Rider of the year 2018

[Red Rick]

Doesn't matter. All monuments this year were highly memorable solo wins from far out. Only Sanremo was within 10km but it's been 20 years it's been aaaaages since somebody soloed Sanremo home from the Poggio.

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Doesn't matter. All monuments this year were highly memorable solo wins from far out. Only Sanremo was within 10km but it's been 20 years it's been aaaaages since somebody soloed Sanremo home from the Poggio.

Sagan did it 12 months earlier. Maybe he got a tow for 200 metres all in all by Kwiatkowski but his performance was much more impressive, even if less surprising. In his book, he mentions it as the best race he ever lost.

I think Nibali's was less impressive and much more lucky, because nobody wanted to organise a chase in time and because of the motos.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

I kind of agree with this but besides the point you make of the whole season I rank the start list, the competition they face in big races. I mean, to me, Yates in the Giro against froome+Dumo was better than his victory at Vuelta..
Bala was awesome in the beginning of the year but outside Bianche+FW was not against lots of heavy contenders. His world was the hi light but his pursuit of that gold, the desire to keep going after, got more weight on my scale. Even Nibali had excellent performances in bigger races: MSR, was in the winning move at Flandres(!?), was going good in the Tour plus his spectacular came back at end of the season was top 5 to me .
Froome+Thomas shine 2-3 months out of the year. I agree those are very very big wins but that was it. Froome got the Tour podium because of the team(Bernal)..
This year is difficult to rank but i voted Dumo. 2 big GT podiums against the best, good Bianche, very good at L-B-L, plus silver ITT worlds and a unexpected 4th(!!) at worlds. So all year around...
but thats me

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

What did Yates do this season that Froome and Thomas didn't? Except win a less prestigious and less highly quality GT.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

I kind of agree with this but besides the point you make of the whole season I rank the start list, the competition they face in big races. I mean, to me, Yates in the Giro against froome+Dumo was better than his victory at Vuelta..
Bala was awesome in the beginning of the year but outside Bianche+FW was not against lots of heavy contenders. His world was the hi light but his pursuit of that gold, the desire to keep going after, got more weight on my scale. Even Nibali had excellent performances in bigger races: MSR, was in the winning move at Flandres(!?), was going good in the Tour plus his spectacular came back at end of the season was top 5 to me .
Froome+Thomas shine 2-3 months out of the year. I agree those are very very big wins but that was it. Froome got the Tour podium because of the team(Bernal)..
This year is difficult to rank but i voted Dumo. 2 big GT podiums against the best, good Bianche, very good at L-B-L, plus silver ITT worlds and a unexpected 4th(!!) at worlds. So all year around...
but thats me

Dumoulin was 21st in SB and 15th in LBL. Hardly earth-shattering performances?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

I kind of agree with this but besides the point you make of the whole season I rank the start list, the competition they face in big races. I mean, to me, Yates in the Giro against froome+Dumo was better than his victory at Vuelta..
Bala was awesome in the beginning of the year but outside Bianche+FW was not against lots of heavy contenders. His world was the hi light but his pursuit of that gold, the desire to keep going after, got more weight on my scale. Even Nibali had excellent performances in bigger races: MSR, was in the winning move at Flandres(!?), was going good in the Tour plus his spectacular came back at end of the season was top 5 to me .
Froome+Thomas shine 2-3 months out of the year. I agree those are very very big wins but that was it. Froome got the Tour podium because of the team(Bernal)..
This year is difficult to rank but i voted Dumo. 2 big GT podiums against the best, good Bianche, very good at L-B-L, plus silver ITT worlds and a unexpected 4th(!!) at worlds. So all year around...
but thats me

I can see this (plus you are looking at the whole season). Nibali got derailed with that injury. Even though Dumo didn't win much I do understand why some have picked him as their choice for rider of the year.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

What did Yates do this season that Froome and Thomas didn't? Except win a less prestigious and less highly quality GT.

What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races. (However I may also be thinking of some of Adam's races as well).

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

It' is the most ridiculous opinion I've ever read here.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

What did Yates do this season that Froome and Thomas didn't? Except win a less prestigious and less highly quality GT.

What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races.

But then what is the point of this discussion?

Then people could begin saying things like "I only count races with an even number of kilometres as prestigious", "for me, only the fourth stage of a race is worth something" or "only stage races with blue leaders' jerseys count" or other nonsense.

ALL the biggest riders in the world aspire to be at their best in the Tour because it's the biggest race on the calendar, and if you discount that fact, good for you, but then you can't participate in a meaningful discussion about the best riders of the season, because the foundation you base your opinions on are fundamentally different than everybody else, rendering the discussion void.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

+1

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

Your prestige to Tour is your personal opinion which you are entitled. I just don't think many here agrees on that. Especially when it actually fits to your biased agenda.

I don't like Yates, Thomas nor Froome. But I still don't have a problem to admit they were the Top 3.

I do have Yates in my top 3 but Froome and Thomas aren't even close as they did nothing outside of those 3 races. Yes I do value the classics more than the GTs. To me the GTs should not hold anymore weight and esp not the Tour. To me consistency throughout the season is much much more important which is why I rank Sagan very high on my list even if he didn't have the season this year he had last year.

What did Yates do this season that Froome and Thomas didn't? Except win a less prestigious and less highly quality GT.

What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races.

But then what is the point of this discussion?

Then people could begin saying things like "I only count races with an even number of kilometres as prestigious", "for me, only the fourth stage of a race is worth something" or "only stage races with blue leaders' jerseys count" or other nonsense.

ALL the biggest riders in the world aspire to be at their best in the Tour because it's the biggest race on the calendar, and if you discount that fact, good for you, but then you can't participate in a meaningful discussion about the best riders of the season, because the foundation you base your opinions on are fundamentally different than everybody else, rendering the discussion void.[/quote]


But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

It' is the most ridiculous opinion I've ever read here.

Weighting GTs higher than any other race is a ridiculous opinion.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

Yes, I gathered that, but seeing as you are the only person in the world with that opinion, you can't participate in a meaningful discussion on the matter as others who consider the Tour de France (where all the best riders participate at the peak of their condition) a bigger race than Tour of California (where tertiary GC riders begin ramping up their form for later goals) and thus puts more weight on a Tour victory than a Tour of California victory will have a completely different set of observations to draw from in order to determine who had the best season.

It's quite surreal that this needs to be explained.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Please tell me what Thomas and Froome did outside of the Giro, Tour and Dauphine? I'm sorry but I do NOT put any of those races over any of the other WT races on the calendar. To me the Tour ranks well below most of the other WT races. Heck I personally put a few continental races over the Tour just because I happen to like them better.
As Tobydawq said Valverde was dominant in the first 3 months of the season. Possibly even more dominant than Quickstep as a team were at that point in the season. No one else in the peloton can say that for any time frame.

It' is the most ridiculous opinion I've ever read here.

Weighting GTs higher than any other race is a ridiculous opinion.

Well, it's an opinion shared by pretty much everyone involved in professional cycling. Sponsors, riders, coaches, most fans...

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

@Koronin.. I hope it wasn't done on purpose:

@tobydawq didn't say:
"What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races."

You did it.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

Yes, I gathered that, but seeing as you are the only person in the world with that opinion, you can't participate in a meaningful discussion on the matter as others who consider the Tour de France (where all the best riders participate at the peak of their condition) a bigger race than Tour of California (where tertiary GC riders begin ramping up their form for later goals) and thus puts more weight on a Tour victory than a Tour of California victory.

It's quite surreal that this needs to be explained.

GT win (doesn't matter which one) should not be weighted more than any other WT win for who the best rider over the course of the entire season was. Esp when a rider only did well in 2 or 3 total races.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

Yes, I gathered that, but seeing as you are the only person in the world with that opinion, you can't participate in a meaningful discussion on the matter as others who consider the Tour de France (where all the best riders participate at the peak of their condition) a bigger race than Tour of California (where tertiary GC riders begin ramping up their form for later goals) and thus puts more weight on a Tour victory than a Tour of California victory.

It's quite surreal that this needs to be explained.

GT win (doesn't matter which one) should not be weighted more than any other WT win for who the best rider over the course of the entire season was. Esp when a rider only did well in 2 or 3 total races.

Yes, of course it should!

 

[Koronin]

Re:

@Koronin.. I hope it wasn't done on purpose:

@tobydawq didn't say:
"What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races."

You did it.

No it wasn't done on purpose if you are talking my mixing up Adam and Simon Yates. It's not that hard to do.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

@Koronin.. I hope it wasn't done on purpose:

@tobydawq didn't say:
"What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races."

You did it.

No it wasn't done on purpose if you are talking my mixing up Adam and Simon Yates. It's not that hard to do.

Of course I'm not talking about A/S Yates.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

@Koronin.. I hope it wasn't done on purpose:

@tobydawq didn't say:
"What exactly did Froome and Thomas do outside of the Tour/Giro/Duaphine? Obviously you missed that I consider the Tour LOWER than most other races on the calendar and consider Catalonia and T-A and P-N the SAME as the Duaphine.

Yates was there in other races."

You did it.

No it wasn't done on purpose if you are talking my mixing up Adam and Simon Yates. It's not that hard to do.

He is talking about how you in your previous post made it look like I was the one saying how the Tour is the least significant race on the WorldTour because you couldn't edit your post properly after having been told that you couldn't have more than five quotes inside each other.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

Yes, I gathered that, but seeing as you are the only person in the world with that opinion, you can't participate in a meaningful discussion on the matter as others who consider the Tour de France (where all the best riders participate at the peak of their condition) a bigger race than Tour of California (where tertiary GC riders begin ramping up their form for later goals) and thus puts more weight on a Tour victory than a Tour of California victory.

It's quite surreal that this needs to be explained.

GT win (doesn't matter which one) should not be weighted more than any other WT win for who the best rider over the course of the entire season was. Esp when a rider only did well in 2 or 3 total races.

Yes, of course it should!

But it shouldn't. For rider of the year, that means the rider needs to have competed all season and done well all season.

Sagan is never going to win a GT and what he does shouldn't be penalized because of that. Same for GVA (although he didn't have a great year this year).

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

Yes, I gathered that, but seeing as you are the only person in the world with that opinion, you can't participate in a meaningful discussion on the matter as others who consider the Tour de France (where all the best riders participate at the peak of their condition) a bigger race than Tour of California (where tertiary GC riders begin ramping up their form for later goals) and thus puts more weight on a Tour victory than a Tour of California victory.

It's quite surreal that this needs to be explained.

GT win (doesn't matter which one) should not be weighted more than any other WT win for who the best rider over the course of the entire season was. Esp when a rider only did well in 2 or 3 total races.

Yes, of course it should!

But it shouldn't. For rider of the year, that means the rider needs to have competed all season and done well all season.

Sagan is never going to win a GT and what he does shouldn't be penalized because of that. Same for GVA (although he didn't have a great year this year).

He isn't.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

But different people have different opinions. I just don't place any more value on the Tour than I do say California (which is a race I like). I would place Sagan's Paris-Roubiax win at least equal to Thomas' Tour win.

Yes, I gathered that, but seeing as you are the only person in the world with that opinion, you can't participate in a meaningful discussion on the matter as others who consider the Tour de France (where all the best riders participate at the peak of their condition) a bigger race than Tour of California (where tertiary GC riders begin ramping up their form for later goals) and thus puts more weight on a Tour victory than a Tour of California victory.

It's quite surreal that this needs to be explained.

GT win (doesn't matter which one) should not be weighted more than any other WT win for who the best rider over the course of the entire season was. Esp when a rider only did well in 2 or 3 total races.

Yes, of course it should!

But it shouldn't. For rider of the year, that means the rider needs to have competed all season and done well all season.

Sagan is never going to win a GT and what he does shouldn't be penalized because of that. Same for GVA (although he didn't have a great year this year).

He isn't.[/quote]


But if a Tour win has more weight than by definition he is penalized.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

But if a Tour win has more weight than by definition he is penalized.

No. And now you have quoted me for something I haven't said again. Stop that.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Doesn't matter. All monuments this year were highly memorable solo wins from far out. Only Sanremo was within 10km but it's been 20 years it's been aaaaages since somebody soloed Sanremo home from the Poggio.

Sagan did it 12 months earlier. Maybe he got a tow for 200 metres all in all by Kwiatkowski but his performance was much more impressive, even if less surprising. In his book, he mentions it as the best race he ever lost.

I think Nibali's was less impressive and much more lucky, because nobody wanted to organise a chase in time and because of the motos.

But here's the problem with that: Sagan didn't win that race, whereas Nibali did. So Sagan didn't successfully solo home from the Poggio. We may as well count Cancellara's one in 2012 then, since he basically rode that all the way to the finish with absolutely no help from Gerrans. And if we're counting great rides as memorable solo wins even if they didn't win, then Jürgen Roelandts was rider of the year 2015 for Gent-Wevelgem alone.