Romain Bardet Discussion Thread

[clydesdale]

Re:

I just read his post race comments and one of the things he said: "I made a choice not to focus on the time trial because it’s not the way I like to ride. Going out to train on my time trial bike is a little bit boring for me." IMO, that's unprofessional.

I like Roman Bardet but this disappoints me. I like riding my road bike better as well but if you don't force yourself into that position a lot you will never get used to it. Not every bit of training is meant to be fun. Hopefully this is a wake up call and he straps himself into a TT bike all winter or he will never win a GT.

He is a much better climber than Dumo but say they throw 60 or 70 k of time trials in the Tour next year. What would that be, 6-7 minutes off the top of my head, is he that much better? Forget about Froome, he will have trouble with Dumo.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Everything seems wrong about Bardet's TT position honestly.

Bardet's position is not good and in general in recent times,apart from Peraud who had a mountain biking background and Christian Moreau sometimes, the French have had trouble producing GC riders who can also time trial. 30 years ago it didn't seem to be a problem. Bardet's upper body moves too much and he just looks awkward on the bike. Quintana looks much smoother, as do most of the GC top 10. It definitely seems to be a weakness in French road racing. Maybe some coaching changes ?

 

[toolittle]

I think, bardet and ag2r had done their best. Opponents just over-estimate his ability, never give a chance to move.
Another problem is "strong guys are dropped, sky focus on Bardet.

If Contador and Porte are there, race dynamics will be totally different.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Bardet got gifted the podium by the home jury in the end. Should've been penalised for that illegal feed, just like Uran & Bennett initially were, and just like Froome and Porte were back in 2013

 

[wirral]

I think Bardet's time trial yesterday was awful. The poor time was a result of poor pacing, poor position on the bike, possibly wrong gearing, lack of intimacy with the course and approaching it with an 'it'll be all right on the night' attitude. He should not have lost that amount of time to all his rivals yesterday.

A fair portion of the blame for that must lie with the team. If they want GC riders, they need to push the rider to train for TT's and monitor the results. They need to provide accurate and correct advice with regards to pacing both pre-TT and during-TT. They need to be very familiar with the course in important TT's. I am not sure if any of the above were done by AG2R.

The last two GT's were decided by TT's. If Bardet and AG2R will not step up to the plate, other teams will happily do so.

 

[kingjr]

He completely choked yesterday, not quite as bad as Rasmussen, but not far off either. He never found his rhythm and he looked wobbly in most of the corners. I hold no grudge against him, but after listening to the Marseille crowd (some oh which also booed Uran I believe) I would have loved if he had lost the podium to Landa.

 

[RedheadDane]

But it's not Bardet's fault that the crowd booed. In fact, he told people to stop.

 

[Red Rick]

I can't understand how he refuses to train on a TT bike and talks about winning the Tour at the same time.

Right now he's a bit like Andy Schleck with half the talent.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I can't understand how he refuses to train on a TT bike and talks about winning the Tour at the same time.

Right now he's a bit like Andy Schleck with half the talent.

Andy Schleck with Frank Schleck-talent, but with a descent.

 

[kingjr]

Re:

But it's not Bardet's fault that the crowd booed. In fact, he told people to stop.

I know it's not his fault. Dropping from 3rd would be a disappointment, but as he was 2nd already last year, I think he'd get over it soon, which is why I think it would have been worth it, just to spite the crowd.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

But it's not Bardet's fault that the crowd booed. In fact, he told people to stop.

I know it's not his fault. Dropping from 3rd would be a disappointment, but as he was 2nd already last year, I think he'd get over it soon, which is why I think it would have been worth it, just to spite the crowd.

I just don't see the point in wishing misfortune on one guy, to spite other people.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

But it's not Bardet's fault that the crowd booed. In fact, he told people to stop.

I know it's not his fault. Dropping from 3rd would be a disappointment, but as he was 2nd already last year, I think he'd get over it soon, which is why I think it would have been worth it, just to spite the crowd.

I just don't see the point in wishing misfortune on one guy, to spite other people.

For me, the one outweighs the other in this case, that's all there is to it. I don't think it's such a big misfortune for Bardet, although he will understandably not share that sentiment. Misfortune is a bit of an odd term anyway, as it was simply a lack of ability that got him into trouble.

 

[dusty red roads]

Hopefully with yesterday's result he'll see the light and actually do some TT work next season.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

But it's not Bardet's fault that the crowd booed. In fact, he told people to stop.

I know it's not his fault. Dropping from 3rd would be a disappointment, but as he was 2nd already last year, I think he'd get over it soon, which is why I think it would have been worth it, just to spite the crowd.

I just don't see the point in wishing misfortune on one guy, to spite other people.

For me, the one outweighs the other in this case, that's all there is to it. I don't think it's such a big misfortune for Bardet, although he will understandably not share that sentiment. Misfortune is a bit of an odd term anyway, as it was simply a lack of ability that got him into trouble.

Of course he won't be too upset.
But I just think the "The crowd booed, so Bardet should lose his podium" way of thinking is kinda odd...

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re:

Hopefully with yesterday's result he'll see the light and actually do some TT work next season.

Absolutely. The way things stand I can't see him winning a tour unless there are 0 TT miles.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

But it's not Bardet's fault that the crowd booed. In fact, he told people to stop.

I know it's not his fault. Dropping from 3rd would be a disappointment, but as he was 2nd already last year, I think he'd get over it soon, which is why I think it would have been worth it, just to spite the crowd.

I just don't see the point in wishing misfortune on one guy, to spite other people.

For me, the one outweighs the other in this case, that's all there is to it. I don't think it's such a big misfortune for Bardet, although he will understandably not share that sentiment. Misfortune is a bit of an odd term anyway, as it was simply a lack of ability that got him into trouble.

Of course he won't be too upset.
But I just think the "The crowd booed, so Bardet should lose his podium" way of thinking is kinda odd...

I don't see a better way to punch those fans in the face.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

I just read his post race comments and one of the things he said: "I made a choice not to focus on the time trial because it’s not the way I like to ride. Going out to train on my time trial bike is a little bit boring for me." IMO, that's unprofessional.

I like Roman Bardet but this disappoints me. I like riding my road bike better as well but if you don't force yourself into that position a lot you will never get used to it. Not every bit of training is meant to be fun. Hopefully this is a wake up call and he straps himself into a TT bike all winter or he will never win a GT.

He is a much better climber than Dumo but say they throw 60 or 70 k of time trials in the Tour next year. What would that be, 6-7 minutes off the top of my head, is he that much better? Forget about Froome, he will have trouble with Dumo.

average watts if all cyclists are 67kg model, Bardet in Tour 409, Dumoulin in giro 407.
I know the model is faulty, but in relative performances there is not much difference

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

I just read his post race comments and one of the things he said: "I made a choice not to focus on the time trial because it’s not the way I like to ride. Going out to train on my time trial bike is a little bit boring for me." IMO, that's unprofessional.

I like Roman Bardet but this disappoints me. I like riding my road bike better as well but if you don't force yourself into that position a lot you will never get used to it. Not every bit of training is meant to be fun. Hopefully this is a wake up call and he straps himself into a TT bike all winter or he will never win a GT.

He is a much better climber than Dumo but say they throw 60 or 70 k of time trials in the Tour next year. What would that be, 6-7 minutes off the top of my head, is he that much better? Forget about Froome, he will have trouble with Dumo.

average watts if all cyclists are 67kg model, Bardet in Tour 409, Dumoulin in giro 407.
I know the model is faulty, but in relative performances there is not much difference

I'd want to know which climbs are included, because this would probably have Dumoulin as better than Bardet because bigger riders need a lower normalized power output.

 

[Rollthedice]

Here you have it, courtesy chronoswatts, Fred Portoleau, Giro and Tour 2017 main climbs:

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

A fair portion of the blame for that must lie with the team. If they want GC riders, they need to push the rider to train for TT's and monitor the results. They need to provide accurate and correct advice with regards to pacing both pre-TT and during-TT. They need to be very familiar with the course in important TT's. I am not sure if any of the above were done by AG2R.

When Roche left AG2R after the 2012 season, he said that one of his frustrations was that the team refused to give him a TT bike to train on. No idea whether this is still the case, but yesterday surely must be a wake-up call for the team. No point in managing a stalemate against Sky in the mountains if you're going to lose 2 mins in 22km.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Here you have it, courtesy chronoswatts, Fred Portoleau, Giro and Tour 2017 main climbs:

Shows that the level is even on climbs. Time trials made the differences.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

that 2nd picture is so small no normal eye can read that

 

[Tonton]

For the ITT bikes, it's only since '15 that FDJ gives one for the riders to keep at home and train on. In RB's case, according to his interview,he has one but doesn't like to train on it. Well, lesson learned...but this ITT shouldn't define Romain Bardet's '17 TdF.

48 hours ago, he was a half-God, and now he's a bum...come on . The truth is in the middle, and the factis that Bardet had a great Tour. A HUGE stage win, and he confirmed last year's result with another podium.

The 20-second penalty? I read that Romain got a drink from a spectator, which is not forbidden, whereas it was at first thought that Uran got his bottle from his team, which is not allowed. I didn't dig deeper, correct me if I'm wrong.

For the public (I won't call them fans), there're id**ts everywhere. Having lived and visited many countries, I can tell you that the ratio of id**ots is the same regardless of citizenship, race, religion...it's universal.

So my bottom line is: a brilliant performance overall. Romain's Tour was a success.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I understand you want to defend him. But talking about winning the Tour but finding training on an ITT bike 'too boring' is pretty mind boggling.
Also the team then shows a real lack of understanding. I would almost say typical French...

If you know how much time teams like Sky, Sunweb or Movistar invest in time trialling and the bikes..

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I understand you want to defend him. But talking about winning the Tour but finding training on an ITT bike 'too boring' is pretty mind boggling.
Also the team then shows a real lack of understanding. I would almost say typical French...

If you know how much time teams like Sky, Sunweb or Movistar invest in time trialling and the bikes..

I completely agree with you, and I reposted that June 7 exchange with Alexandre...it bit him in the rear.

For the team thing, not typical French, but universal IMO: teams have been afraid to challenge the dominant squad since the USPS days. Movistar is a great example of that. Other factors, i.e. radios may have also participated in the dumbing down of cycling. The last remaining art is to set up echelons. DS can't set up, or lack confidence in setting up long range attacks. It's a lot of small moves, last km stuff, nothing big...