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Roman Kreuziger Discussion Thread

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Re:

yaco said:
Think he is in decent shape but is being held back helping a struggling S.Yates - I suspect he will ride better and get more opportunities under DS White who allows his riders more freedom - DS Stephens is all for the leader -AFAIK Kreuziger was never riding Suisse.

Stephens is not the DS at this race. its Lapage.

Frankschleck said:
I really feel that orica held him back in the spring classics, where especcially in liege, he looked like the strongest after valverde.

Lovely to have 20/20 hindsight, he was certainly strong in the Ardennes but its only really Liege where arguably he should've been given license to ride for himself. Albasini was in the move that mattered at Amstel and Kreiziger has never been top 10 at Fleche. Would he have finished higher than both Albasini and/or AY ?? Can only be supposition on our part but perhaps he SHOULD've been given the chance.

Kokoso said:
Well I thought it would be good for him to be a mentor and worker for others and have his chances here and there. I hope he'll get stage hunter, too. If De Gendt can be succesful stage hunter, Kreuziger could be too and even better, cause I consider him better of the two. Problem is, unlike De Gendt, until now everybody is alert when Kreuziger gets to the break. Just it's a bit frustrating seeing him work for guys who undeperform and he could get that results as well.

Forgot about Tour de Suisse which he was designed to lead by Orica but Orica (once again) put him in service for Yates and Chaves at Dauphine (where both are bad until now at least). I am not sure Orica acts clever towards Kreuziger, looks like they're acting way you don't want to make friends. When you say something (or even promise) you should fulfil that. Obviously he's professional so he'll do what he's told to do, but that doesn't exclude him possibly being unhappy with the way Orica are treating him. Already he might have reason know. BUt maybe changing programme to Dauphine was mutual.

DO we know for certain that he was going to be riding Suisse then got "yanked" into Dauphine ... or is this again supposition ? Dauphine is where most teams are looking to get things working (esp between key components) of their Tour line-ups; given that Kreuziger WAS signed with the understanding that he'd be in the Tour line-up then it makes sense that he is there rather than Suisse given this is his first year at this team and he had 0 race miles with Chaves beforehand.

COULD he have been better employed at this race ?? Again, in 20/20 hindsight .... yes. Ideally you may've sent him up the road in today's main break with a message "if its good, go for it" but the problem was that whilst both Chaves & SY lost time the previous day, they weren't disastrous haemorrages of major time that took them way out of top 10 calculations. NOW we know that Chaves is looking better if still someway off his top whilst SY is definitely not on form. As it was today it was clearly NOT the case that Kreuziger was keeping an ailing SY company given they finished over 3 min apart.
 
Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
Think he is in decent shape but is being held back helping a struggling S.Yates - I suspect he will ride better and get more opportunities under DS White who allows his riders more freedom - DS Stephens is all for the leader -AFAIK Kreuziger was never riding Suisse.

Stephens is not the DS at this race. its Lapage.

Frankschleck said:
I really feel that orica held him back in the spring classics, where especcially in liege, he looked like the strongest after valverde.

Lovely to have 20/20 hindsight, he was certainly strong in the Ardennes but its only really Liege where arguably he should've been given license to ride for himself. Albasini was in the move that mattered at Amstel and Kreiziger has never been top 10 at Fleche. Would he have finished higher than both Albasini and/or AY ?? Can only be supposition on our part but perhaps he SHOULD've been given the chance.

Kokoso said:
Well I thought it would be good for him to be a mentor and worker for others and have his chances here and there. I hope he'll get stage hunter, too. If De Gendt can be succesful stage hunter, Kreuziger could be too and even better, cause I consider him better of the two. Problem is, unlike De Gendt, until now everybody is alert when Kreuziger gets to the break. Just it's a bit frustrating seeing him work for guys who undeperform and he could get that results as well.

Forgot about Tour de Suisse which he was designed to lead by Orica but Orica (once again) put him in service for Yates and Chaves at Dauphine (where both are bad until now at least). I am not sure Orica acts clever towards Kreuziger, looks like they're acting way you don't want to make friends. When you say something (or even promise) you should fulfil that. Obviously he's professional so he'll do what he's told to do, but that doesn't exclude him possibly being unhappy with the way Orica are treating him. Already he might have reason know. BUt maybe changing programme to Dauphine was mutual.

DO we know for certain that he was going to be riding Suisse then got "yanked" into Dauphine ... or is this again supposition ? Dauphine is where most teams are looking to get things working (esp between key components) of their Tour line-ups; given that Kreuziger WAS signed with the understanding that he'd be in the Tour line-up then it makes sense that he is there rather than Suisse given this is his first year at this team and he had 0 race miles with Chaves beforehand.

COULD he have been better employed at this race ?? Again, in 20/20 hindsight .... yes. Ideally you may've sent him up the road in today's main break with a message "if its good, go for it" but the problem was that whilst both Chaves & SY lost time the previous day, they weren't disastrous haemorrages of major time that took them way out of top 10 calculations. NOW we know that Chaves is looking better if still someway off his top whilst SY is definitely not on form. As it was today it was clearly NOT the case that Kreuziger was keeping an ailing SY company given they finished over 3 min apart.

For some reason thought Stephen's was the DS - Anyway it's been an extremely conservative approach by Orica.
 
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Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
yaco said:
Think he is in decent shape but is being held back helping a struggling S.Yates - I suspect he will ride better and get more opportunities under DS White who allows his riders more freedom - DS Stephens is all for the leader -AFAIK Kreuziger was never riding Suisse.

Stephens is not the DS at this race. its Lapage.

Frankschleck said:
I really feel that orica held him back in the spring classics, where especcially in liege, he looked like the strongest after valverde.

Lovely to have 20/20 hindsight, he was certainly strong in the Ardennes but its only really Liege where arguably he should've been given license to ride for himself. Albasini was in the move that mattered at Amstel and Kreiziger has never been top 10 at Fleche. Would he have finished higher than both Albasini and/or AY ?? Can only be supposition on our part but perhaps he SHOULD've been given the chance.

Kokoso said:
Well I thought it would be good for him to be a mentor and worker for others and have his chances here and there. I hope he'll get stage hunter, too. If De Gendt can be succesful stage hunter, Kreuziger could be too and even better, cause I consider him better of the two. Problem is, unlike De Gendt, until now everybody is alert when Kreuziger gets to the break. Just it's a bit frustrating seeing him work for guys who undeperform and he could get that results as well.

Forgot about Tour de Suisse which he was designed to lead by Orica but Orica (once again) put him in service for Yates and Chaves at Dauphine (where both are bad until now at least). I am not sure Orica acts clever towards Kreuziger, looks like they're acting way you don't want to make friends. When you say something (or even promise) you should fulfil that. Obviously he's professional so he'll do what he's told to do, but that doesn't exclude him possibly being unhappy with the way Orica are treating him. Already he might have reason know. BUt maybe changing programme to Dauphine was mutual.

DO we know for certain that he was going to be riding Suisse then got "yanked" into Dauphine ... or is this again supposition ? Dauphine is where most teams are looking to get things working (esp between key components) of their Tour line-ups; given that Kreuziger WAS signed with the understanding that he'd be in the Tour line-up then it makes sense that he is there rather than Suisse given this is his first year at this team and he had 0 race miles with Chaves beforehand.

COULD he have been better employed at this race ?? Again, in 20/20 hindsight .... yes. Ideally you may've sent him up the road in today's main break with a message "if its good, go for it" but the problem was that whilst both Chaves & SY lost time the previous day, they weren't disastrous haemorrages of major time that took them way out of top 10 calculations. NOW we know that Chaves is looking better if still someway off his top whilst SY is definitely not on form. As it was today it was clearly NOT the case that Kreuziger was keeping an ailing SY company given they finished over 3 min apart.
As for Tour de Suisse, I'm sorry for that as I've said earlier, just if you've read properly you'd know it.
What's with all that 20/20 hindsights? Nobody was blaming anybody. You're too defensive. Also you could think once or twice about foresight :)
P.S. Kreuziger finished in top ten at Fleche Wallone once.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
As for Tour de Suisse, I'm sorry for that as I've said earlier, just if you've read properly you'd know it.
What's with all that 20/20 hindsights? Nobody was blaming anybody. You're too defensive. Also you could think once or twice about foresight :)
P.S. Kreuziger finished in top ten at Fleche Wallone once.

No hard feelings or any animosity is intended from my end (hey, we're both biathlon & cross country skiing fans !!) and you did "walk back" the assertion regarding the Tour De Suisse (I must have skimmed past a short post) so apologies from my part.

It has been you that has been putting forward the argument that Kreuziger is being mishandled by Orica. In a way, I'm not necessarily opposed to what you are saying as I remember a previous exchange on another thread where I put forward the view that "it's still far from clear whether Kreuziger and Orica will work out or not".

The point I was making about 20/20 hindsight was not fully pointed at you but also at others on this and other threads who were stating Orica should have sent Kreuziger up the road/let him stage hunt. I personally think that the Orica DS at this race was overly conservative but none of us here know exactly how each and everyone of the riders have been health-wise and legs-wise and until today, whilst Chaves & SY has dropped some time, it hadn't been major blow-outs to the extent of saying 'forget all GC, lets just stage hunt"

Have no misunderstanding, I regard Kreuziger as an exceptionally talented rider .... his record makes that clear. However, riders and teams are a matter of personal chemistry and there's no perfect formula for knowing what situation will work out for whom. As yet, its unclear how this one will work out and I'm not going to say make any firm comment until we see hard tangible evidence either way.

As for giving him opportunities to ride for himself so far this season, its hard to point out too many real missed opportunities with also the issue that they've needed to pull a number of switches due to the Chaves situation. Arguably they COULD have given him a "pass" on one of these Dauphine stages ... but do you or I know just how his legs have been ? Ardennes week ..... perhaps he could've been a 2nd/3rd option for some of those races but Albasini was clearly on form and deserved top seeding. Liege - perhaps but was he necessarily going better than his 2 team mates who top 10'd ? You ARE correct ... he has 1 top 10 at Fleche; the counter is that Albasini rides top 10 there basically every year and has 3 podiums so I know where I'd be putting my money unless there's some mid-race incident that forces a change of plans.

Looking later season, perhaps there ARE some opportunities for him with the 2 Laurentian races where I'd have no issue with him being at least option B and likewise with Lombardie. He'll probably be too spent after the Tour for San Sebastian to be viable. Bretagne is perhaps a possibility but more as a B option behind a puncheur

Next season ... well there could be some changes but first we'll need to see the routes for the 3 GTs and see which suits who. I certainly don't think Orica will make the mistake of bringing Chaves out to AUS again !! Where some opportunites could open up for Kreuziger is especially the Ardennes as I think Gerrans may well retire at the end of this season. They WILL probably look to bring young Haig into some of these races but at least next year purely for exposure and experience. Albasini COULD retire but given this season's form I expect him to continue. With Gerrans gone, I could at least see Kreuziger as A/B option for Amstel, B/C option for Fleche and LBL as I cpuld see at least 1 Yates coming in for 2 races

Anyway, peace my friend ..... and lets see how the Kreuziger/Orica relationship works out.
 
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Re: Re:

dirkprovin said:
Kokoso said:
As for Tour de Suisse, I'm sorry for that as I've said earlier, just if you've read properly you'd know it.
What's with all that 20/20 hindsights? Nobody was blaming anybody. You're too defensive. Also you could think once or twice about foresight :)
P.S. Kreuziger finished in top ten at Fleche Wallone once.

No hard feelings or any animosity is intended from my end (hey, we're both biathlon & cross country skiing fans !!) and you did "walk back" the assertion regarding the Tour De Suisse (I must have skimmed past a short post) so apologies from my part.

It has been you that has been putting forward the argument that Kreuziger is being mishandled by Orica. In a way, I'm not necessarily opposed to what you are saying as I remember a previous exchange on another thread where I put forward the view that "it's still far from clear whether Kreuziger and Orica will work out or not".

The point I was making about 20/20 hindsight was not fully pointed at you but also at others on this and other threads who were stating Orica should have sent Kreuziger up the road/let him stage hunt. I personally think that the Orica DS at this race was overly conservative but none of us here know exactly how each and everyone of the riders have been health-wise and legs-wise and until today, whilst Chaves & SY has dropped some time, it hadn't been major blow-outs to the extent of saying 'forget all GC, lets just stage hunt"

Have no misunderstanding, I regard Kreuziger as an exceptionally talented rider .... his record makes that clear. However, riders and teams are a matter of personal chemistry and there's no perfect formula for knowing what situation will work out for whom. As yet, its unclear how this one will work out and I'm not going to say make any firm comment until we see hard tangible evidence either way.

As for giving him opportunities to ride for himself so far this season, its hard to point out too many real missed opportunities with also the issue that they've needed to pull a number of switches due to the Chaves situation. Arguably they COULD have given him a "pass" on one of these Dauphine stages ... but do you or I know just how his legs have been ? Ardennes week ..... perhaps he could've been a 2nd/3rd option for some of those races but Albasini was clearly on form and deserved top seeding. Liege - perhaps but was he necessarily going better than his 2 team mates who top 10'd ? You ARE correct ... he has 1 top 10 at Fleche; the counter is that Albasini rides top 10 there basically every year and has 3 podiums so I know where I'd be putting my money unless there's some mid-race incident that forces a change of plans.

Looking later season, perhaps there ARE some opportunities for him with the 2 Laurentian races where I'd have no issue with him being at least option B and likewise with Lombardie. He'll probably be too spent after the Tour for San Sebastian to be viable. Bretagne is perhaps a possibility but more as a B option behind a puncheur

Next season ... well there could be some changes but first we'll need to see the routes for the 3 GTs and see which suits who. I certainly don't think Orica will make the mistake of bringing Chaves out to AUS again !! Where some opportunites could open up for Kreuziger is especially the Ardennes as I think Gerrans may well retire at the end of this season. They WILL probably look to bring young Haig into some of these races but at least next year purely for exposure and experience. Albasini COULD retire but given this season's form I expect him to continue. With Gerrans gone, I could at least see Kreuziger as A/B option for Amstel, B/C option for Fleche and LBL as I cpuld see at least 1 Yates coming in for 2 races

Anyway, peace my friend ..... and lets see how the Kreuziger/Orica relationship works out.
I'd put my money on Albasini at Fleche, too. I've just corrected you, that's it. As for rest of the Ardennes, at Amstel Kreuziger crashed so talk about that is pointless (I haven't even talked about Amstel). As for Liege, I don't blame Orica DS for anything, but seeing how strong he is he could switch for Kreuziger in place of Adam Yates. If he did so, he'd have justification for that given his previous results there. But hard decisioning and we weren't there, so again, I don't blame DS. Personally I think he'd end 7th there at worst (which is how Albasini ended).

Tirreno-Adriatico, Tour de Romandie are certainly missed oportunities, be it for ilness, crash, or lack of form. Oman arguably, but that was his first race. Liege kind of, depends on how you look at it. In a way he had very good showing there, better than any other from Orica. Result wise it was not good. It depends whether you can call that missed oportunity when it was DS's decision so can't make anything with that.
 
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So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.
 
Kokoso said:
So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.

That is a possible scenario but may revolve around how much flexibility they may wish to give him during the race. Am thinking Kreuziger will be SY's "lieutenant"/minder for the mountains just as Howson will be for Chaves.
 
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dirkprovin said:
Kokoso said:
So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.

That is a possible scenario but may revolve around how much flexibility they may wish to give him during the race. Am thinking Kreuziger will be SY's "lieutenant"/minder for the mountains just as Howson will be for Chaves.
He can do both.
 
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yaco said:
Kokoso said:
So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.

Should be road captain but it may be Gerrans - Will be road captain with Keukeliere at the Vuelta.
Idealy you need someone who can be with them everywhere, including mountains. With all respect to Simon Gerrans, I doubt he is capable of that. So his use as a road captain is somewhat limited. At least at the mountains you need someone else doing road captain and Roman is good choice. He's very experienced, can move very well in the peloton and did it many times already.
 
Kokoso said:
yaco said:
Kokoso said:
So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.

Should be road captain but it may be Gerrans - Will be road captain with Keukeliere at the Vuelta.
Idealy you need someone who can be with them everywhere, including mountains. With all respect to Simon Gerrans, I doubt he is capable of that. So his use as a road captain is somewhat limited. At least at the mountains you need someone else doing road captain and Roman is good choice. He's very experienced, can move very well in the peloton and did it many times already.

With respect, I may beg differ. NOT with regards to Kreuziger's overall capacities or capability to fill this role but rather with the overall descriptor for a "road captain". Not all those who have been designated "road captain" at GTs or have been seen as successful "road captains" have necessarily been amongst the last men standing in the mountains. Rather their job is that of organising the team, being the primary link man to the DS in the car and if needs be improvise tactical changes on the road.

Not saying that Kreuziger cannot or should not have that role but others may also be considered for said role. We also need to realise that this is Kreziger's first year at the team and whilst he's chalked up a number of races with some on the likely Tour squad (esp SY); he has limited to negligble race miles with others. I would not complain if he IS designated this role but neither will I be in any way "put out' if he isn't. IF it were the case that he was going to be racing 2 GTs this year rather than just the Tour then I'd be all the more happier seeing this be in place at the 2nd GT ...... after we've seen how well he has gelled with the rest of the team and how they react to him.
 
Kokoso said:
yaco said:
Kokoso said:
So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.

Should be road captain but it may be Gerrans - Will be road captain with Keukeliere at the Vuelta.
Idealy you need someone who can be with them everywhere, including mountains. With all respect to Simon Gerrans, I doubt he is capable of that. So his use as a road captain is somewhat limited. At least at the mountains you need someone else doing road captain and Roman is good choice. He's very experienced, can move very well in the peloton and did it many times already.

It would probably be better for Kreuziger if Gerrans was road captain. Gerrans won't be there in the high mountains but he is very experienced and now that his best days are behind him, he has been playing more of a team role. Then Kreuziger could concentrate on doing the mountain domestique job which is what he is mainly there for and he will only have to worry about a few riders not the whole team. If things go badly for Orica GC wise then he might even get a chance to go for a stage.
 
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dirkprovin said:
Kokoso said:
yaco said:
Kokoso said:
So he is nominated for Tour de France (his 8th). Probably he will be road captain there as he was at Dauphine. For sure he'll take care of Esteban and Yates as in the rest of the season.

Should be road captain but it may be Gerrans - Will be road captain with Keukeliere at the Vuelta.
Idealy you need someone who can be with them everywhere, including mountains. With all respect to Simon Gerrans, I doubt he is capable of that. So his use as a road captain is somewhat limited. At least at the mountains you need someone else doing road captain and Roman is good choice. He's very experienced, can move very well in the peloton and did it many times already.

With respect, I may beg differ. NOT with regards to Kreuziger's overall capacities or capability to fill this role but rather with the overall descriptor for a "road captain". Not all those who have been designated "road captain" at GTs or have been seen as successful "road captains" have necessarily been amongst the last men standing in the mountains. Rather their job is that of organising the team, being the primary link man to the DS in the car and if needs be improvise tactical changes on the road.

Not saying that Kreuziger cannot or should not have that role but others may also be considered for said role. We also need to realise that this is Kreziger's first year at the team and whilst he's chalked up a number of races with some on the likely Tour squad (esp SY); he has limited to negligble race miles with others. I would not complain if he IS designated this role but neither will I be in any way "put out' if he isn't. IF it were the case that he was going to be racing 2 GTs this year rather than just the Tour then I'd be all the more happier seeing this be in place at the 2nd GT ...... after we've seen how well he has gelled with the rest of the team and how they react to him.
But I didn't decript road captain as a rider able to stay with leader at the mountains. That's your wishful thinking, or how to say it. So you disagree that ideally road captain is capable of riding with leaders everywhere including mountains. I think you are wrong on this.
 
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Pretty bad Tour de France form. Something went wrong. I wonder whether fact that Orica didn't take him for the altitude camp with some others before the Tour (i.e. leaders) has to do something with that. I thought altitude camp is staple of preparation.
 
Its a case of Kreuziger probably feeling too comfortable in his role at Orica. He wanted to join the team and is extremely happy at the team. He enjoys the atmosphere in the team finding it less pressured than his previous teams. Which could be the reason for his under performance. In saying that he has been an invaluable aid for the younger riders. Expect he will ride a better Vuelta.

Altitude training. My understanding is Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp. Durbridge was coming back from injury so his situation was understandable. Fact is only Yates and Keukelere performed well at the TDF while the rest were underwhelming.
 
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Re:

alexix7 said:
Roman said that he made a mistake in TdF preparation so he would be on his best level somewhere in the end of imaginary fourth week of TdF.
Actually he said we made a mistake, not he himself and said nothing about that he would be at his best level at imaginary fourth week.
 
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Re:

yaco said:
Its a case of Kreuziger probably feeling too comfortable in his role at Orica. He wanted to join the team and is extremely happy at the team. He enjoys the atmosphere in the team finding it less pressured than his previous teams. Which could be the reason for his under performance. In saying that he has been an invaluable aid for the younger riders. Expect he will ride a better Vuelta.

Altitude training. My understanding is Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp. Durbridge was coming back from injury so his situation was understandable. Fact is only Yates and Keukeliere performed well at the TDF while the rest were undetwhelmong.
So according to you it's probably a case of feeling too good at Orica and has nothing to do with no altitude camp preparation. Interesting.

Aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp".

Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?

Regarding Keukeleire, he didn't show anything significant so his form at Tour is a question. At the stage where Albasini worked for him Boasson Hagen was much better than Keukeleire, so...it doesn't look he was very good.
 
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Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
yaco said:
Its a case of Kreuziger probably feeling too comfortable in his role at Orica. He wanted to join the team and is extremely happy at the team. He enjoys the atmosphere in the team finding it less pressured than his previous teams. Which could be the reason for his under performance. In saying that he has been an invaluable aid for the younger riders. Expect he will ride a better Vuelta.

Altitude training. My understanding is Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp. Durbridge was coming back from injury so his situation was understandable. Fact is only Yates and Keukeliere performed well at the TDF while the rest were undetwhelmong.
So according to you it's probably a case of feeling too good at Orica and has nothing to do with no altitude camp preparation. Interesting.

Aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp".

Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?

Regarding Keukeleire, he didn't show anything significant so his form at Tour is a question. At the stage where Albasini worked for him Boasson Hagen was much better than Keukeleire, so...it doesn't look he was very good.
No answer? Why?
Forgot question mark - aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp"?

Why do you think Kreuziger underperorming has probably to do wh him feeling comfortable there and ot with no altitude camp before the Tour? (actually you avoided cometing on altitude camp at all) Do you think rest of the team underperforming is probably because of them feeling comfortable with the team, too? Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?
Thank you for answers.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
Kokoso said:
yaco said:
Its a case of Kreuziger probably feeling too comfortable in his role at Orica. He wanted to join the team and is extremely happy at the team. He enjoys the atmosphere in the team finding it less pressured than his previous teams. Which could be the reason for his under performance. In saying that he has been an invaluable aid for the younger riders. Expect he will ride a better Vuelta.

Altitude training. My understanding is Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp. Durbridge was coming back from injury so his situation was understandable. Fact is only Yates and Keukeliere performed well at the TDF while the rest were undetwhelmong.
So according to you it's probably a case of feeling too good at Orica and has nothing to do with no altitude camp preparation. Interesting.

Aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp".

Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?

Regarding Keukeleire, he didn't show anything significant so his form at Tour is a question. At the stage where Albasini worked for him Boasson Hagen was much better than Keukeleire, so...it doesn't look he was very good.
No answer? Why?
Forgot question mark - aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp"?

Why do you think Kreuziger underperorming has probably to do wh him feeling comfortable there and ot with no altitude camp before the Tour? (actually you avoided cometing on altitude camp at all) Do you think rest of the team underperforming is probably because of them feeling comfortable with the team, too? Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?
Thank you for answers.

Kreuziger is happy at Orica, but it doesn't change the fact he has under-performed so far this year - I pointed out in this thread and in the Orica thread, the team as a whole, under-performed in the TDF, except for Yates and Keukeliere - My understanding is there were two specific altitude camps for the TDF and Kreuziger, Hayman and Albasini weren't at one of these camps - The reason why ? I have no idea - I also believed Keukeliere missed one of the camps because he preferred to race.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Kokoso said:
Kokoso said:
yaco said:
Its a case of Kreuziger probably feeling too comfortable in his role at Orica. He wanted to join the team and is extremely happy at the team. He enjoys the atmosphere in the team finding it less pressured than his previous teams. Which could be the reason for his under performance. In saying that he has been an invaluable aid for the younger riders. Expect he will ride a better Vuelta.

Altitude training. My understanding is Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp. Durbridge was coming back from injury so his situation was understandable. Fact is only Yates and Keukeliere performed well at the TDF while the rest were undetwhelmong.
So according to you it's probably a case of feeling too good at Orica and has nothing to do with no altitude camp preparation. Interesting.

Aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp".

Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?

Regarding Keukeleire, he didn't show anything significant so his form at Tour is a question. At the stage where Albasini worked for him Boasson Hagen was much better than Keukeleire, so...it doesn't look he was very good.
No answer? Why?
Forgot question mark - aren't more convenient words "team didn't take Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge for altitude camp" rather than "Kreuziger, Hayman and Durbridge didnt attend one of the pre TDF altitude camp"?

Why do you think Kreuziger underperorming has probably to do wh him feeling comfortable there and ot with no altitude camp before the Tour? (actually you avoided cometing on altitude camp at all) Do you think rest of the team underperforming is probably because of them feeling comfortable with the team, too? Where dou you get these information's about he feels at Orica etc. from?
Thank you for answers.

Kreuziger is happy at Orica, but it doesn't change the fact he has under-performed so far this year - I pointed out in this thread and in the Orica thread, the team as a whole, under-performed in the TDF, except for Yates and Keukeliere - My understanding is there were two specific altitude camps for the TDF and Kreuziger, Hayman and Albasini weren't at one of these camps - The reason why ? I have no idea - I also believed Keukeliere missed one of the camps because he preferred to race.

I'd take a middle line between your viewpoints. My view is that he has rode well this without being exceptional. How much of this has been his form and how much of this has been him riding in support roles rather than having opportunities of his own. With regards to the latter, perhaps he could've been given a chance to ride for himself at at least one Ardennes race but that's been and gone. Maybe he could be given an opportunity at Bretagne or the two Laurentian races ?
 

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