Romain Bardet Discussion Thread

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It took the NFL decades of injured athletes and a colossal class action to implement a strict set of rules on concussions.

An incident like the occurred to Bardet, happening in the biggest of races and viewed by millions of fans around the world, might give the demand of a stricter protocol some traction but is there anybody actually lobbying for it (apart from a few diehard cycling fans who post on forums)?
 
It's not as easy to say if it is a concussion or not, those who follow combat sports will know that a big hit behind the ear can also mess with your equilibrium. That said, a rider shouldn't be allowed to ride in that state, it's dangerous for himself and the other riders. I rember Skujins stumbling around the road with his legs gone in Cali a few years ago, that was hard to watch.
 
Right away when he went down again I thought, no way is that NOT a concussion, but when he was up and riding it could have just meant that he stumbled. Even so, why was he not at least taken to a car and evaluated?

But once again we see that pro sports "doctors" are just hacks and team directors/coaches who profess to put athletes first are actually putting winning first. An athlete who is concussed is not able to make a rational decision about their fitness to continue.

As mentioned above it's taken 80 years for the NFL to handle concussions more or less correctly. Cycling is a very modern sport in many respects but it still has that "tough it out" mentality, as witnessed by Fabio's crash and incidents like yesterday's. That needs to go.
 
Right away when he went down again I thought, no way is that NOT a concussion, but when he was up and riding it could have just meant that he stumbled. Even so, why was he not at least taken to a car and evaluated?

But once again we see that pro sports "doctors" are just hacks and team directors/coaches who profess to put athletes first are actually putting winning first. An athlete who is concussed is not able to make a rational decision about their fitness to continue.

As mentioned above it's taken 80 years for the NFL to handle concussions more or less correctly. Cycling is a very modern sport in many respects but it still has that "tough it out" mentality, as witnessed by Fabio's crash and incidents like yesterday's. That needs to go.
Cycling really is one of the most archaic sports IMO
 
Not OK by x1000. You would have hoped that concussion screening would have been implemented, but of course not. Lucky this did not end much worse and hope he recovers fully and quickly. Post concussion issues are nothing to be messed with
Yeah, where’s the NFL sideline doc when you need them? (in truth, the NFL was/is despicable for not taking more care of players brains years ago :(
 
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I'm really no specialist on this topic, but one thing I'm very sure of is that being conscious, able to answer questions and sit on your bike does not mean you don't have a concussion.
There were interviews with two doctors today who described these things as signs that Bardet was okay and who said there was no proof he had a concussion.
Well, I did not even know there is a concussion protocol, but as there is one and it clearly states a rider with a "suspected" (not a proven) concussion should be taken out of the race, I think there should be consequences for all the doctors involved in this who did not take him out.
 
I'm really no specialist on this topic, but one thing I'm very sure of is that being conscious, able to answer questions and sit on your bike does not mean you don't have a concussion.
There were interviews with two doctors today who described these things as signs that Bardet was okay and who said there was no proof he had a concussion.
Well, I did not even know there is a concussion protocol, but as there is one and it clearly states a rider with a "suspected" (not a proven) concussion should be taken out of the race, I think there should be consequences for all the doctors involved in this who did not take him out.
I've been concussed myself after a roller skating accident without helmet as a kid. Could still roll home no problem with a lot more coordination than Bardet showed after his initial crash.

It should've been clear as *** to anyone with a medical degree and ability to do basic tests on him.
 
Anybody speaking german should read the book "Dominik Nerz - Gestürzt: Eine Geschichte aus dem Radsport" by Michael Ostermann. It is about Nerz and the reasons why he never fulfilled his potential and how a mixture of reasons ended his career. Among those was also a series of crashes after which he was rushed/rushing back to racing without waiting for his body to recover fully from a concussion. It got really ugly, really fast and they (he himself, Bora as the team etc.) messed the whole situation up. There were other significant reasons coming into play too but not dealing with concussions in the right way messed him up pretty badly. Constantly at the limit, not able to recover properly, even in training. He wasn't able to do intervals at points etc. Long term effects are no joke. Especially for athletes who are under pressure constantly, are on the limit of what is healthy for their body (or on the other side of it) and are rushing back to get results etc. because contract year or in '20 having limited racing to begin with.
 
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I'm really no specialist on this topic, but one thing I'm very sure of is that being conscious, able to answer questions and sit on your bike does not mean you don't have a concussion.
There were interviews with two doctors today who described these things as signs that Bardet was okay and who said there was no proof he had a concussion.
Well, I did not even know there is a concussion protocol, but as there is one and it clearly states a rider with a "suspected" (not a proven) concussion should be taken out of the race, I think there should be consequences for all the doctors involved in this who did not take him out.
LOL ... should check his balance standing and check his eyes. The basic cognitive orientation questions are good too, but really, sitting on a bike for a pro-cyclist is so second nature, it would be like getting a non-athlete to sit up and say "hey, that's OK!"

I'd wager he would have been super wobbly on his feet and his eyes would have been vacant with some challenges focusing - no more racing today for you my friend.

Of course, there is the risk that they screen and it takes another half minute and he passes and "oh no" he loses GC time. But if we take people's safety somewhat seriously, then this is a simple decision. A 'no-brainer', so to speak.
 
It is absolutely insane how much risk and damage is handwaved away every time with 'it's a part of the sport'
The risk has seriously elevated with the increased signage and traffic delineations to the point most riders are stressed whether they crash or not. The old Hard Men of the 80's would probably not done any better and the major Patrons like Hinault would probably have ordered a strike to prevent it. Just guessing on his part as he was fairly vocal in his day.
At the same time some of the current devices like the Specialized ANGi helmet sensor would seem to be a good way to initiate a concussion protocol after a crash. A rider would be directed to sit; get assessed. If deemed OK he would be cleared for a car ride back to the peleton rather than an additionally stressful chase back through the cars.

Some of the tough parts of the sport endure and do represent the challenges that make it what it is. Not for the weak of will or legs and the Riders' association should deal with that along with UCI full support. The UCI is not rich like the NFL and can't handle a lawsuit. Their approval of some of these sprint zones and road features makes them very responsible for the consequences, wouldn't you agree?
 
Yeah, where’s the NFL sideline doc when you need them? (in truth, the NFL was/is despicable for not taking more care of players brains years ago :(
...protecting the athlete from him/herself is not easy. Everybody wants to play, wants to win, needs a paycheck. The NFLPA and the owners/commissioner took forever to make the right decision. In cycling, there's no union to speak of. Bugno and his clones are clowns.

I'm sad for Romain, our last GC chance, and I admire his will to continue. Cycling has changed over the decades, but the riders haven't: to be a pro, and even at a lesser level, one has to be able to endure extreme pain and suffering. No disrespect for athletes in other sports, but those cats are special.
 
Shame to see Bardet go, I've always liked his quiet determination and lack of caprices. Watching him fall back over was ridiculous and scary and he should never have been allowed to continue...but this is cycling where people get back on, go down the road, then work out if they are injured.
 
Firstly, I am far from a doctor.

This protocol in regards to cyclists with concussion, and just in regards to their safety in general, can be comparable a little to how we deal with covid, as in, that there is no right or wrong answer. Covid is about quantity of life vs. quality of life; well, that is how I see it mostly.

So with the concussion thing, what happens if a rider is in yellow, ahead by a few minutes, and in week three crashes hard on an alpine descent? He stands up, stumbles a little, but is able to get back on his bike. It is the final decisive stage in the general classification, and it seems as if he will be able to - if allowed to continue - finish the stage, retaining enough of his lead to secure Tour victory. But it looks like he very well 'could' be concussed, and the doctor is on hand to access.

The doctor makes a quick determination that he is 90% sure that he has concussion, and the rider is removed from the race. Later on, after more extensive tests, it is determined that no concussion is suffered. Everyone is left with one of the biggest what ifs ever.

So it is difficult to say if you should have a strict rule in this situation for all circumstances.

Yes, the safety of the cyclists life is important, but let's face it, if it was ALL important, then we wouldn't let these guys do the crazy things that they do on a bike in the first place. And so, the cyclists life is important, as is the quality of that life off the bike. But a MAJOR aspect of his (or her, in other cases) life is racing, and winning, especially if that race happened to be the overall victory of the Tour De France.

Because cycling is not like football, or basketball etc, I don't see how there is a right answer here.
 

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