Rooks admits to EPO use

[anubisza]

Reference: http://www.velonews.com/article/93581/rooks-admits-to-epo-use

Dutch cycling great Steven Rooks became the latest retired cyclist to confess to taking EPO in a book released this week.

The 48-year-old - second in the 1988 Tour de France when he won the classic Alpe d'Huez stage - admits in the book about the Tour de France "Het laatste geel" (The last yellow) that he resorted to taking the drug after his best years were behind him.

"Yes, I took EPO. It was necessary in order to compete at the highest level," said Rooks.

The Dutch rider also took the King of the Mountains jersey in the 1988 Tour, in which he finished second to winner Pedro Delgado, trailing by 7:13.

However, Rooks, who also won the one-day classics Liège-Bastogne-Liège in
1983 and the Amstel Gold Race in 1986, insisted he had only started taking EPO after 1989 when he finished seventh overall in the Tour and won a stage.

 

[BigBoat]

The first real epo Tour was 91... After that everyone was on epo! Their Dogs too! LOL

 

[anubisza]

So, arguably:

EPO, influencing Tour results since '91 ®

 

[pmcg76]

I would imagine about a quarter or less of the 91 Tour de France peloton were on EPO. The Italians, especially Ariostea who I believe were the first big users, 4 stages including TTT and two were by nobody riders.

Looking at the results from the 91 Tour, its hard to gauge, first three, maybe. Charly Mottet was 4th and even Willy Voet reckoned Mottet was one of the few clean riders. Luc Leblanc and Laurent Fignon were next and even though Fignon admitted to doping, I dont think he ever took EPO. Next was LeMond so I dont think everyone in front of him was on EPO. Apart from two bad days, LeMond had a good Tour, he lost very little time to Indurain in the TTs.

Next was Pedro Delgado. If Indurain was on the sauce, what was team-mate Delgado on because his performances were going backwards. Rooks was well down and actually finished behind well-known anti-doper Gilles Delion so if he was on EPO then, it didnt do much for him. Hard to analyse really but I agree 91 was the first Tour were EPO was a factor. Still not the reason LeMond didnt win though.

 

[anubisza]

Your reasoning is good, but I think past experience has taught us not to make any assumptions about how clean any riders are - we're more likely to be disappointed than not.

 

[pmcg76]

I agree but I usually judge on what I have heard about certain riders and their attitues. Willy Voet slammed so many guys, its hard to believe he would protect anybody like Mottet. I believe Fignon as well, a smart guy who is not hypocritical, remember his famous line about Indurain being an 'extra-terrestial' in the 92 Tour. With the benefit of hindsight, a slightly veiled accusation of EPO usage methinks.

 

[Kennf1]

I would imagine about a quarter or less of the 91 Tour de France peloton were on EPO. The Italians, especially Ariostea who I believe were the first big users, 4 stages including TTT and two were by nobody riders.

Looking at the results from the 91 Tour, its hard to gauge, first three, maybe. Charly Mottet was 4th and even Willy Voet reckoned Mottet was one of the few clean riders. Luc Leblanc and Laurent Fignon were next and even though Fignon admitted to doping, I dont think he ever took EPO. Next was LeMond so I dont think everyone in front of him was on EPO. Apart from two bad days, LeMond had a good Tour, he lost very little time to Indurain in the TTs.

Next was Pedro Delgado. If Indurain was on the sauce, what was team-mate Delgado on because his performances were going backwards. Rooks was well down and actually finished behind well-known anti-doper Gilles Delion so if he was on EPO then, it didnt do much for him. Hard to analyse really but I agree 91 was the first Tour were EPO was a factor. Still not the reason LeMond didnt win though.

I'm going to nominate Chiapucci as the first Italian to really hit the EPO hard.

 

[pmcg76]

I think Argentin was the first guy, he was the guy most associated with Dr.Ferrari and always credited his renewed performances to Ferrari. He won Tour of Flanders, Fleche Wallone and a stage in the Tour 1990 after a few relative lean seasons. Then in 1991/92 all of the Ariostea team were flying.

I still think Chiappucci got lucky in 1990 Tour but probably started after that once he got the taste of fame.

 

[nobody]

EPO use don't give magically more 20-25% power after a single injection.

Ekblom reported an average of 3-5% increase of power after a single injection.
I doubt that in 1990 or 91 riders were using EPO on training and all days on GT.

 

[Bala Verde]

If you compare 90 and 91 you'll see that some who were >10 minutes behind 'clean' Lemond, finished before him by 10 minutes the next year. That's making up 20 minutes in one year...

1 Greg LeMond United States Z Clothing 90h 43' 20"
2 Claudio Chiappucci Italy Carrera Jeans-Vagabond 2' 16"
3 Erik Breukink Netherlands PDM 2' 29"
4 Pedro Delgado Spain Banesto 5' 01"
5 Marino Lejarreta Spain Once 5' 03"
6 Eduardo Chozas Spain Once 9' 14"
7 Gianni Bugno Italy Chateau D'Ax 9' 39"
8 Raúl Alcalá Mexico PDM 11' 14"
9 Claude Criquielion Belgium Lotto-Superclub-MBK 12' 04"
10 Miguel Indurain Spain Banesto 12' 47"


1 Miguel Indurain Spain Team Banesto 101h01'20"
2 Gianni Bugno Italy 3' 36"
3 Claudio Chiappucci Italy 5' 56"
4 Charly Mottet France 7' 37"
5 Luc Leblanc France 10' 10"
6 Laurent Fignon France 11' 27"
7 Greg LeMond United States 13' 13"
8 Andrew Hampsten United States 13' 40"
9 Pedro Delgado Spain 20' 10"
10 Gérard Rué France 20' 13"

That's why I am also interested in the life of Breukink, who was young and promising in the days of Lemond, even managed to get in 3rd in '90 and then barely ever approached those performances again. He did ride for some tainted teams, but since he never lived up to his expactations anymore, he could have just been hired by the biggies since he was so talented, after which he indicated that he did not want be on the program.

Obviously, all speculation here.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Epo wasn't forbidden (or on the "black list") those days. Not untill 1997

 

[eric_vv]

Maybe Breukink got scared by the PDM affaire and didn't take any risks with doping. Not that he was neccessarily clean but just not on the same levels as his rivals.

 

[Anonymous]

I think what we see from the results from 91 on is the progression of testing (in this case meaning scientifically approaching) using the drug. Of course in 91 the effectiveness is lessened, and it was still possible to win without it. It is like anything, as you go along you begin to learn precisely how to use a drug like that. Thinking it is as simple as injecting it and then going on and winning is erroneous. If it was that simple, there would have been no need for men like Ferrari. His genius was in refining its usage (and the usage of other substances) to produce the maximum effect. He also then had to begin finding the ways to trick the drug tests. I detest what Ferrari is as a physician, but I also recognize that he is a genius, literally, at what he does.

 

[Bala Verde]

Maybe Breukink got scared by the PDM affaire and didn't take any risks with doping. Not that he was neccessarily clean but just not on the same levels as his rivals.

That's what I was thinking about as well. That Intralipid affaire in 1991, where the whole team reported sick, after having been administered a 'soy based fat' supplement to speed up recovery, must have had some impact on those guys. I mean, in a documentary some involved, say they had never felt so sick before in their lives. They must have thought they'd drop dead on the spot!

 

[Snake8]

If you compare 90 and 91 you'll see that some who were >10 minutes behind 'clean' Lemond, finished before him by 10 minutes the next year. That's making up 20 minutes in one year...

Obviously, all speculation here.

Not picking on you Bala, but just want to make the point that you really cannot use this type of reasoning/speculation to determine anything about drug use. There are always going to be way too many other factors that could have an impact to create a twenty minute difference, and though doping is sure to be one of those factors, just as likely is age, team, form, weather, course, competition and a million other things. Its not like if people were not doping bike racing would be entirely predictable...

So, perhaps the only thing we really know from Rooks is that: doping with EPO started earlier than many thought, and that it did not make Rooks superman.

 

[pmcg76]

Correct me if I am wrong, but according to Willy Voet the former RMO guys were miles behind the former PDM guys in terms of doping practices when they were all on the Festina team in 1993.

I see what you are saying about Breukinks performances dropping off, so did a lot of former PDM riders, but Rooks was taking EPO and he was absolute rubbish in the 90s. I would also be suspicious of anyone who was at ONCE in that era.

 

[pmcg76]

Not picking on you Bala, but just want to make the point that you really cannot use this type of reasoning/speculation to determine anything about drug use. There are always going to be way too many other factors that could have an impact to create a twenty minute difference, and though doping is sure to be one of those factors, just as likely is age, team, form, weather, course, competition and a million other things. Its not like if people were not doping bike racing would be entirely predictable...

I agree with this.

Not defending Indurain or saying he was clean but I remember the 1990 Tour, if he had rode his own race instead of waiting and pacing teamleader, Delgado, he would have been at least Top 3, maybe even LeMonds closest challenger. Maybe it would be more appropiate to look how he went from riding in the mountains with a guy like Paul Kimmage in the 80s to being a good climber.

 

[Escarabajo]

I agree but I usually judge on what I have heard about certain riders and their attitues. Willy Voet slammed so many guys, its hard to believe he would protect anybody like Mottet. I believe Fignon as well, a smart guy who is not hypocritical, remember his famous line about Indurain being an 'extra-terrestial' in the 92 Tour. With the benefit of hindsight, a slightly veiled accusation of EPO usage methinks.

Yes, they used it but we don't know how aggresive they were in their use either. Too many unknowns for the Tour 91.

 

[Bala Verde]

Not picking on you Bala, but just want to make the point that you really cannot use this type of reasoning/speculation to determine anything about drug use. There are always going to be way too many other factors that could have an impact to create a twenty minute difference, and though doping is sure to be one of those factors, just as likely is age, team, form, weather, course, competition and a million other things. Its not like if people were not doping bike racing would be entirely predictable...

So, perhaps the only thing we really know from Rooks is that: doping with EPO started earlier than many thought, and that it did not make Rooks superman.

Agreed, that's why I added the disclaimer. The team obviously made the wrong decision in the 90 TdF to not have Indurain as a team captain!

Nonetheless, what would anyone say if one year Lance Armstrong wins the tour de France and the next year he is beaten by someone who was 10-15 minutes behind him in his winning year. Or let's say that Sastre was clean in 2008, and this year he gets beaten by Valjavec (who is not attending this year's TdF because his wife is expecting a baby... UPS or FEDEX I believe) while Sastre finishes 10 minutes behind him... Anyhow, still all's speculation

If we can trust Rooks, we know that EPO was finding its way to the Peloton in between perhaps 89-91, merely as an introduction and with no set hematocrit caps. As Rooks also stated, still assuming we can trust him, he always took it with a doctor, who urged him to not go over 50%, as that could be dangerous (blood cloths, coagulation). So it seems he wasn't willing to take the risk to overfeed himself, especially since, as he stated, he already had a high natural (48%) hematorcrit. Perhaps he didn't become superman, because others were pedalling around as mr 60%s...

 

[BroDeal]

I think if we want to trace the beginning of effective EPO use we should look at the clients of Dr. Conconi during the 89 - 91 time frame. We see Bugno win the Giro in 1990, leading from start to finish; Indurain win the Tour in 1991; and Chiappucci come out of nowhere and place 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd in the 1990, 1991, and 1992 TdFs.

We could probably find single day races won by Conconi clients in the Spring of 1990 or Fall of1989 that now look suspicious. These would probably be Italian events.

I tend to believe that Bugno's 1990 Giro was the D-Day event where Conconi put EPO to its big test. Conconi's riders placed one, two, three in the 1991 TdF.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Good point BroDeal.

Part of why Lemond lost in 1991 was that he exhausted himself on the climbs leading up to Val Loran, attacking riders he normally should have been able to drop, faking attacks, and then covering breaks until he was wiped. Had he just rode along, he probably would have finished near Bugno, 3 minutes back, not losing 7 minutes. Regardless of who was doped. According to David Walsh, EPO was in full-on widespread use in 1994. But I think 1992 or 1993 was maybe more like it. But it had to have been used in 1991, by all accounts.

XC skiers were testing EPO prior to 1990. But even then it wasn't until the 1994 Olympics when it was highly suspicious of being systematically used and altering the outcomes. Like Lemond and Fignon in 1991, the Norwegians missed the boat then and their "Dream Team" got beat on their home turf by skiers they normally crushed. Though by most accounts, they wised up after that, if you know what I mean.

 

[BigBoat]

I think Argentin was the first guy, he was the guy most associated with Dr.Ferrari and always credited his renewed performances to Ferrari. He won Tour of Flanders, Fleche Wallone and a stage in the Tour 1990 after a few relative lean seasons. Then in 1991/92 all of the Ariostea team were flying.

I still think Chiappucci got lucky in 1990 Tour but probably started after that once he got the taste of fame.

Everybody was clearly jacked by 1992... Yet Dr. Ferrari's clients still dominated... Why didnt anyone say "WTF?" And especially when Vino announced he was working with Ferrari 15 years later They F-ing allowed him into the Tour so.... then they should allow doping (legalize it.) Why did they suspend him when he went positive...why? They cant have it both ways.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I thought Vino was one of your favorite guys?

Indurain completely dominated the 1992 Tour. He crushed everyone in that first ITT beyond comprehension. It's one of the most dominant performances in cycling history. Actually, almost all of his Tours he dominated. But Conconi was his doctor, no? Same with Bugno. The main Ferrari GC guy was Rominger, and they had a split somewhere around 1994 or so (though he probably just went to another doctor).

Sorry, if I'm mixing some of this up, but pretty sure that's how it went down.

 

[BigBoat]

I thought Vino was one of your favorite guys?

Indurain completely dominated the 1992 Tour. He crushed everyone in that first ITT beyond comprehension. It's one of the most dominant performances in cycling history. Actually, almost all of his Tours he dominated. But Conconi was his doctor, no? Same with Bugno. The main Ferrari GC guy was Rominger, and they had a split somewhere around 1994 or so (though he probably just went to another doctor).

Sorry, if I'm mixing some of this up, but pretty sure that's how it went down.

Padilla worked with Indurain... Padilla was a doping doctor not a training "guru."

I LOVE vino! I said... why did the UCI even let him in if their against doping? Oh he can ride! Good, good, time for a good show. But then they take him down. Why? If you allow Dr. Ferrari into the Tour than doping must be legal.

 

[BroDeal]

I forgot about Argentin. Client of Ferrari rather than Conconi. Started working with Ferrari in 1989. Won the Italian national champs in 1989 after a dry spell. Two big wins in the Spring of 1990. Two more in the Spring of 1991.

I think I will move the significant pro use back to the Italian nationals in 1989.

I still looks like that in 1990 there was only a small handful of top level pros using EPO, none of whom targeted the Tour. By 1991 the flood gates began to open, and the Tour was never the same.