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Rooks admits to EPO use

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Alpe d'Huez said:
Indurain completely dominated the 1992 Tour. He crushed everyone in that first ITT beyond comprehension. It's one of the most dominant performances in cycling history. Actually, almost all of his Tours he dominated. But Conconi was his doctor, no?

Indurain started out as a client of Conconi. At some point during his reign he switched doctors.

That 1992 ITT was the wake up moment for me when combined with Indurain easily climbing with small climbing specialists. It was so ridiculous that I suspect that Indurain intentionally dialed his performance back a little. It seemed like he would do just enough to win.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I think maybe the time has come for the ASO and the UCI to issue an amnesty so all past dopers can come clean and then we can try and work out who was where.

Riis looses his yello jersey just for coming clean but Fignon has just done the same and allowed to keep his
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Snake8 said:
So, perhaps the only thing we really know from Rooks is that: doping with EPO started earlier than many thought, and that it did not make Rooks superman.

In the book in which Rooks reveals to have used EPO, he tells he started doing it when the Gewiss train started winning all the races (Argentin, Berzin, Furlan). That would have been in '94. Rooks' carreer was already downhill at that moment. He raced untill 95. He claimed his natural hematocrite was 48, so he couldnt use much of it. So he never got to profit from it. Oddly enough Gert-Jan Theunisse denies all doping questions asked to him. I must admit, he sounded sincere. He was upset he is known for being a drug user and others, like Zoetemelk and Van der Poel, who have been positive in he far past never had this name of being a drug user.

All the Dutch who participated in the 89 TdF talk about the Italians suddenly being unbeatable. And they are quite upset about it also. Most of their carreers ended before the mid 90's. Even from the young and talented, like Frans Maassen. Jelle Nijdam told he focussed on domestic races like De Panne and Tour of Netherlands, because he wasnt able to keep up anymore.

An interesting statement about Miguel Indurain was made. The writer of the book, Mart Smeets, told about one night in the TFD he saw Indurain walking outside. In the middle of the night. Later he found out, that appearently EPO-users were woken up a few times a night by their teams. It was supposed to be dangerous to fall a sleep to deep when on EPO.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Still think EPO started in 1990 though. 1988 and 1989 were dramatic years for Italian cycling (with the exception of Fondriests lucky worldchampionship). In 1990 the Italians started winning dramatically (Argentin, Bugno, Chiappucci). Then the following years nobody's like Cassani, Cenghialta, Saligari, Riis (Ariostea, Gewiss) became top level riders. New young riders as Berzin, Rebellin, Bartoli, Casagrande and Pantani were top-riders in their first year of pro-cycling. According to the eye-witnesses (the Dutch 89 TdF-riders) it was big in Italy and Spain at the beginning.

It just took some years for other countries to adapt to the EPO-situation. You can see that Italian domination was not so big anymore by the end of he ninetees.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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One last comment: I think it was big in Switserland as well. All of a sudden Swiss riders co-dominated: Rominger, Zulle, Dufaux, Jeker, Zberg, Richard. Gianetti, Puttini and Imboden came back from nowwhere.
 
BroDeal said:
By 1991 the flood gates began to open, and the Tour was never the same.
This right here is why I post about doping the way I do. You had to see it and live through it like we did to believe it. In 1991 things seemed amiss. But by 1992 things seemed reallly odd. And not just the way Lemond was done. That 1992 ITT in Luxembourg was a real eye-opener. Of course it wasn't until years later (about 1998) when the curtain was pulled back, but you still had to look.

sherer said:
I think maybe the time has come for the ASO and the UCI to issue an amnesty so all past dopers can come clean and then we can try and work out who was where.

Riis looses his yello jersey just for coming clean but Fignon has just done the same and allowed to keep his

Not likely to happen. Don't forget, Virenque was doped likely in all 7 of his KOM jerseys, and he not only gets to keep them all, he's on TV every year doing expert commentary on racing in France and welcomed with open arms still by the fans.

emilio said:
An interesting statement about Miguel Indurain was made. The writer of the book, Mart Smeets, told about one night in the TFD he saw Indurain walking outside. In the middle of the night. Later he found out, that appearently EPO-users were woken up a few times a night by their teams. It was supposed to be dangerous to fall a sleep to deep when on EPO.

Dehydration is the big concern there. If you're on EPO and your hct is 55 or so, if you go to sleep dehydrated, there's a small chance you won't wake up. So guys would drink a liter of water before going to bed, wake up in the middle of the night to pee, walk to move things around to get your metabolism going a little, and drink some more water before sleeping another few hours. There are stories of riders being completely jacked and getting up in the middle of the night to ride a few intervals on rollers or wind trainers. Crazy huh?
 
Apr 23, 2009
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If this has been mentioned previously, then I apologize......
Does anyone remember the 1990(i think) ABC/ESPN broadcast of the Tour with Sam Posey:)p ) ??

There was a brief special about a relatively unknown Dutch rider who died in his sleep. His wife was intervied and she mentioned possible EPO usage. In fact the whole point of this side-story special was about EPO useage in the peloton. So, if this was broadcasted in 1990 then my guess is that EPO was widely used in 1988, 1989
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Barry Muzzin said:
If this has been mentioned previously, then I apologize......
Does anyone remember the 1990(i think) ABC/ESPN broadcast of the Tour with Sam Posey:)p ) ??

There was a brief special about a relatively unknown Dutch rider who died in his sleep. His wife was intervied and she mentioned possible EPO usage. In fact the whole point of this side-story special was about EPO useage in the peloton. So, if this was broadcasted in 1990 then my guess is that EPO was widely used in 1988, 1989

This rider was Johannes Draaijer. He had an american wife indeed. He debuted at the 89 TdF and died in feb/march 1990 in his sleep. Didnt know his wife talked about EPO that time. Could be the evidence that it was already widespread experimenting in 1990. Could also explain why some countries were carefull at the beginning.
Draaijer had an unusually low heartrate in rest. Maybe that is why he couldnt take it safelly.
 
Holy crap, it's Barry Muzzin! :eek: Good to see you back, Barry. :cool:

Good post, Emelio. Said more than I could remember. Like I said in another post, XC skiers were probably experimenting with EPO in the late 1980's and likely the 1988 Olympics, but it wasn't widespread in that sport until about 1994.

Blood doping (packing) was around long before that. People bring up the 1984 Olympic team, but really the DDR was doing it going back to 1972. And it's well known that both the US and Soviets were using steroids and other drugs going back say before that. Point is, Draaijer could have died from blood doping.
 
While there was EPO use around '88 and '89, it looks like it was confined to Dutch riders for some reason. It also does not look like they really knew what they were doing, otherwise so many would not have turned up dead. Dr. Conconi and his crew appear to have been the ones who defined the regimen of EPO dosage, hematocrit monitoring, and blood thinners that allowed riders to safely take the drug.

I cannot think of any rider in a GT prior to Bugno in 1990's Giro that I could point to and say that I suspect him of getting an obvious bump in performance from EPO.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Some interesting information (in German) is available here and puts forward the idea that 'northern' cyclists were experimenting with EPO.

In 1989 starben die Radfahrer Gerd Oosterbosch (Belgien) und A. Brinkmann (Deutschland), 1990 Johannes Draaijer (Holland). Wenige Jahre später spricht man von bis zu 20 Radfahrern und 7 schwedischen Orientierungsläufern, die ihr Leben durch wahrscheinlich „unsachgemäße“ EPO-Verwendung und Dosierung lassen mussten.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Bert Oosterbosch was a dutchman who already quit cycling in 89. Though there was another dutch (female)cyclist, Connie Meijer, who passed away the same way. Possible the western europe contries backed out for a few years. After 1988 where the dutch were as dominant as the Italians in the early 90's
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Point is, Draaijer could have died from blood doping.
Draaijer died in Februar or March so I don't understan why he would have blood doped at that time? EPO for which race?
I doubt that riders were already doing the famous "hard work" with EPO or blood doping.
 
Yes, strange, who knows?

BroDeal said:
I cannot think of any rider in a GT prior to Bugno in 1990's Giro that I could point to and say that I suspect him of getting an obvious bump in performance from EPO.

He won that Giro from start to finish. Taking the Maglia Rosa in the prologue, and never relinquishing it.

As I said, watching what seemed to be a strong Greg falter in the 1991 Tour was puzzling, but that 1992 ITT seemed superhuman. No one I had ever seen could ITT like that and stay with the top climbers. Picture Cancellara thumping an ITT, and hanging with Contador, Sastre and Schleck on the climbs...
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Yes, strange, who knows?



He won that Giro from start to finish. Taking the Maglia Rosa in the prologue, and never relinquishing it.

As I said, watching what seemed to be a strong Greg falter in the 1991 Tour was puzzling, but that 1992 ITT seemed superhuman. No one I had ever seen could ITT like that and stay with the top climbers. Picture Cancellara thumping an ITT, and hanging with Contador, Sastre and Schleck on the climbs...

Yes but Indurain won a Pyrenean stage solo in the 89 tour and then road on Lemond's wheel to win at Luz Ardiden in the 90 edition. So he had climbing pedigree. It's just that the net increase in power between these editions and his subsequent tour wins was surely due to EPO.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I was always a fan of Big Mig so it's a shame if he was doping too. Wonder if we will ever be able to find out who was clean and who wasn't but it seems only the fans really care about that.

If Virenque was doping for each of his KOM jerseys weren't they after the Frstina affair so shows the testing still isn't up the scratch. I'm sure there are riders still on EPO \ CERA now who have been tested while on it and not caught.

The UCI have already said they have a list of 50 riders they will target so if any of these start the Tour we will end up with another scandal. If the UCI have a list of 50 why not get them all tested prior to the tour, why not test them daily then it shows the rider they are onto them and they will have no choice but to clean up.

Remember Moreau last year who pulled out for no reason ?
 
Sherer - Mig was a talented and strong rider, no doubt. And he used the same team tactics to perfection year after year. But he also rode in the worst of the EPO era and went from being a very good top rider, to undisputed #1 in the course of one year. Still, one would have to assume had everyone been clean he would have still won a great deal.

Virenque was doped probably his entire career. Certainly in everything up to 1998 according to Willy Voet. And was probably the most doped rider in cycling from about 1995-1998, until the roof fell in. Considering there was still a doping problem in cycling after that, he was likely doping then too until the end of his career, only less than before.

Good point on the "50". That almost is a recipe for scandal. But it all depends on how much the UCI wants to thump their chest.
 
pmcg76 said:
I would imagine about a quarter or less of the 91 Tour de France peloton were on EPO. The Italians, especially Ariostea who I believe were the first big users, 4 stages including TTT and two were by nobody riders.

Looking at the results from the 91 Tour, its hard to gauge, first three, maybe. Charly Mottet was 4th and even Willy Voet reckoned Mottet was one of the few clean riders. Luc Leblanc and Laurent Fignon were next and even though Fignon admitted to doping, I dont think he ever took EPO. Next was LeMond so I dont think everyone in front of him was on EPO. Apart from two bad days, LeMond had a good Tour, he lost very little time to Indurain in the TTs.

Next was Pedro Delgado. If Indurain was on the sauce, what was team-mate Delgado on because his performances were going backwards. Rooks was well down and actually finished behind well-known anti-doper Gilles Delion so if he was on EPO then, it didnt do much for him. Hard to analyse really but I agree 91 was the first Tour were EPO was a factor. Still not the reason LeMond didnt win though.
It didn't do much for Rooks, because his natural hematocrite level was already 48, and to stay below the 50, he couldn't take too much, he explained also in the interview. EPO was not on the list/not detectable until 97 so everyone who wished to stay in the top probably took it.
 
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In 1987, Indurain was placing top 5 in the timetrials, but failed in the mountains. In 1989, he won his first mountain stage, 1990 he rocked. They said he lost plenty of weight vs that of the former years. While there was talent and progressive improvement and awesome genetics, we know this wasn't the only help he had.

Greg Lemond said something on "The Competitors Radio show" http://www.competitorradio.com/ that the bigger your body was the better epo worked, as you had more blood volume. This is why after 1990, we started seeing huge, heavy riders climbing with the mountain goats. It was something like that.

Actually some of these radio shows are some of the most informative and interesting shows on doping I've listened to.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Like Lemond and Fignon in 1991, the Norwegians missed the boat then and their "Dream Team" got beat on their home turf by skiers they normally crushed. Though by most accounts, they wised up after that, if you know what I mean.

They didn't. In 1999 for example they got beaten by the Austrian Team in the World Championship in Ramsau. No evidence of doping by Norwegian XC skiiers, because it never happened.