Rotor Hydraulic Groupset - where is FSA??

[wendybnt]

You said Campagnolo aren't into OEM. Campagnolo say they are. You said Campagnolo are "local (manufacturing)", Campagnolo say they are starting to move production out of Italy, with the effect of 20% job losses in Italy.

Not my words, they are Campagnolo's words. Take it up with them if you think they are wrong about themselves

x

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

You said Campagnolo aren't into OEM. Campagnolo say they are. You said Campagnolo are "local (manufacturing)", Campagnolo say they are starting to move production out of Italy, with the effect of 20% job losses in Italy.

Not my words, they are Campagnolo's words. Take it up with them if you think they are wrong about themselves

x

Campagnolo have always done OEM, just on a very limited scale compared to the other two manufacturers. Colnago, Pinarello, Wilier, Viner, Basso, De Rosa , Cinelli and even Cannondale (on and off) are just a few companies that spec models with Campagnolo straight from the factory.

 

[wendybnt]

It's quite interesting if you consider the way those brands you mention have changed with the market (Inc. Bianchi). Every one of them has outsourced production to the far East. Outsourced rather than setting up their own factories. Once classy brands like Gios, Guercotti and Ciocc are now just names, and even the 3 most prestigious Italian companies, Colnago, Pinarello and De Rosa are almost virtual companies, or brands, not manufacturing or even assembling very much at all except maybe the very top model. 'Made in Italy' doesn't mean made in Italy.

Campagnolo is following, albeit gradually, and in much the same way that Pinarello has totally cashed in its heritage and gone for the big bucks, I think Campagnolo are trying to position themselves for a slice of the pie. The redundancies are a symptom of the restructure.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

You said Campagnolo aren't into OEM. Campagnolo say they are. You said Campagnolo are "local (manufacturing)", Campagnolo say they are starting to move production out of Italy, with the effect of 20% job losses in Italy.

Not my words, they are Campagnolo's words. Take it up with them if you think they are wrong about themselves

x

You aren't listening wendy. Campagnolo has done very limited OE for a long time but their forte is after market sales. Campagnolo has had manufacturing in Poland and Italy for a long time. A lot of 'Fulcrum' is made in Asia, a lot of Campagnolo brakes are made by TRP.

If you don't like Campagnolo, fine, I don't care, I don't have to use the other junque, I guess you do. If you are thrilled with the 'gorilla'(shimano) or 'let's use the consumer as our testers'(spam), go ahead.

Even in the 'dark days' of 2007/8, when world wide financial markets were crumbling, Campagnolo had 20%+ increases in sales but use whatever you wish...

this is mine, BTW

 

[wendybnt]

Campagnolo are saying that they have been trying to get into getting their groupsets fitted to branded bikes in the factory (call that OEM if you want). After-market sales were their forte, they are trying to change from that.

I agree, use what you like. But that isn't what I'm talking about. I guess if you've inked yourself with somebody's corporate logo you probably would feel that you need to defend them....even when they aren't actually under attack.

I think we've probably worn this theme out now. Let's get back to slanging FSA and Sram

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

Campagnolo are saying that they have been trying to get into getting their groupsets fitted to branded bikes in the factory (call that OEM if you want). After-market sales were their forte, they are trying to change from that.

I agree, use what you like. But that isn't what I'm talking about. I guess if you've inked yourself with somebody's corporate logo you probably would feel that you need to defend them....even when they aren't actually under attack.

I think we've probably worn this theme out now. Let's get back to slanging FSA and Sram

I don't defend Campagnolo, I prefer Campagnolo.

I would rather walk than use either of the 'S' groups.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Re:

...this is mine, BTW

No, no, no, ...you don't get off that easy. Now you have to tell us what body part that's on.

 

[wendybnt]

I think it's his thigh

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

if you hadn't already noticed

in another section of the forum i have mooted the idea of setting up a workshop & maintenance sub-section in the forum

the right place yet to be decided or even ok'd for that matter

however

i fear that after reading through these last few posts it will turn into a vehicle to demonstrate extreme fanboy or girl ism

as has been previously noted
there are some members with a wealth of extremely helpful knowledge to offer
mr knuckle being one of them

however
if a member asks some genuine questions regarding either sram shimano or god forbid fsa & rotor with regards to workshop or maintenance

are the only replies going to be
its crap
chuck it in the bin
and buy (insert your fav brand of choice here)

we all have our likes and preferences for different reasons
nothing wrong with a good healthy debate and offering up our thoughts and opinions

if you agree with me on the want / need for this forum subsection
please visit the
about the forum section and add some positive comments to get it cranking

 

[wendybnt]

Ooops! Sorry

I can't say that I'd make particular use of a workshop board, but I'm sure it would be useful to many and you are right to flag up the potential for gruppo wars.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

...this is mine, BTW

No, no, no, ...you don't get off that easy. Now you have to tell us what body part that's on.

Inside left arm.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

if you hadn't already noticed

in another section of the forum i have mooted the idea of setting up a workshop & maintenance sub-section in the forum

the right place yet to be decided or even ok'd for that matter

however

i fear that after reading through these last few posts it will turn into a vehicle to demonstrate extreme fanboy or girl ism

as has been previously noted
there are some members with a wealth of extremely helpful knowledge to offer
mr knuckle being one of them

however
if a member asks some genuine questions regarding either sram shimano or god forbid fsa & rotor with regards to workshop or maintenance

are the only replies going to be
its crap
chuck it in the bin
and buy (insert your fav brand of choice here)

we all have our likes and preferences for different reasons
nothing wrong with a good healthy debate and offering up our thoughts and opinions

if you agree with me on the want / need for this forum subsection
please visit the
about the forum section and add some positive comments to get it cranking

I think if you do open a service shop, yes, you are going to see all and everything BUT keep your preferences in the open. Not saying to slam a person's bike or group, but since you are 'in the trenches', you get to see ALL the goods and others of everything. From complete bikes to wheel 'systems' to electronic, etc. Be honest and tactful(ya gotta be in a service oriented shop) but be honest, if there are upgrades and improvements to be had, from you experience, say so.

I'm a civilian now, don't own the shop, just build wheels 'on the side'..so I can say anything I want. For spam, disc brakes, etc..I'm just glad I don't have to
-sell it
-work on it
-use it

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

They've reclaimed a few teams the last few years to be fair. Sure they lost AG2R but they still have:

Lotto Soudal
Movistar
Astana
Europcar
Rusvelo
Fantini
Southeast
Budget

Amongst others.

Better than SRAM's grand total of one WT team...

Think back to 2011. Sram had 8 WT teams (thus the largest supplier). Now they have only one, but it is almost certainly down to the lack of a Sram electronic groupset rather than an unwillingness to sponsor WT teams, or an unwillingness by WT teams to use Sram's stuff.

Electronic shifting has made the argument about campy vs shimano shifters a bit redundant. Prior to electronics I would have been in the Campy camp, as they were cheaper and easily fixable. My partner used to get asked to do a fair few shimergo setups for people as they wanted the cheaper and fixable shifters but also wanted the cheaper Shimano rear derailleurs and compatible wheels.

Haven't any experience with campy electronic, and almost none with di2 either.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

They've reclaimed a few teams the last few years to be fair. Sure they lost AG2R but they still have:

Lotto Soudal
Movistar
Astana
Europcar
Rusvelo
Fantini
Southeast
Budget

Amongst others.

Better than SRAM's grand total of one WT team...

Think back to 2011. Sram had 8 WT teams (thus the largest supplier). Now they have only one, but it is almost certainly down to the lack of a Sram electronic groupset rather than an unwillingness to sponsor WT teams, or an unwillingness by WT teams to use Sram's stuff.

Extremely faulty logic there. Teams were buying other groupsets rather than use Sram, several people came out and openly criticised them. People who were sponsored by them.

 

[wendybnt]

Really? I've not heard about that, but then that isn't saying much! My partner is much more in touch with things and still has one or two mates at the sharp end here and there. As I said, he left the wrenching business before electronic, but I do know that one of the reasons his mates like it is because it overcomes the issues with internal cabling with mechanical set-ups, especially if ridden in bad weather.

I'd be interested to know what you've heard about teams ditching Sram for non-financial reasons. My estimation would be that sram aren't offering the sponsorships because of financial reasons. Until they get electronic going they've got nothing to punt. Plus they will have spent a lot of cash on the hydro ***-up, and developing their wireless system.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Re:

No, no, no, ...you don't get off that easy. Now you have to tell us what body part that's on.

Inside left arm.

Thank you. Being as the limb in question is unshaved, I suspected as much.

Once while spectating the final stage of the TdF from Place de la Concorde, I chanced across an Englishman with near abouts its twin on his inside right (shaved) calf (except his read "Brev Campagnolo)", in the customary location of the notorious chain ring tattoo.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

No, no, no, ...you don't get off that easy. Now you have to tell us what body part that's on.

Inside left arm.

Thank you. Being as the limb in question is unshaved, I suspected as much.

Once while spectating the final stage of the TdF from Place de la Concorde, I chanced across an Englishman with near abouts its twin on his inside right (shaved) calf (except his read "Brev Campagnolo)", in the customary location of the notorious chain ring tattoo.

Molte bene

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Really? I've not heard about that, but then that isn't saying much! My partner is much more in touch with things and still has one or two mates at the sharp end here and there. As I said, he left the wrenching business before electronic, but I do know that one of the reasons his mates like it is because it overcomes the issues with internal cabling with mechanical set-ups, especially if ridden in bad weather.

I'd be interested to know what you've heard about teams ditching Sram for non-financial reasons. My estimation would be that sram aren't offering the sponsorships because of financial reasons. Until they get electronic going they've got nothing to punt. Plus they will have spent a lot of cash on the hydro ***-up, and developing their wireless system.

I can dig out the links but off the top of my head Vaughters dumped Sram went out and bought groupsets, Cavendish has moaned in public, Tinkov criticised them and the secret pro has alluded to the fact that they are a running joke in the peloton.

I'm sure no electronic groupset had something to do with it, but I think the bigger issue is the overall quality of their road gear.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

What about the Porsche Boxster?

Seriously though, I don't have your confidence in Campagnolo's survival in today's market. They weren't 'small and iconic', they were the market leaders and they have been shrinking since the 70s in the face of Shimano, and now Shimano and Sram. They've virtually disappeared from pro tour sponsorship too. Middle-aged fans and a cult following are all very well, but that won't keep them afloat. From what I've heard, they sacked a load of people recently.

They've reclaimed a few teams the last few years to be fair. Sure they lost AG2R but they still have:

Lotto Soudal
Movistar
Astana
Europcar
Rusvelo
Fantini
Southeast
Budget

Amongst others.

Better than SRAM's grand total of one WT team...

Think back to 2011. Sram had 8 WT teams (thus the largest supplier). Now they have only one, but it is almost certainly down to the lack of a Sram electronic groupset rather than an unwillingness to sponsor WT teams, or an unwillingness by WT teams to use Sram's stuff.

Extremely faulty logic there. Teams were buying other groupsets rather than use Sram, several people came out and openly criticised them. People who were sponsored by them.

BMC, Garmin, Tinkoff and Quickstep were all offered sram sponsorships, all turned them down. BMC and Garmin actually purchased shimano groupsets rather than have spam. It wasn't a case of electronic vs mechanical(Astana is all mechanical Campagnolo), it's about poor reliability, the idea that a stage might be lost because some of this slam crap failed.

Financially sram is on the ropes. 3 BIG Recalls plus the BIG competitor for sram, shimano, is putting the hurts on them.
sram focuses on wee markets with odd components(road hydraulic calipers-huh?) and 1 by. Cross is where spam focuses but where is that electronic/hydro disc group? Another fail.

 

[King Boonen]

The price of their top end MTB groups, along with that stupid XD hub is also putting a lot of people off...