Rodriguez's time trial of his career!

[Cyivel]

This is one of the more obvious cases of cheating for me.

 

[The Hitch]

The home crowd cheering for you gives you at least 5% - as we saw in the UK with the British track cyclists.

lol good one, as it reminds me of poster seriously arguing that.

 

[The Hitch]

Was wondering about that too: Froome is washed out from the double; Piti is superstrong in the double.
.

What is there to wonder about? There is absolutely nothing new about a rider who went lighter in a gt, being good in the second one. We saw it with Mollema last year. Until last year many contenders would ride the giro as prep for the tour.

The home crowd cheering for you gives you at least 5% - as we saw in the UK with the British track cyclists.

lol good one.

 

[cineteq]

in my opinion contador is a bit overrated and he has lowered his doping levels from 2009 so he is back closer to the other riders again add in his lay off i tihnk this is a normal performance from rodriguez

If anything this is closer to what I think it's happening.

 

[meat puppet]

@Fearless Greg Lemond: Thanks. I guess that 2 more minutes will lower the power numbers a bit. Perhaps in the 5,8-5,9 region?

I too agree with Palmerq and Cineteq, basically. Unless the climbing data numbers indicate otherwise, I think it is rather that Bert is lacking something (the ability to make an attack stick) rather han Jrod having gained an insane amount of extra.

But true enough, Rodriguez looks like a transformed rider nonetheless, as already the Giro proved.

 

[unsheath]

Looking at the VAM numbers will be misleading given that Contador shut down his attacks everytime Purito responded. Would have been some pretty high numbers if he got the gap early and went for it au bloc.

Still to my eye, agree that I've never seen Purito in this form before. The ability to effortlessly accellerate again and again under pressure from the best climber in the last 10 years. Doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[Ferminal]

So Contador is now climbing worse than Mosquera/Nibali 2010? Or I guess that should be climbing on par with Gesink/Menchov/Sanchez 2010.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Thanks. I guess that 2 more minutes will lower the power numbers a bit. Perhaps in the 5,8-5,9 region?

I came to the following:
Joachim R.:
58kg + 6,8kg bike
climb 15 kilometres
1140 metres elevation

E r g e b n i s

***#####7.6 % mittlere Steigung

***####20.7 km/h mittlere Geschwindigkeit

***####64.8 kg Gesamtgewicht

***###278.4 Watt Steigungsleistung

***####46.6 Watt Leistung für Luftwiderstand

***####18.6 Watt Leistung für Rollwiderstand

***###343.7 Watt Gesamtleistung

***#####5.9 Watt pro Kg Körpergewicht

***###929.0 Kcal Kalorienverbrauch bzw. 3889.7 KJ

http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm

When these numbers are correct:

one must say cycling is clean now

Looking at the VAM numbers will be misleading given that Contador shut down his attacks everytime Purito responded. Would have been some pretty high numbers if he got the gap early and went for it au bloc.

Of course, race tactics can not be underestimated.

Would like to see Rodriguez numbers of the Giro.

 

[Mellow Velo]

no, it's just called double standard.

It is.
Ironically, this was the point I was making.
Obviously, not in the same way that you meant it, though.

So Contador is now climbing worse than Mosquera/Nibali 2010? Or I guess that should be climbing on par with Gesink/Menchov/Sanchez 2010.

This is exactly what struck me, when folks began to cite Contador's diminished capacity to explain JRod's success.
Just doesn't compute.

 

[Mr.38%]

I doubt, it's possible to increase FTP by more than 2-4% without triggering passport thresholds if you are already on a program. A 4% gain would be HUGE, but even +4% would not explain his TIME TRIAL performance. So would anybody actually claim, Purito got on the juice for the first time this year (considering his palmarès)? With the high profile he has now, an enhanced program would put himself into extreme danger.

IMO he is doing what he did or didn't. Science fiction doping on Katusha? No, leave this to the Brits.

And whatever he does, I love the fireworks. He is bringing the Spring Classics feeling to Grand Tours.

 

[Ferminal]

And whatever he does, I love the fireworks. He is bringing the Spring Classics feeling to Grand Tours.

The not attacking until the absolute final difficulty part?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I doubt, it's possible to increase FTP by more than 2-4% without triggering passport thresholds if you are already on a program. A 4% gain would be HUGE, but even +4% would not explain his TIME TRIAL performance. So would anybody actually claim, Purito got on the juice for the first time this year (considering his palmarès)? With the high profile he has now, an enhanced program would put himself into extreme danger.

IMO he is doing what he did or didn't. Science fiction doping on Katusha? No, leave this to the Brits.

And whatever he does, I love the fireworks. He is bringing the Spring Classics feeling to Grand Tours.

He was riding up to Pampeago at 6w/kg, a 25 minute climb, now he is doing 5,9w/kg for 43 minutes 20?

He and Hesjedal would have been second and third on Pantani in 1999 on Pampeago.

 

[hrotha]

I doubt, it's possible to increase FTP by more than 2-4% without triggering passport thresholds if you are already on a program. A 4% gain would be HUGE, but even +4% would not explain his TIME TRIAL performance. So would anybody actually claim, Purito got on the juice for the first time this year (considering his palmarès)? With the high profile he has now, an enhanced program would put himself into extreme danger.

Not all forms of doping rely on blood manipulation.

 

[Mr.38%]

The not attacking until the absolute final difficulty part?

The only leader's jersey to attack anything and anyone since Merckx was HHSNBN. Do you want that? Purito is there with the best of the best, if it was so easy, why are there only just four riders left each day?

Not all forms of doping rely on blood manipulation.

Read through my postings. My point is and always was that T, GH and cortisone still deliver the descisive "marginal gains" to be competetive. Unfortunately JV did not respond to my question in his thread.

I find these mountain sprints highly suspiscious though, a typical sign for O² vector manipulation.

He was riding up to Pampeago at 6w/kg, a 25 minute climb, now he is doing 5,9w/kg for 43 minutes 20?

He and Hesjedal would have been second and third on Pantani in 1999 on Pampeago.

You are carrying water into the river. Very annoying.

 

[B_Ugli]

I doubt, it's possible to increase FTP by more than 2-4% without triggering passport thresholds if you are already on a program. A 4% gain would be HUGE, but even +4% would not explain his TIME TRIAL performance. So would anybody actually claim, Purito got on the juice for the first time this year (considering his palmarès)? With the high profile he has now, an enhanced program would put himself into extreme danger.

IMO he is doing what he did or didn't. Science fiction doping on Katusha? No, leave this to the Brits.

And whatever he does, I love the fireworks. He is bringing the Spring Classics feeling to Grand Tours.

Ah the biological passport. That old document that came out to a blaze of fanfare a few years back and was meant to mean something - but alas is now confined to the spin machine of the UCI. Isnt Armstrongs Bio Passport data sitting in a shredding basket in Lausanne? Its alright though cos if your a mate of Pats your passport data may as well be in a toilet roll holder.

I say abolish all drug testing tomorrow and let them take what they want - hang on a minute they are doing that anyway!

 

[Mr.38%]

blah, blubb...



http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/03/biological-passport-effective-fight-or.html

6 W/kg max in 2012. Doped? Hell yeah! Still Talansky almost on par with the toxiest of 'em.

 

[87'Start]

Speculation into power to weight on climbs etc is all well and good but doesn't provide definitive answers, although I understand why folks engage in it. The fact it does go on for me is an indication of the damage that has been inflicted on the sport.

Indeed given the last 20yrs it does indeed seem that JR is doped. Hopefully in another 20yrs we'll be able to look at a dominant performance without suspicion, trust the riders and teams and have reason to believe in the sport.

The really sad thing is that it is almost impossible to watch these types of stages and performance and not at least wonder if the riders are cheating. Depressing to the point of turning off. From that POV the sport is seriously damaged probably for a whole generation of fans who care about its credibility. Equally sad is the huge number of fans (probably the majority) who suck it up without question. A far more honest and educated stance to take would be: 'Impressive performance, I just want to believe its real'

In my opinion Cycling fans are those who care and ask questions. Fans of individual athletes are those who blindly believe what they see. And of course there are those who have vested interests and therefore can't give their honest opinion due to the sport's inherent culture.

Wiggins recently referring to 'nonsense talk' is so wrong. He could quite easily put pay to the problem by speaking out in praise of the USADA and breaking the Omerta. He is the Yellow Jersey and the Patron of the sport. I wish he'd speak out...

Drifted off topic sorry...

 

[hrotha]

blah, blubb...

[url]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-VUHtdzkg5bw/TYY3q1knCUI/AAAAAAAACAg/u8SeJiHb0Nk/s400/Screen+shot+2011-03-20+at+7.18.00+PM.png[/URL]

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/03/biological-passport-effective-fight-or.html

6 W/kg max in 2012. Doped? Hell yeah! Still Talansky almost on par with the toxiest of 'em.

Is he, though? He's 8:28 down in the GC, and even without the time he lost in the TTT he wouldn't be much better off. He's lost time in every stage and in the only mountain stage that has created gaps he lost 2 minutes despite doing great, arriving roughly with Antón, Ten Dam and Gesink. Clearly not "almost on par".

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You are carrying water into the river. Very annoying.

Instead of this marginal gains/Weber BS you could try to point out what I am doing wrong.

And please, that graph is so laughable, like the tests done by UCI are so trustworthy

Just a simple question, how can J Rodriguez suddenly maintain that kinda power over 43 minutes? Never could but at the age of 32 a blossom?

Perhaps Contador isn't as strong as to the Giro 2011 but this is quite a leap in performance.

6 W/kg max in 2012. Doped? Hell yeah! Still Talansky almost on par with the toxiest of 'em

So, Talansky is the benchmark?

 

[Mr.38%]

Is he, though? He's 8:28 down in the GC, and even without the time he lost in the TTT he wouldn't be much better off. He's lost time in every stage and in the only mountain stage that has created gaps he lost 2 minutes despite doing great, arriving roughly with Antón, Ten Dam and Gesink. Clearly not "almost on par".

I call this almost on par, yes. He's young, give him two more (hopefully clean) years.

Instead of this marginal gains/Weber BS you could try to point out what I am doing wrong.

And please, that graph is so laughable, like the tests done by UCI are so trustworthy

Just a simple question, how can J Rodriguez suddenly maintain that kinda power over 43 minutes? Never could but at the age of 32 a blossom?

Perhaps Contador isn't as strong as to the Giro 2011 but this is quite a leap in performance.So, Talansky is the benchmark?

Everything is laughable, except it fits into your small world. I have authentic, first hand information about a very specific aspect. You have nothing but speculation. Ok, the clinic is all about speculation and connecting dots. No argument is good enough unless it proves, everyone is doping (and of course, it's getting worse every year, that's a must). Connect some dots to dirty team and you have a winner. Russians - DOPERS! Ex-Gerolsteiner - DOPERS! I bet they use helium in the tubes - DOPING!

Why carrying water? Because you didn't even read what I wrote. It's impossible for someone who is already blood doping to improve by a huge margin. Unless of course he finds the holy grail of doping.

 

[hiero2]

blah, blubb...



http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/03/biological-passport-effective-fight-or.html

6 W/kg max in 2012. Doped? Hell yeah! Still Talansky almost on par with the toxiest of 'em.

That is not a simple graph - I definitely needed to read the originating page to fully understand what I was seeing.

AND, I think this graph represents good news, imo, on several fronts.

1> Notice that the results are represented as a percentage of ALL samples taken. The highest level, in 2001, is about 14%. Think about that for a second. Only 14% of ALL the samples taken showed a remarkable result (for this particular marker). If I can take that to represent the percentage of cyclists who were doping, that is marvelous. Even if I double it, and guess that 1 riders was missed for every questionable test result, that still only gives me 30% of the pro peloton actively doping in the Dark Ages (or what is it now? The Dark Era?).
2> Notice the huge decrease in the number of anomalous results. This fits what we hear from our various expert sources in our discussions here. There is still dopage, but it is far more limited in extent. This is how JV and others can say "it is cleaner now", "it is as clean as we have ever seen it", and be honest, when we also got one rider from the pro peloton, and other experts, saying that the needles are still there.
3> The article author points out that the bio passport system is longitudinal (it looks at values historically). This is an excellent point. Maintaining values to increase performance and yet "pass" the bio passport over time must be extremely difficult, and it will incur cost. It would also frequently mean that more than one person would almost have to be involved. Which increases the likelihood that the secret won't be. Witness LA - it eventually came out.
4> The down side is that we might have to wait a year or two to see how Rodriguez fares on the bio passport testing.

We've had a number of people here mention the power results for Rodriguez - comparing his results to last year, to the Giro, etc. Has anybody taken on the heavy lifting in that exercise? Do we have a link?

 

[Ferminal]

The only leader's jersey to attack anything and anyone since Merckx was HHSNBN.

How many times has he attacked? Four? All within the last 5km? Textbook Gold Race/Fleche Wallone racing. Nothing to do with doping, simply the idea that Purito is an attacking rider, he isn't.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I call this almost on par, yes. He's young, give him two more (hopefully clean) years.


Everything is laughable, except it fits into your small world. I have authentic, first hand information about a very specific aspect. You have nothing but speculation. Ok, the clinic is all about speculation and connecting dots. No argument is good enough unless it proves, everyone is doping (and of course, it's getting worse every year, that's a must). Connect some dots to dirty team and you have a winner. Russians - DOPERS! Ex-Gerolsteiner - DOPERS! I bet they use helium in the tubes - DOPING!

Why carrying water? Because you didn't even read what I wrote. It's impossible for someone who is already blood doping to improve by a huge margin. Unless of course he finds the holy grail of doping.

Ah, so you too do not have an answer for Rodriguez rise to greatness? Thanks for clearing that up, quite authentic I must say.

Keep enjoying the 'attacks'.

 

[Mr.38%]

Keep enjoying the 'attacks'.

Thanks, appreciated.

Good luck to you opening that coconut with the other conspiracy monkeys.

 

[the big ring]

blah, blubb...



http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/03/biological-passport-effective-fight-or.html

6 W/kg max in 2012. Doped? Hell yeah! Still Talansky almost on par with the toxiest of 'em.

No offense intended to you, but I have seen that graph bandied around often now.

Do you even know what it means?

If so, can you explain it?

Can you explain it in terms of the fact that (can't find the reference now, but still) the number of tests being conducted are going down over time.

And as Ashenden pointed out, there are big gaps in who is being tested (can find the reference for that if you like).

It's a bit like the u-beaut graph acoggan did to explain Wiggins' critical power, it ignores certain pertinent details - like how many riders and which ones?