- Jun 7, 2011
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- Aug 5, 2009
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Re: Re:
No not if you look at the climbers that have won the Tour in the past. 2017 was his best chance and maybe as close as he gets. The cobbles stage seemed to take the fight out of him and his form wasn't looking that great anyway. The problem is that Froome and Dumoulin are good at both climbing and TT riding and now you have Roglic as well with Bernal to come and a few others. How much improvement is in him ? Who knows. Like Pinot he hovers around the top five in his races but he doesn't seem any closer to winning his first grand tour.
SafeBet said:
No not if you look at the climbers that have won the Tour in the past. 2017 was his best chance and maybe as close as he gets. The cobbles stage seemed to take the fight out of him and his form wasn't looking that great anyway. The problem is that Froome and Dumoulin are good at both climbing and TT riding and now you have Roglic as well with Bernal to come and a few others. How much improvement is in him ? Who knows. Like Pinot he hovers around the top five in his races but he doesn't seem any closer to winning his first grand tour.
- Feb 20, 2012
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Bardet is just that. Someone who's not really better than top 5, and at the top level there is a changing of guard to some extent but Bardet isn't moving up cause he's getting overtaken by other riders. The same is happening to the likes of Pinot, Aru, Zakarin, etc.
- Mar 24, 2013
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Re: Re:
Not this Tour . but he has a shot in velogames fantasy cycling. :lol:
He definitely can win the tour. He just has to marry an English girl, change nationality and join Sky.
All this speech how Sagan cannot win the Tour. BS. Of course, he can. Just look on GT.
Poor Kwiatko, Englishmen hate Polish (actually Slovak too). They are willing to lose billions because of that.
Hugo Koblet said:
Not this Tour . but he has a shot in velogames fantasy cycling. :lol:
He definitely can win the tour. He just has to marry an English girl, change nationality and join Sky.
All this speech how Sagan cannot win the Tour. BS. Of course, he can. Just look on GT.
Poor Kwiatko, Englishmen hate Polish (actually Slovak too). They are willing to lose billions because of that.
- Jul 27, 2009
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He hasn't been in top shape all summer long. Not at the Dauphine and not here at the Tour de France. Maybe he can improve his shape for the Vuelta like Quintana did in 2016!?
Re:
Better to focus GDL and WC in my opinion.
Look at Bardet himself and his team. TTT is weak. ITT is weaker.
very very very small chance to win a grand tour under modern racing and training trend.
Bardet is a great rider with positive style and behaviour. Love to see him success.
Keep on fighting for TDF Yellow might spoil his career.
staubsauger said:
Better to focus GDL and WC in my opinion.
Look at Bardet himself and his team. TTT is weak. ITT is weaker.
very very very small chance to win a grand tour under modern racing and training trend.
Bardet is a great rider with positive style and behaviour. Love to see him success.
Keep on fighting for TDF Yellow might spoil his career.
- Jul 27, 2009
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Actually AG2R should've improved in the TTT discipline. They've got decent enough horsepower for that discipline nowadays.
The Giro with his open racing IMHO still provides a chance for him to win a grand tour. But Bardet refuses to take it and yes, someday it might be too late. That's where the Vuelta comes into place if he's able to improve his shape. Otherwise of course attempting the world championships and the Italian fall classics in full sharpness sounds more promising.
The Giro with his open racing IMHO still provides a chance for him to win a grand tour. But Bardet refuses to take it and yes, someday it might be too late. That's where the Vuelta comes into place if he's able to improve his shape. Otherwise of course attempting the world championships and the Italian fall classics in full sharpness sounds more promising.
- Jul 28, 2009
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Re:
I also wouldnt compare him to Pinot, Aru or Zakarin.
Bardet is 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 9th in the TDF and is going to add another top 10.
Pinot has 'just' 1 top 5 in the TDF (3rd) and that is 4 years ago plus a 10th place finish before that.
Aru has 'just' 1 top 5 finish (5th), and hasnt finished a GT on the podium since 2015.
Zakarin has never finished the TDF and has only 1 GT podium on his list.
? I wouldn't say het is not really better than top 5 and that there is a changing of guard. He has been a clear top 3 guy. He was 3rd last year and 2nd before that, and up untill yesterday he was a stong contender for the podium again. 1 bad day or even bad tour doesnt mean changing of guard.Red Rick said:
I also wouldnt compare him to Pinot, Aru or Zakarin.
Bardet is 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 9th in the TDF and is going to add another top 10.
Pinot has 'just' 1 top 5 in the TDF (3rd) and that is 4 years ago plus a 10th place finish before that.
Aru has 'just' 1 top 5 finish (5th), and hasnt finished a GT on the podium since 2015.
Zakarin has never finished the TDF and has only 1 GT podium on his list.
- May 9, 2010
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Re: Re:
Pinot isn't even in the same league as Bardet. Based on the last few years GT's I probably wouldn't even rate Pinot in the top 20 best GT riders.Red Rick said:
These conversations are stupid.
Froome
Dumoulin
Quintana
Nibali
These are the top tier. But then there is a raft of riders in the next tier.
Thomas
Aru
Bardet
Pinot
Uran
Chaves
Lopez
Porte
Yada yada yada.
Where you rank any of these is dependent on your biases predominately.
Froome
Dumoulin
Quintana
Nibali
These are the top tier. But then there is a raft of riders in the next tier.
Thomas
Aru
Bardet
Pinot
Uran
Chaves
Lopez
Porte
Yada yada yada.
Where you rank any of these is dependent on your biases predominately.
- Aug 5, 2009
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Re: Re:
Pinot was in a good position going into the TT in last year's Giro and he was looking good in this year's Giro until he became ill. They both need to work on the TT but Pinot is definitely higher than top 20. More like top 10 at worst.
Hugo Koblet said:
Pinot was in a good position going into the TT in last year's Giro and he was looking good in this year's Giro until he became ill. They both need to work on the TT but Pinot is definitely higher than top 20. More like top 10 at worst.
- Jul 28, 2009
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Re: Re:
My take is that i can see Pinot getting a podium in the TDF during his career, and that goes for Zakarin and Aru as well. However i wonder if he will be a multiple tour podium rider like Bardet. The history of the tour has given us a lot of 1 time performers and not that many who could keep this top level on for multiple years. The fact that Bardet has managed to do this says a lot on how good a rider he is.
Hmmm, i wouldnt call it overperforming by Bardet, that sounds like he isnt top 3 material but somehow lucked into 2 podium finishes. If you believe Pinot is the same level as Bardet a better wording might be that Pinot has underperformed compared to Bardet.Red Rick said:
My take is that i can see Pinot getting a podium in the TDF during his career, and that goes for Zakarin and Aru as well. However i wonder if he will be a multiple tour podium rider like Bardet. The history of the tour has given us a lot of 1 time performers and not that many who could keep this top level on for multiple years. The fact that Bardet has managed to do this says a lot on how good a rider he is.
- Feb 10, 2015
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- Jul 28, 2009
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Yeah i know, even posted it in the post before that.... But i must say i forgot it when i posted my last reply, 2014 is ages ago in cycling i guess.
The point i was trying to make kind of stays though, with how Pinot has performed in the past couple of years i can see him get a podium at the TDF just like a guy like Uran did, but to become a consistent podium contender like Bardet has been in the past years is not something i am sure off.
- May 9, 2010
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Re: Re:
Based on the last three editions of each Grand Tour (this Tour excluded), rating the Tour slightly higher than the Giro and the Vuelta, and rating the newest edition slightly higher than the second newest which is rated slightly higher than the oldest, I'd say these riders have performed better:
Froome, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin, Bardet, Uran, Chaves, Aru, Valverde, Zakarin, Lopez, Pozzovivo, Landa, Martin, A. Yates, S. Yates, Carapaz, Kelderman, Kruijswijk, Majka, Porte.
That leaves Pinot in 22nd place.
Of course this is just one way of doing it - my personal way of trying to calculate the GT riders' performances and rate them accordingly - you can of course do this in hundreds of different ways.
Red Rick said:
Based on the last three editions of each Grand Tour (this Tour excluded), rating the Tour slightly higher than the Giro and the Vuelta, and rating the newest edition slightly higher than the second newest which is rated slightly higher than the oldest, I'd say these riders have performed better:
Froome, Quintana, Nibali, Dumoulin, Bardet, Uran, Chaves, Aru, Valverde, Zakarin, Lopez, Pozzovivo, Landa, Martin, A. Yates, S. Yates, Carapaz, Kelderman, Kruijswijk, Majka, Porte.
That leaves Pinot in 22nd place.
Of course this is just one way of doing it - my personal way of trying to calculate the GT riders' performances and rate them accordingly - you can of course do this in hundreds of different ways.
- May 9, 2010
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Re:
What names do you think is "Wooow"?
As mentioned, this is just a calculation based solely on finishing position. You might consider Pinot's Giro 2018 as something that should be taken into account, but to me it's just zero "points".Red Rick said:
What names do you think is "Wooow"?
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