Riis

[hrotha]

For me, the BS started the moment Riis said the words "as a young rider" in this video. He was what, 32 when he won the Tour? And had only started showing some Tour-winning ability a few years before -- so 28? 29? So can we assume the doping -- or the serious doping, involving EPO injections -- started then?

How is 28 years old a "young" rider? He wants us to believe that at 28 he was still a young, naive, impressionable youth? I call BS.

Riis is such a practiced liar.

He started doping as a young rider. When he finally got on the EPO bandwagon, it was just another product. The most efficient one, but just another product in terms of morality.

 

[Ney the Viking]

no need to get tetchy about the slagging of an infamous son of Denmark

Huh? The post made zero sense, whomever was the topic. Yes I am interested because Riis has a vast influence in danish cycling, but i would have made the same response if a post with references taken out of the blue had been mentioned in another thread.

ps. props for usint tetchy, don't think i have seen that in an internet forum before.

pps. I would like to see Riis out of cycling, but only if all the other tainted era DS's gets the boot as well.

 

[Magnus]

If there's one thing pro cycling needs less of it's "reformed" dopers as DSs.

Do you prefer "unreformed"?

Or do you suggest to break up with the tradition that ex-riders become DSs?

 

[filipo]

He started doping as a young rider. When he finally got on the EPO bandwagon, it was just another product. The most efficient one, but just another product in terms of morality.

My impression is that he was speaking of injecting EPO specifically -- that was the moral moment, the hard decision for a young rider, poor poor Riis. So if you're correct, that he had been doping long before that decision, then it seems the earlier decision(s) to dope was taken lightly by Riis.

 

[goggalor]

Do you prefer "unreformed"?

Or do you suggest to break up with the tradition that ex-riders become DSs?

I would prefer reformed without the quotes, as opposed to "reformed" meaning "my entire team came clean so I had to as well", or "I wanted to make money off all my great doping stories so I wrote a book about them".

Or yeah, DSs who never took drugs in the first place, that would be the best.

 

[DominicDecoco]

My impression is that he was speaking of injecting EPO specifically -- that was the moral moment, the hard decision for a young rider, poor poor Riis. So if you're correct, that he had been doping long before that decision, then it seems the earlier decision(s) to dope was taken lightly by Riis.

How about actually reading his book, where there's a whole chapter about it, instead of just talking and making conclusions from 5 lines.

 

[filipo]

How about actually reading his book, where there's a whole chapter about it, instead of just talking and making conclusions from 5 lines.

How about being less of a [French word for shower]? The video to which I was referring is only as long as it is, and I referred to only what I saw in the video. Why in hell would I go out and buy Riis's book, thereby putting more money into Riis's pocket, thereby helping to insure this lying fatbag only gets more attention?
Again, from the video, my impression is that this he was stressed about his first injection of EPO, not any previous drug use. If you've got different information, feel free to share.

 

[silverrocket]

How about being less of a [French word for shower]? The video to which I was referring is only as long as it is, and I referred to only what I saw in the video. Why in hell would I go out and buy Riis's book, thereby putting more money into Riis's pocket, thereby helping to insure this lying fatbag only gets more attention?
Again, from the video, my impression is that this he was stressed about his first injection of EPO, not any previous drug use. If you've got different information, feel free to share.

Members of this forum are so often calling/hoping for strongly suspected dopers to come clean and help build a cleaner and more honest cycling culture, but when a famous TdF winner does so he still gets called a "lying fatbag" by a poorly informed forum yahoo who couldn't even be bothered to read the definitive book on Riis' side of the story.

 

[hrotha]

Members of this forum are so often calling/hoping for strongly suspected dopers to come clean and help build a cleaner and more honest cycling culture, but when a famous TdF winner does so he still gets called a "lying fatbag" by a poorly informed forum yahoo who couldn't even be bothered to read the definitive book on Riis' side of the story.

We're calling him a liar because he's not telling the whole truth. Any references to doping as a DS are absent, for example.

He's just admitting to what people already knew. Like Raskolnikov put it.

 

[silverrocket]

We're calling him a liar because he's not telling the whole truth. Any references to doping as a DS are absent, for example.

He's just admitting to what people already knew. Like Raskolnikov put it.

We didn't "know" that he doped until he admitted it, anymore than we will never "know" if Armstrong doped unless he admitted to it. He has not only admitted he, he speaks freely and honestly about it. I'm not nominating him for a Nobel Peace Prize or anything, just saying that some honesty is better than none. I'm also wondering that if a person like Armstrong ever did admit to a lifetime of doping and cheating his way to the TdF, TofSwitz, etc., would we appreciate that he was finally honest, or would we call him a lying scumbag because we suspected he might know more than he had admitted to?

 

[Eusebio Kino]

As long as the UCI and individual pro riders accept the quick list below(not even including doctors), cycling will be a facade of shameful doping allegations and cheats.

1. BMC -OCHOWICZ James (General Manager), LELANGUE John (DS)
2. Euskaltel -GONZALEZ DE GALDEANO (***.DS)
3. Katusha-HOLCZER Hans-Michael (Team Mgr), HENN Christian(DS), PIVA Valerio (DS), KONYCHEV Dmitri(***.DS), ZABEL Erik (***. DS)
4. OPQ-HOLM Brian(***.DS), PEETERS Wilfried(***. DS), STEELS Tom(***.DS)
5. Greenedge-WHITE Matthew(DS), LAPAGE Laurenzo (***.DS), STEPHENS Neil(***.DS), NARDELLO Daniele (***. DS)
6. Rabobank-BREUKINK Erik(DS), DEKKER Erik (***. DS)
7. Radioshack-BRUYNEEL Johan (GM), AZEVEDO José (***.DS), DEMOL Dirk
(***. DS), GALLOPIN Alain (***.DS)
8. Sky-YATES Sean (DS), ARVESEN Kurt-Asle (DS), DE JONGH S(***.DS)
9. SaxoB-RIIS Bjarne (DS), HOFFMAN T(***.DS), GUIDI Fabrizio(***.DS)

To mix Bjarne Riis with that group would be unfair. A fairer perspective would be, when and why Bjarne came out and admitted doping. What were the precursors to Bjarnes' admissions? Only then can a fair judgement on Bjarnes' sporting morals be made. Also it should be noted the quality, of his steeds, results and the positives found.

 

[filipo]

Members of this forum are so often calling/hoping for strongly suspected dopers to come clean and help build a cleaner and more honest cycling culture, but when a famous TdF winner does so he still gets called a "lying fatbag" by a poorly informed forum yahoo who couldn't even be bothered to read the definitive book on Riis' side of the story.

"Poorly informed"? Oh do tell, O All-Seeing Canadian!

If you think what Riis has done is called "coming clean", well -- let's just say you and I have different definitions of "poorly informed".

 

[fmk_RoI]

Some of you may appreciate this: http://cyclismas.com/2012/06/riishomon-a-heros-tale-part-4/

 

[fmk_RoI]

Festina sales rocketed after the 1998 scandal.

One day someone will be bored enough to properly debunk that. Festina sales continued their upward trajectory, but at a reduced rate. Yes, they went up. But not as much as they'd previously been going up.

 

[fmk_RoI]

For me, the BS started the moment Riis said the words "as a young rider" in this video. He was what, 32 when he won the Tour? And had only started showing some Tour-winning ability a few years before -- so 28? 29? So can we assume the doping -- or the serious doping, involving EPO injections -- started then?

How is 28 years old a "young" rider? He wants us to believe that at 28 he was still a young, naive, impressionable youth? I call BS.

Riis is such a practiced liar.

EPO use started 1992/3. Cortisone early 90s, prolly at Super U.

As for being a practiced liar, all sports people lie.

 

[Benotti69]

We didn't "know" that he doped until he admitted it, anymore than we will never "know" if Armstrong doped unless he admitted to it. He has not only admitted he, he speaks freely and honestly about it. I'm not nominating him for a Nobel Peace Prize or anything, just saying that some honesty is better than none. I'm also wondering that if a person like Armstrong ever did admit to a lifetime of doping and cheating his way to the TdF, TofSwitz, etc., would we appreciate that he was finally honest, or would we call him a lying scumbag because we suspected he might know more than he had admitted to?

Go watch the Alp stages of the TdF Riis won and you will see doping written in large on his face.

 

[silverrocket]

"Poorly informed"? Oh do tell, O All-Seeing Canadian!

If you think what Riis has done is called "coming clean", well -- let's just say you and I have different definitions of "poorly informed".

You were making a number of far-reaching assumptions, and a personal insult, based on a short bit Riis said to the media, while defiantly refusing to read the entire book Riis wrote on the subject. We can each only be as informed as Riis chooses (and he certainly hasn't told us all he knows about doping in cycling), yet you are CHOOSING to be less informed than you might be.

 

[Benotti69]

Some of you may appreciate this: http://cyclismas.com/2012/06/riishomon-a-heros-tale-part-4/

you allowed advertise in here....

 

[fmk_RoI]

you allowed advertise in here....

Well whether you are or not some may find value in this, whether they're never going to read the book or want a reason to go and read it: http://cyclismas.com/2012/06/review-of-riis-stages-of-light-and-dark-by-bjarne-riis/

 

[filipo]

You were making a number of far-reaching assumptions, and a personal insult, based on a short bit Riis said to the media, while defiantly refusing to read the entire book Riis wrote on the subject. We can each only be as informed as Riis chooses (and he certainly hasn't told us all he knows about doping in cycling), yet you are CHOOSING to be less informed than you might be.

You are right, and I feel awful. When I called Riis a "lying fatbag", that was a step too far. I wish to correct the record: Riis is not a lying fatbag, rather a fat lying ex-racer who was doped up to his enormous bald head and has only given the public enough detail to make him seem sympathetic. Which, I admit, is a nice gesture. But still BS.

Likewise, I feel that you overstepped when you called me "a poorly informed forum yahoo". That's MISTER Poorly Informed Forum Yahoo, please.