Romain Bardet Discussion Thread

[Blanco]

Re:

Now you expected Bardet to be dumb enough to risk exploding ('cause, lack of good enough legs to drop the yellow jersey) just for the sake of your entertainment. Amazing.

That's exactly what he said he will do, and that's exactly what he should have done. He needed to risk everything, but he didn;t do that and here's the result. Quintana was criticized in 2015 for riding a conservative race and not attacking Froome when he should've, but Quintana in 2015 was much more attacking rider then Bardet 2017. Watch Contador in Vuelta 2012 and Nibali at Angliru 2013 if you want to see real risk taker and attacking rider, rider who wants to win at any cost. That's the spirit needed for a grand victory, Bardet didn't had that.

 

[staubsauger]

In fact he tried. He simply capitulated once he'd shredded his whole team to thin out the Sky train and already that completely failed. That's a tiny, but important difference to riding shy like Quintana. Normally I always criticize conservative racing. Here, I fully understand pragmatism wins!

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Now you expected Bardet to be dumb enough to risk exploding ('cause, lack of good enough legs to drop the yellow jersey) just for the sake of your entertainment. Amazing.

That's exactly what he said he will do, and that's exactly what he should have done. He needed to risk everything, but he didn;t do that and here's the result. Quintana was criticized in 2015 for riding a conservative race and not attacking Froome when he should've, but Quintana in 2015 was much more attacking rider then Bardet 2017. Watch Contador in Vuelta 2012 and Nibali at Angliru 2013 if you want to see real risk taker and attacking rider, rider who wants to win at any cost. That's the spirit needed for a grand victory, Bardet didn't had that.

I fail to see (m)any differences between Nibali 2013 and Bardet 2017.

 

[Red Rick]

This is similarities between Bardet today and Nibali at the Angliru don't go much further than both being living, breathing organisms metabolizing chemicals to maintain their state.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

This is similarities between Bardet today and Nibali at the Angliru don't go much further than both being living, breathing organisms metabolizing chemicals to maintain their state.

Sarcasm will get you nowhere, you know.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

This is similarities between Bardet today and Nibali at the Angliru don't go much further than both being living, breathing organisms metabolizing chemicals to maintain their state.

Sarcasm will get you nowhere, you know.

Agreed, but with sound arguments I'd get nowhere too, so at least there's no false hope of getting somewhere.

 

[hrotha]

That Vuelta had been fought largely through short efforts, but on the Angliru Nibali tried near the beginning of the hard section and forced a situation where Horner had to give his all for a longer period of time, to see if that changed the power dynamics from previous days. By contrast, in this Tour no one has had to keep it up for longer than the sadly now standard 3 km effort. We already knew how strong everybody is on that kind of effort. We don't know how the contenders deal with, say, 10-15 km uphill full gas. That's what Bardet needed to try, if he wasn't willing to attempt any long-range team manoeuvres.

 

[DanielSong39]

He did well just to finish ahead of Froome and grab the 4 bonus seconds. I expected him to do much worse.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

That Vuelta had been fought largely through short efforts, but on the Angliru Nibali tried near the beginning of the hard section and forced a situation where Horner had to give his all for a longer period of time, to see if that changed the power dynamics from previous days. By contrast, in this Tour no one has had to keep it up for longer than the sadly now standard 3 km effort. We already knew how strong everybody is on that kind of effort. We don't know how the contenders deal with, say, 10-15 km uphill full gas. That's what Bardet needed to try, if he wasn't willing to attempt any long-range team manoeuvres.

You cannot compare how the Tour is ridden to the Vuelta which let us all be honest is treated as a consolation prize by the teams and riders. Sky is always 100% at the Tour never the Vuelta.

Bardet can only do so much give him a break. As others have said Bardet did try. Two Tour Podiums in succession is nothing to be sneezed at in the Sky era. Sky has won every Tour since 2012 except 2014 when Froome crashed and this year is on track for number 5. That is no accident.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Now you expected Bardet to be dumb enough to risk exploding ('cause, lack of good enough legs to drop the yellow jersey) just for the sake of your entertainment. Amazing.

Isn't that what he said he would do? And then comprehensively didn't.

He attacked. He tried to crack the yellow jersey on the climb but didn't succeed.

Now you're basically saying: "Uh no, he did not attack on the lower slopes of Vars. He didn't try to win. What a coward."
Being brave is not being dumb.

I've never said that. I said he should have attacked once his last team mate pulled off about 7km from the top. That was when the pace had been lifted to it's highest and everyone was close to the limit; it was the opportunity to test Froome, with enough kms left to still potentially win the race, or even just to isolate him for a second attack a bit later. But instead he bottled it and slunked to the middle of the pack, letting Sky regain full control of the race.

You literally said he was a coward on the race thread.

Do you really think Bardet would have got away with four Sky riders chasing him as hard as they could? Because I don't.

Well he didn't try.

Yes, there was literally a 1% chance he would have got away, but that's better than the 0% chance he had of winning the Tour by attacking at 3km.

The train can only go as fast as the Dawg can go. If Froome was cracking like in 2015, and Bardet only found out with 3km to go, there wasn't enough road left to gain 90-120 seconds.

Yes he attacked, and gave it a try, but unlike his words in the press, he didn't put everything on the line to win today.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Bardet can only do so much give him a break. As others have said Bardet did try. Two Tour Podiums in succession is nothing to be sneezed at in the Sky era. Sky has won every Tour since 2012 except 2014 when Froome crashed and this year is on track for number 5. That is no accident.

You think Sky cares who is with their number 1 on the podium?
In fact, they do care, they want to be as impressive as possible to deter sustained efforts/long-range attacks. That's the only thing they really fear. And the adversaries of Froome & Sky have acted exactly along their playbook, so imagine they were quite happy with the others' tactics (see also: Froome's relief in the flat tire stage). You think that Nibali or younger-Contador would've done the same? They would not really care for second and would damn well dare to risk losing in order to gain. I guess Bardet is under a lot of pressure from his team though, but he simply did not show he was willing to really risk his podium spot to be on the number 1 spot.

 

[DanielSong39]

Based on what I saw today he literally had a 1% chance of doing much better than what he ended up doing. He has a better shot hoping for a Vino result...

If Froome had been vulnerable he would've been dropped.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Bardet can only do so much give him a break. As others have said Bardet did try. Two Tour Podiums in succession is nothing to be sneezed at in the Sky era. Sky has won every Tour since 2012 except 2014 when Froome crashed and this year is on track for number 5. That is no accident.

You think Sky cares who is with their number 1 on the podium?
In fact, they do care, they want to be as impressive as possible to deter sustained efforts/long-range attacks. That's the only thing they really fear. And the adversaries of Froome & Sky have acted exactly along their playbook, so imagine they were quite happy with the others' tactics (see also: Froome's relief in the flat tire stage). You think that Nibali or younger-Contador would've done the same? They would not really care for second and would damn well dare to risk losing in order to gain. I guess Bardet is under a lot of pressure from his team though, but he simply did not show he was willing to really risk his podium spot to be on the number 1 spot.

Sorry but I see no evidence Bardet is another Nibali or Contador. Again you guys like entertainment but forget it comes down not just to courage but legs, ability and the level of competition. Taking advantage of Froome's flat? Come on now have your forgotten chaingate already? You expect miracles.

Whether Sky cares who is their number 1 on the podium is irrelevant Bardet knows the only Sky rider he has to worry about is Froome but if you don't have the legs and risk throwing away a podium for 5% chance of it sticking is quite silly. And for the nth time, he did try. He just didn't have the legs.

Sky ride at such a pace that attacks are virtually impossible. Landa, Nieve, Henao, these guys can hold a big pace that is too much for a guy like Bardet to jump away. This is an obvious fact we have been watching Sky doing this for 6 years now. Whether Bardet was willing is irrelevant he obviously didn't have the legs to make an impression on Froome and his team. Quite simple really.

 

[hrotha]

The team excuse went out of the window when they managed to isolate Froome almost completely and still did ***-all about it.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

The team excuse went out of the window when they managed to isolate Froome almost completely and still did ***-all about it.

I think the damage was already done by then. They had nothing left to give no matter what the mind might have asked for.

As the CN report says "Bardet was not done with his attempts to crack Froome and the Frenchman made another attempt on the yellow jersey with 500 metres to go."

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

What is obvious is that one weak attack close the summit was never going to be anywhere near enough to take over a minute out of Froome.

He talked the talk before hand, got his team to set up the potential attack, but then cowed when it was decision time and settled for a podium position. A disappointing outcome.

This.

It's still a great TdF for Romain, though. But his reputation as a fearless attacker has taken a serious hit. He ain't no Contador, he ain't no Vino... The morale of the story is: if you run your mouth, you'd better deliver. Otherwise, shut up and pedal.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

What is obvious is that one weak attack close the summit was never going to be anywhere near enough to take over a minute out of Froome.

He talked the talk before hand, got his team to set up the potential attack, but then cowed when it was decision time and settled for a podium position. A disappointing outcome.

This.

It's still a great TdF for Romain, though. But his reputation as a fearless attacker has taken a serious hit. He ain't no Contador, he ain't no Vino... The morale of the story is: if you run your mouth, you'd better deliver. Otherwise, shut up and pedal.

He is better than Tibo though :lol:

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

The team excuse went out of the window when they managed to isolate Froome almost completely and still did ***-all about it.

I think the damage was already done by then. They had nothing left to give no matter what the mind might have asked for.

As the CN report says "Bardet was not done with his attempts to crack Froome and the Frenchman made another attempt on the yellow jersey with 500 metres to go."

I think Hrotha means the stage where Sky spent itself bringing Froome back after a mechanical and they just chased each other instead of attacking and where Froome lost quite a bit of time in the last 500m.

This was the worst Tour I've ever seen. Statistical probability of three riders finishing within the same time on all important stages when the race is being raced is remotely small.

It's ironic that riders keep complaining about dangerous descents, which is only the result of them not trying anything uphill and then doing explosive efforts at 100kmh downhill, which is where the only (half-arsed) attacks happened.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

What is obvious is that one weak attack close the summit was never going to be anywhere near enough to take over a minute out of Froome.

He talked the talk before hand, got his team to set up the potential attack, but then cowed when it was decision time and settled for a podium position. A disappointing outcome.

This.

It's still a great TdF for Romain, though. But his reputation as a fearless attacker has taken a serious hit. He ain't no Contador, he ain't no Vino... The morale of the story is: if you run your mouth, you'd better deliver. Otherwise, shut up and pedal.

He is better than Tibo though :lol:

At this Tour definitely .

 

[Robert5091]

Bardet needed a couple more MTF's and a stronger team.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Bardet needed a couple more MTF's and a stronger team.

Can't have everything...he already had Valverde crashing, Quintana Giro-whacked, Contador past his prime, Martin crashing...a lot of things went his way. I think he needed no Froome , and even then, Uran is right there. He has the second-strongest team, but they race like donkeys...like today, being Sky's doms, inflicting no damage...Lavenu has been in this game long enough and he still doesn't get it...the same can be said about Unzue, Madiot, and of course the anti-Midas, Patrick Lefevere...turning gold into lead time and time again.

 

[deValtos]

I don't think you can ask for a stronger team honestly. Ag2R impressed me a lot this race. I think they have all 9 riders in the top 60 or something like that on GC. Crazy.

Only complaint is it's not Sky but the level of the team was enough to support a TDF winner.

 

[JosephK]

Chapeau to Romain! He even finished ahead of The Mutant today, albeit by a hair. Still, he will need to ride a strong time trial on Saturday to stay on the podium.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Bardet needed a couple more MTF's and a stronger team.

I thought his team was good enough. He just wasn't good enough to beat Froome. Great performance nevertheless.

 

[Moviefan1203]

Did you see him after the finish? He was completely spent. He had nothing left to give.