Rodriguez's time trial of his career!

[JimmyFingers]

most fishy is Valverde. He probably come to tour with a good conscience and thought cycling is get cleaner with Giro as an indicator. But got shocked and bombed by SKY performance. Well come back home, up his game play by SKY force. Wola, a new Valverde emerged in Vuelta without that crash, he would still be in red.

Its sorta beautiful how some in the forum blame Sky for other people's supposed doping

Actually why bother. This place reminds me of the Monty Python sketch of the Inquisition, without the element of surprise

 

[hrotha]

Its sorta beautiful how some in the forum blame Sky for other people's supposed doping

Actually why bother. This place reminds me of the Monty Python sketch of the Inquisition, without the element of surprise

The arms race in doping is a well-established phenomenon. I suggest you take a look at the spread of EPO in the early 90s.

 

[iZnoGouD]

altough the ITT suit him the whole thing it's still a bit suspicious for me
let's how he handles next stages

 

[JimmyFingers]

The arms race in doping is a well-established phenomenon. I suggest you take a look at the spread of EPO in the early 90s.

You know sometimes I think you all maybe right, but just really, really hope you're not.

I was just pointing at the irony of someone getting third and still the one demonised

 

[The Hitch]

most fishy is Valverde. He probably come to tour with a good conscience and thought cycling is get cleaner with Giro as an indicator. But got shocked and bombed by SKY performance. Well come back home, up his game play by SKY force. Wola, a new Valverde emerged in Vuelta without that crash, he would still be in red.

Did no one see that Valverde was wearing a watch with the Union Jack

Dear Sky fans. That is a joke, not me actually claiming to have found proof of a conspiracy

You know sometimes I think you all maybe right, but just really, really hope you're not.

Never let your emotions cloud your judgment

 

[Autobus]

You know sometimes I think you all maybe right, but just really, really hope you're not.

I was just pointing at the irony of someone getting third and still the one demonised

Except both we and the riders are not reacting to what Froome did in this race, but to what Sky did all year. I, at least, am appalled at what Sky did to the season, and the riders just want to have a chance to win.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm not sure Valverde is doing anything super surprising or necessarily super-dodgy here.

He was 20th at the Tour, didn't really figure after the big pile-up except when he won from the breakaway. Medium-mountains and sprints from small groups are Valverde's meat and drink, and what has he won so far here? Two 7-8km mountaintops (one of which was by a wheel-rim). He got a bit of a headstart thanks to a favourable Team Time Trial, and put in a good ITT where he still lost nearly a minute to Contador and 30 seconds to Froome. Valverde has long been good at mid-long ITTs when they're fairly hilly. Look up his ITT results over the years - he's pretty decent.

As to "Valverde is up to his old tricks again", we can't rule that out, but we must also bear in mind that he was closely monitored after Puerto so the chances are that whatever program he was on, it was relatively subtle compared to some; as a result it is probably easier to get back to that level microdosing or even fairly clean than had he been in full on Robobasso mode.

Rodríguez has long been a major talent who was rather underutilised at Caisse (7th in the Vuelta twice as a support guy), though admittedly his breakthrough (and Moreno's concurrent one) and seemingly continuous rise as a hilly threat after that (from good candidate to win to nailed on winner) is worrisome.

I see nothing entirely suspicious about today's ITT (in that it was one well suited to him, against a Contador shy of race days, a Froome that's just done the Tour and Olympics and bearing in mind the Vuelta is closer to the Tour than normal this year, and still losing out to Valverde), but I do have lingering memories of Ezequiel Mosquera's surprisingly decent ITT in 2010 in the back of my mind.

 

[The Hitch]

What i dont get about this thread, is why would Purito only start doping now (which is the assumption of him suddenly improving his tt).

He has been on Saunier Duval, Once, Katusha and also Valverdes leuitenant, as well as in recent years a top performer on the Spanish national team, and a top performer in general during the dodgy 2008-2010 years, during which he had no problem with any dopers.

So all of a sudden after finishing UCI world number 1, winning countless stages through the season and top performer in 1 day races he turns around and goes - "oh so thats how they do it" ?

 

[maxmartin]

What i dont get about this thread, is why would Purito only start doping now (which is the assumption of him suddenly improving his tt).

He has been on Saunier Duval, Once, Katusha and also Valverdes leuitenant, as well as in recent years a top performer on the Spanish national team, and a top performer in general during the dodgy 2008-2010 years, during which he had no problem with any dopers.

So all of a sudden after the Giro he turns around and goes - "oh so thats how they do it" ?

maybe there are some certain new things out there working especially well for some people. I am not entirely convinced they are just old tricks.

 

[Autobus]

What i dont get about this thread, is why would Purito only start doping now (which is the assumption of him suddenly improving his tt)....

I can think of a few plausible reasons.

1) He just might be frustrated winning only the second tier stage races and wants to win a grand tour, but he has to go that little bit extra to beat Froome and Sky's program.
2) All the attention is now on the Armstrong case. What a better time to do that little bit extra to win his national tour.
3) It's Spain, what does he have to lose. If Sky can do it, why not him?

And it may be just that marginal gain in the program rather than starting from scratch. It's not like given his team history he doesn't know what's up.

 

[Ferminal]

Yeh I'd agree that being able to handle aerobic climbs is far more surprising than improving his TT.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

You don't think that there is anything fishy about Rodriguez becoming a better overall GT rider?

I'll give you a hint, it's not all about the bike.

My gf asked me today if Rodriguez and Froome eat beef from the same place as contador... (she has no clue about cycling whatsoever) its was even more fun when she picked her fantasy tdf team..

Ohh well.. it might just be that Rodriguez got wings from the red jersey...


I also want to say that remember what I said during the tdf.. the Dark Ages are coming back..

 

[Dr.Sahl]

What i dont get about this thread, is why would Purito only start doping now (which is the assumption of him suddenly improving his tt).

He has been on Saunier Duval, Once, Katusha and also Valverdes leuitenant, as well as in recent years a top performer on the Spanish national team, and a top performer in general during the dodgy 2008-2010 years, during which he had no problem with any dopers.

So all of a sudden after finishing UCI world number 1, winning countless stages through the season and top performer in 1 day races he turns around and goes - "oh so thats how they do it" ?

If we have to make some theories around that, it could be that riders are just following the example of SKY.. its like global politics.. if one nation gets a missile the other nation needs to get two.

 

[TheEnoculator]

If I have to guess, I'd say Purito started juicing in this year's Giro. He was wearing pink for the longest time, and it was only the TT that was in his way. And he knew he had no chance against Hesjedal, so he juiced up, and did the best TT of his life. Still wasn't enough, but now he knows the benefits.

This TT was a confirmation for me that he's on juice. For a rider like him, you don't lose only a minute to a stronger TTer like Contador, especially in such a long TT.

 

[The Hitch]

If we have to make some theories around that, it could be that riders are just following the example of SKY.. its like global politics.. if one nation gets a missile the other nation needs to get two.

Im 100% on the side that sky (well wiggins anyway) are doping, but lets not make every thread about them.

Purito has had no mega transformation this year. He already had fantastic seasons last year and before, the only difference this year is he is managing his goals better - eg not burning out in Ardennes, not getting ill in Giro. In the giro competition was weaker anyway.

last year for Giro and Vuelta we were saying he could shine, and he underperformed in both- illness giro, exhaustion Vuelta. This year he got it right, no illness in giro, no exhaustion at vuelta, and he is bringing what we expect of him.

Mountains havent even hit anyway.

Besides if Rodriguez went through his career without doping, with the friends he has had and the teams he has been on, then that would require some sort of moral objection to the practise which should prevent him from doing it in August 2012 as much as it did before.

 

[The Hitch]

If I have to guess, I'd say Purito started juicing in this year's Giro. He was wearing pink for the longest time, and it was only the TT that was in his way. And he knew he had no chance against Hesjedal, so he juiced up, and did the best TT of his life. Still wasn't enough, but now he knows the benefits.

This TT was a confirmation for me that he's on juice. For a rider like him, you don't lose only a minute to a stronger TTer like Contador, especially in such a long TT.

He wasnt on the dope when he came 2nd in Liege, a race notorious for its winners? He wasnt on the dope when he came 2nd to Contador on Angliru, and when he finished with KOlobnev on the podium on one of the hardest worlds, or when he beat Contador on the muur, or when he beat Menchov Sanchez etc for 3rd on Tourmalet, or when he dropped all their asses and outsprinted Contador on Mende?

But when he beats far below par Scarponi, ott Basso, and Uran, for 2nd in a lightly raced Giro, that is doping?

 

[Autobus]

Besides if Rodriguez went through his career without doping, with the friends he has had and the teams he has been on, then that would require some sort of moral objection to the practise which should prevent him from doing it in August 2012 as much as it did before.

I don't assume he wasn't doping before now, I just think he's doing more or more effectively. Given his past teams there's no way I'd bet against gearing up then. I do think losing the Giro to Ryder in the final stage probably stung a lot, and he just didn't want it to happen like that again. And while I'll agree that this TT is more conducive to a climber's abilities than the final stage at the Giro, still all the riders were in full TT mode, down to disc wheels and Flash Gordon helmets. It was hardly like a TT on the Alpe d'Huez where you'd expect a purer climber to do so well.

 

[Sophistic]

sorry but this thread is a joke, Purito lost 40s over 13,5 flat km and the technical aspect of it even played into his hand, if it had been 13,5km straight he would have lost 50+sec, add the headwind of the Vuelta 11 ITT and he's losing as much as usual. The Giro 12 ITT was very technical as well and mostly inside the city (little wind).

 

[The Cobra]

This TT was probably designed with people like Purito in mind. They know they need to put in a TT of decent length but wanted it to cause the least possible damage to the Spanish guys like Purito, Valverde , Cobo etc. so they stick a big hill in the middle and make it very technical. Not surprising he did well really, since his TT's in the Giro were already a massive improvement on previous years.

 

[ebandit]

cooo...oool

Did no one see that Valverde was wearing a watch with the Union Jack

cooo....oool! it was large white plastic.............do you think it was a toywatch?

did you see alberto go?

apart from froome looking a little jaded times seemed fairly consistent with expectations

ie all 4 top riders were 'well prepared'

tony martin was well off the pace..........but why would he bust a gut on a course that did not suit him with no thoughts of the overall

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's just management. They don't list their medical staff for some reason.

Here it was:

http://www.katushateam.com/2012/eng/main.php?mod=staff

Just try that link, it somehow is gone, jumps to the main screen inmediately.

 

[sniper]

compelling stuff on Katusha here (sorry if it's been posted already):

http://bikerackheads.blogspot.de/2012/04/to-be-fast-you-must-live-fast.html

Exhibit A: Katusha's owner, Igor Makarov, heads the Russian cycling federation, recently became a sitting member of the UCI management committee, and made his billions as chairman of ITERA Russian gas (what else?) company.
(...)
Kolobnev's case has seen a reversal strangely coincident with Makarov's move to the UCI management committee.

"pappy", is that Joe Papp?

 

[_frost]

I don't know why a word sensationalism keeps spinning in my head. Somehow I wasn't surprised this thread appearing and at the same time sudden total lack of interest in Froome-thread...

 

[Mr.38%]

Seriously, Katusha was a mess before SW arrived. Bad bikes, bad tires, bad wheels, even worse rider positions. SW began working with the U23 team in 2011, Anton Vorobev improved significantly ever since.

During the Giro, SW rode to Italy with HED clincher wheels for the final ITT in the trunk which he tested two days before on the Büttgen Track. Unfortunately Purito believed in some obscure Italian or Spanish "Technician" and did everything wrong. Appearently he finally follows Weber's approach now.

SW is a narcistic freak but I see no hints of doping.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I don't know why a word sensationalism keeps spinning in my head. Somehow I wasn't surprised this thread appearing

I tend to agree. Just analyzing Rodriguez intervals there wasn't so much wrong with it. Lost 42 on the flat, that's normal, and put up a great climb and descent where he lost 11 seconds to Contador. Last few kilometres he also lost 6 seconds given the more flatness.

He certainly rode his balls of yesterday and he rides freakishly low!

SW is a narcistic freak but I see no hints of doping.

SW=Sebastian Weber from HTC?