Riders who curiously did badly in certain types of races

[YavorD]

Although it's really obvious example and he had great results, how on earth Sagan didn't win MSR?
I mean, is there a single race in the calendar more or even similarly suited to a certain rider, than MSR for Sagan?

 

[Wvv]

Although it's really obvious example and he had great results, how on earth Sagan didn't win MSR?
I mean, is there a single race in the calendar more or even similarly suited to a certain rider, than MSR for Sagan?

Same with Boonen there, and even more with Boonen and the Omloop (which then again also kinda counts for Sagan).

 

[Leinster]

Although it's really obvious example and he had great results, how on earth Sagan didn't win MSR?
I mean, is there a single race in the calendar more or even similarly suited to a certain rider, than MSR for Sagan?

I think this is for a different thread of “Riders who couldn’t win this particular race despite being really good at it,” which would include Argentin at MSR, GvA and Kelly at de Ronde, Criquielion at Liege, Maertens at Roubaix, Indurain at the Vuelta, Purito at any GT, etc etc.

By almost any standard (except, obviously, actually winning it) Sagan has a phenomenal record in San Remo. His reasons for not actually crossing the line first vary from bad tactics, bad luck, lack of team support and, ok, very occasionally, just not having the legs.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Bettiol never has done anything in the Ardennes classics, you'd expect a sub 70kg classics rider like him to be competitive in AGR. If he climbs like he did this year at the Giro and the Olympics he could even do well in a race like LBL.

I know that he has been really good only for about 3 seasons, but for being such a versatile stagehunter (and even competitive in some shorter stage races) Felline has never done a lot as a one day racer, despite his endurance being pretty good (in gts he was always at his best on the hardest mountain stages).

 

[skippo12]

Kim Kirchen in Liege. Only has one top ten result in monuments. One of the best uphill sprinters in smaller stage races and GTs. Could basically do it all. Climb, TT, sprint.
And it´s not about him not peaking forthose kind of races. He even won the Fleche Wallone in 2008 (finished 2nd in 05). And followed it up with a 12th place in Liege.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Colombia at the Worlds, especially on hilly circuits.

They always seem to underperform.

 

[Red Rick]

Mikel Landa in La Vuelta.

 

[roundabout]

To be fair, of the 2 Vueltas he did post the GC breakthrough, he crashed and lost all GC chances in 2015 (although, imo he wasn't really flying before the crash) and was simply short of form because of injuries this year.

 

[Ulle97]

How did Roberto Heras never contend for the Tour de France??? For years he absolutely smoked the field in the Vuelta but couldn't do it in the Tour.... I know in 01, 02 he was a servant to Lance but in 04,05 he was nowhere to be seen.

 

[Nirvana]

How did Roberto Heras never contend for the Tour de France??? For years he absolutely smoked the field in the Vuelta but couldn't do it in the Tour.... I know in 01, 02 he was a servant to Lance but in 04,05 he was nowhere to be seen.

Unfriendly routes for the climbers back then, the first ten days of long flat stages were really good to take a toll on climbers, even if people always "forget" to consider that. In the same period also Simoni was always crap even when was flying at the Giro, Mayo lasted only a season as Tour GC contender and Gotti while in his prime had three DNF in a row. And was also more common for pure climbers to just work as domestiques in France, other than Heras think for example of Rubiera, Beltran, Piepoli, Guerini, Azevedo, nowadays with the Tour routes we see probably they would all try to ride for themselves. Not to mention the fact that a minor GC placement in France wasn't valued and searched so much like now so was more natural to focus on something else.

 

[roundabout]

Thing with Heras is that he was 5th in 2000 and was capable of destroying everyone other than Beloki on La Mongie in 2002 working for Armstrong.

While in 2004 and 2005 there was literally nothing from him in the Tour measured by GT winner standards.

 

[Ulle97]

Thing with Heras is that he was 5th in 2000 and was capable of destroying everyone other than Beloki on La Mongie in 2002 working for Armstrong.

While in 2004 and 2005 there was literally nothing from him in the Tour measured by GT winner standards.

I agree that in the 02 Tour he was arguably the best climber in the race. I remember even Armstrong said it in his book that he had difficulty matching the pace of Heras on the climbs. It's just amazing how his 04 and 05 showings were so poor..... he wasn't even on the radar as a threat.

 

[Finn84]

I think it's notable to mention here that Erik Zabel never won Champs-Elysees stage.

 

[Red Rick]

Bettiol never has done anything in the Ardennes classics, you'd expect a sub 70kg classics rider like him to be competitive in AGR. If he climbs like he did this year at the Giro and the Olympics he could even do well in a race like LBL.

I know that he has been really good only for about 3 seasons, but for being such a versatile stagehunter (and even competitive in some shorter stage races) Felline has never done a lot as a one day racer, despite his endurance being pretty good (in gts he was always at his best on the hardest mountain stages).

I think Bettiol is similar to Moscon. To me they seem a lot like jack of all trades with really good endurance but they then run into the problem that they're not specialized enough for the hilly monuments. Liege is still pretty much a 5 minute W/kg fest on RaF where Lombardia is often a 12-13 minute one.

 

[tobydawq]

I think Bettiol is similar to Moscon. To me they seem a lot like jack of all trades with really good endurance but they then run into the problem that they're not specialized enough for the hilly monuments. Liege is still pretty much a 5 minute W/kg fest on RaF where Lombardia is often a 12-13 minute one.

Didn't he basically match Pogacar on Mount Fuji?

 

[Red Rick]

Didn't he basically match Pogacar on Mount Fuji?

He was in the 2nd group over 2'30 behind the Van Aert-Pogacar group

 

[Alexandre B.]

He was in the 2nd group over 2'30 behind the Van Aert-Pogacar group

There were 14 riders in that front group after the Mikuni Pass, I think: Pogacar, Woods, McNulty, Van Aert, Bettiol, Carapaz, A. Yates, Uran, Mollema, Schachmann, Gaudu, Kwiatkowski, Fuglsang, Bennett

 

[Bonimenier]

There were 14 riders in that front group after the Mikuni Pass, I think: Pogacar, Woods, McNulty, Van Aert, Bettiol, Carapaz, A. Yates, Uran, Mollema, Schachmann, Gaudu, Kwiatkowski, Fuglsang, Bennett

Bettiol was indeed there. He dropped later due to cramps.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I think Bettiol is similar to Moscon. To me they seem a lot like jack of all trades with really good endurance but they then run into the problem that they're not specialized enough for the hilly monuments. Liege is still pretty much a 5 minute W/kg fest on RaF where Lombardia is often a 12-13 minute one.

Bettiol has great endurance, a strong engine (you don't ride someone like Cavagna down on hilly terrain unless you have that) and pretty good w/kg.
He has a rep for being rather lazy (pretty much stopped training on his TT bike for many years after winning the EC in the junior ranks), but he's talented.
I find it hard to call anyone who won the Rvv like he did a jack of all trades, he did 529W at 69kg on the whole O K when he went solo.

The efforts in a race like Amstel are of a similar length, so you'd expect him to do well in that race too.
He often seems to get cramps in the heat, that has happened at the Olympics and during the 2020 edition of Strade Bianche.

 

[tobydawq]

He was in the 2nd group over 2'30 behind the Van Aert-Pogacar group

That was hardly what I meant...

He was among the six strongest on the climb with Pogacar, Carapaz, Woods, McNulty and Kwiatkowski.

 

[Leinster]

I think it's notable to mention here that Erik Zabel never won Champs-Elysees stage.

I think that was already mentioned: the top 3 Green Jersey winners, Kelly, Zabel and Sagan have never won on the Champs.

Kelly and Zabel both won MSR multiple times, though.

 

[Mosul]

I think that was already mentioned: the top 3 Green Jersey winners, Kelly, Zabel and Sagan have never won on the Champs.

It was actually mentioned in a different thread, the "How did they never win it?" one. I remember because I'm the one who mentioned it.

 

[Vesica]

How did Roberto Heras never contend for the Tour de France??? For years he absolutely smoked the field in the Vuelta but couldn't do it in the Tour.... I know in 01, 02 he was a servant to Lance but in 04,05 he was nowhere to be seen.

You know the potion-which-can't-be-named-on-this-forum?

 

[Leinster]

It was actually mentioned in a different thread, the "How did they never win it?" one. I remember because I'm the one who mentioned it.

Not only that, I'm the OP of that thread.

 

[hayneplane]

It was actually mentioned in a different thread, the "How did they never win it?" one. I remember because I'm the one who mentioned it.

In one way it’s not as surprising as you first think when you consider how much deeper a Green Jersey winner has often had to go during the race hunting for points on all terrain compared to some of the pure sprinters who in the last week mostly spent their time just trying to stay within the time cut.