all have riders we like or dislike, love or loathe. Sagan provides more reasons to love or hate him than most riders. Either way, anyone's attitude to one rider is hardly so important that it means they have nothing valuable to contribute to the discussion.

While I respect his knowledge and passion for cycling, his endless bashing without any reasoning is pointless and has no discussion value.

While I'm not being shy of having strong opinions either, I'm capable of providing reasons behind my opinions while he is just bashing and complaining about everything without being able to have normal discussion with anyone on this forum.

LS frustates me incredibly with his overreacting toward Sagan's attitude. It's like a frustated 15 year old girl, but he certainly gives his reasons why he dislikes Sagan. Those might be good or bad reasons, but he gives reasons and LS always gives his opinion with an explanation.
It's as if you are talking about yourself Jancouver tbh. Allthough you seem to think otherwise.

 

[Kwibus]

While i get why Ls doesn't like Sagan, sport is, and has always been, full of extremely unpleasant people. Cycling is no different. Just thinking back over the last 20 years, so many spineless liars and bullies. Many far worse than sagan. Even some of the "nice guys" turn out to be dicks if you just look closer.
Sagan seems to me like a misguided youth. He's done wrong things, we all know. I also think he takes his defeats on the chin well and races admirably (doesn't expect others to do it for him). There's way worse in our sport though.
Is this the straw that broke the camels back?

Anyway, as I always say, it's good if people you don't like win in sport. It recreates the experience of going through a personal loss or failure, without recreating the actual consequences.

And it can also help break that false romanticism for the sport, especially with cycling which with it's whole appeal to "fighting the pain", the great outdoors", "normal salaries" does well to convince many of us it's something more than just a business, full of people who would do anything to get ahead in the world.

Fully agree on your view on Sagan.
Also interesting view on matters after that. Didn't look at it that way, you have a point there.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

It's well known that Australia had two leaders during this race, and that gerrans and matthews aren't the best of team-mates.

The more interesting situation is where Matthews ends up in 2017 - You'd expect matthews to attract lucrative offers if he continues his rate of improvement in 2017.

Matthews is 10 years younger than Gerrans though, if anyone leaves you'd presume it would be Gerrans who'd probably be retiring by 2018.

Matthews also knows that whilst there may be some big $$ thrown at him by other teams; its questionable whether they'd be as good a "fit" for him personally OR whether he's have the same level of support in races/"security" with his race schedule.

Also wasn't he terribly homesick at Rabobank? I know they're not the ideal team for a non Dutch speaker, so maybe he wouldn't have the same feelings at an anglo team but it was probably still an offputting experience.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Ok, I'm seriously worried about netserk now. 450 posts in the month of July, and radio silence ever since.

There is no way in hell that he would not come to the forum if he found out Sagan is world champion.

Most definately odd. He didn't act like he was fed up with the forum as well.
Hope it's nothing serious...

This. I've often wondered 'where is Netserk'. Hopefully everything is ok with him!

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Ok, I'm seriously worried about netserk now. 450 posts in the month of July, and radio silence ever since.

There is no way in hell that he would not come to the forum if he found out Sagan is world champion.

Most definately odd. He didn't act like he was fed up with the forum as well.
Hope it's nothing serious...

This. I've often wondered 'where is Netserk'. Hopefully everything is ok with him!

I just hope he's in a better place.
In my imagination I can see him, in a better place, somewhere less cruel. watching the world championships.
Looking down on sagan.
Looking down on us.
Smiling.
Maybe, in this better place, he can manage to be happy, for a change.






And he is!!!!!!

https://twitter.com/Netserk93/status/648216504094298112

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

He didn't say he "won for" them. He just said he wanted to spare a mention for... well... whatever the hell he was talking about. Top athletes have a big audience hanging onto their words and they have the ability to draw attention to issues. If they want to speak about it, then good for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it's sincere.

And it was pretty admirable for him to try and say that despite not having the English to articulate his thoughts.

My thoughts exactly when I heared him talk. I was like wth are you talking about at first, but I noticed his sincerety regarding the matter which he couldn't really explain in english though, but he tried.

It was hard to tell with his English, but I thought he was making a statement about Europe not going down some road into massive war, rather than the speech being about the refugees. He talked about serious things in Europe changing, and someday not being able to have bike races anymore, so they needed instead to change for the better so we could still have bike races and enjoy life. (Something along those lines.) I took it more as looking at things like Ukraine,etc and tensions between countries, and not going down some road into another huge war. Refugees coming wouldn't mean there couldn't still be bike races; war would.

I could be wrong - he was definitely struggling to find words to say what he wanted in English, but that's how I read it: an anti-war statement.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

He didn't say he "won for" them. He just said he wanted to spare a mention for... well... whatever the hell he was talking about. Top athletes have a big audience hanging onto their words and they have the ability to draw attention to issues. If they want to speak about it, then good for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it's sincere.

And it was pretty admirable for him to try and say that despite not having the English to articulate his thoughts.

My thoughts exactly when I heared him talk. I was like wth are you talking about at first, but I noticed his sincerety regarding the matter which he couldn't really explain in english though, but he tried.

It was hard to tell with his English, but I thought he was making a statement about Europe not going down some road into massive war, rather than the speech being about the refugees. He talked about serious things in Europe changing, and someday not being able to have bike races anymore, so they needed instead to change for the better so we could still have bike races and enjoy life. (Something along those lines.) I took it more as looking at things like Ukraine,etc and tensions between countries, and not going down some road into another huge war. Refugees coming wouldn't mean there couldn't still be bike races; war would.

I could be wrong - he was definitely struggling to find words to say what he wanted in English, but that's how I read it: an anti-war statement.

That were my thoughts as well. It was about even bigger problems. Russia vs Europe, increasing tension again. etc.
Ofcourse millions of refugees coming into Europe doesn't help stability either, but we can't blame those refugees for looking for life to live instead of staying in Hell.
Either way... the world is a messed up place.

 

[Kwibus]

The dutch tactics were about keeping the initial break within reach in the final 100km, instead of that break having 8-10 minutes with Germany/Australia controlling the bunch and reeling them back in when they reach the final lap.
When the break was within reach in the final 80-100km then they knew the final would start with 70km to go instead of 15km to go. Making the race harder.
Glad they did it. Didn't earn anything with it, but I hope teams like Italy/Belgium realise this for next years.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

He didn't say he "won for" them. He just said he wanted to spare a mention for... well... whatever the hell he was talking about. Top athletes have a big audience hanging onto their words and they have the ability to draw attention to issues. If they want to speak about it, then good for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it's sincere.

And it was pretty admirable for him to try and say that despite not having the English to articulate his thoughts.

My thoughts exactly when I heared him talk. I was like wth are you talking about at first, but I noticed his sincerety regarding the matter which he couldn't really explain in english though, but he tried.

It was hard to tell with his English, but I thought he was making a statement about Europe not going down some road into massive war, rather than the speech being about the refugees. He talked about serious things in Europe changing, and someday not being able to have bike races anymore, so they needed instead to change for the better so we could still have bike races and enjoy life. (Something along those lines.) I took it more as looking at things like Ukraine,etc and tensions between countries, and not going down some road into another huge war. Refugees coming wouldn't mean there couldn't still be bike races; war would.

I could be wrong - he was definitely struggling to find words to say what he wanted in English, but that's how I read it: an anti-war statement.

That were my thoughts as well. It was about even bigger problems. Russia vs Europe, increasing tension again. etc.
Ofcourse millions of refugees coming into Europe doesn't help stability either, but we can't blame those refugees for looking for life to live instead of staying in Hell.
Either way... the world is a messed up place.

I wonder who could possibly have motivated Sagan to make a speech about a Russian psychopath.

 

[cineteq]

Re:

I hate cycling. **** this sport. **** everything to do with this sport. **** that guy and anyone who likes him and defends him.

Blaming Sagan for all your shortcomings is not going to bring back races from the past. Accept it, deal with it.

 

[VeloGirl]

Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

I don't understand why being an athlete precludes one from having an opinion. It's just a job. He's still a human and a citizen of Europe. Why can't he have an opinion.
People are always telling athletes/actors/musicians to shut it when it comes to politics and world events. I never understood that. Whatever their profession, they are still part of society.

 

[VeloGirl]

Major kudos to Gatis Smukulis (Latvia). He was way, way off the back for most of the final laps, struggling with no one else around - yet he finished. Many major names just gave up when they realized the race was over and DNF.

 

[Juan Pelota]

Is there a video of the sprint for second? All the vid I have seen just shows Sagan out front. I'd like to see how the medal sprint played out.

 

[Juan Pelota]

Btw.. I was there in Richmond, and when Sagan attacked the entire crowd was chanting 'SAGAN..SAGAN...SAGAN"... He was definitely the most popular rider amongst the crowd by far. All day long you could hear people asking "Have you seen Sagan? Have you gotten a picture of Sagan?"

 

[SeriousSam]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

I don't understand why being an athlete precludes one from having an opinion. It's just a job. He's still a human and a citizen of Europe. Why can't he have an opinion.
People are always telling athletes/actors/musicians to shut it when it comes to politics and world events. I never understood that. Whatever their profession, they are still part of society.

Celebrities distort public discussion and opinion because the amount of attention they receive and the weight given to their views is not proportionate to their insight and knowledge but to their fame which was gained through completely unrelated matters, like sports, acting or singing. It's deplorable whenever some celebrity opens their mouth about something and, at best, influences the tone and structure of the public discussion that happens in the media, and at worst, crowds out actual subject matter experts.

I really do wish celebs would just shut the *** up and not exploit their fame to influence things they shouldn't be able to on merit.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

Celebrities distort public discussion and opinion because the amount of attention they receive and the weight given to their views is not proportionate to their insight and knowledge but to their fame which was gained through completely unrelated matters, like sports, acting or singing. It's deplorable whenever some celebrity opens their mouth about something and, at best, influences the tone and structure of the public discussion that happens in the media, and at worst, crowds out actual subject matter experts.

I really do wish celebs would just shut the **** up and not exploit their fame to influence things they shouldn't be able to on merit.

+1 to the bolded. See also Jim Carrey and his thoughts on Vaccines.

Congrats to Sagan on his victory. He seems to do some of his best work in the USA.

 

[saganftw]

calm down,nobody will change his mind because sagan said we should be all friends,in grand scheme of things his speech was meaningless,well meant but meaningless - 40 years of soviet occupation,150 years of otoman occupation,forced hungarization in 19th century will not be erased from our DNA because of famous person views

it will take generations to change that

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I don't get all the hatred towards Sagan. I think he is probably the best thing to happen for cycling since Pantani.