Ruta del Sol 2017

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Pinot grinding the entire climb vs contador huge attack is the difference. Attacking is not the best option these days, Contador needs to learn to channel basso

Rubbish, the final flat km cost Berto as he does not have the same raw power as slightly larger riders like Tibs.

This is true, he had no chance in the sprint, but don't you think Contador could have paced himself a bit better before the flatter finish? Once Valverde cracked and Contador opened up the small gap he seemed to carry on with a very hard effort when it wasn't really necessary. He'd already got the gap and just needed to consolidate and pace himself to the finish, there was no need to dig so deep with 7 or 8 minutes riding still to go. He's the best climber in the race; if he paces himself properly he shouldn't be getting caught.

No the way I see it he needed to dig that deep to establish and maintain the gap.

I guess it's possible Landa could have held on without that extra dig. But I still think it would have been better to consolidate a bit and then attack again further towards the top if necessary. He left himself with no other kick in the tank and was a sitting duck for Pinot when he faded in the last km.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Ion the favorite for overall followed by Pinot.

If all in top form, I would choose Ion too. But it's a big question tomorrow, wouldn't surprise me even if Bala wins, he had a great training ride last saturday.. :razz:

 

[DFA123]

Re:

So, who is gonna win the TT tomorrow ?

Kiryienka was looking pretty strong at the front today; perhaps a bit short for him, but he must be one of the favourites.

Of the GC contenders, the distance and the handful of technical corners, suggests Izagirre more than Pinot I think.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I guess it's possible Landa could have held on without that extra dig. But I still think it would have been better to consolidate a bit and then attack again further towards the top if necessary. He left himself with no other kick in the tank and was a sitting duck for Pinot when he faded in the last km.

We have a saying in Dutch, "the best helmsmen stand on the shore" --> It's easy to criticize other people's work when you're not the one doing it.

 

[rhubroma]

Contador had to go when he did, though he was already at a very hard effort when he went. There wasn't consequnetly much of a margin to increase power and speed and, while he droped the rest, was already too deep to fend of a recuperating Pinot in the end. Don't think the finish had anything to do with it, other that it was 300 meters too far away.

Though this is only the beginning of the season, if we look at the big picture it seems that Porte and Quintana (can't say Froome, due to lack of evidence) in similar circumstances, would not have been caught by Pinot. What this means for the future is anyone's guess, but it is never pleasant to see a rider of AC's caliber, get nipped in the end after a worhty effort like he did and by Pinot, not Froome.

 

[DBotero]

Re: Re:

Glad to see Landa on a good level, maybe he could reach 2015 shape

I think the biggest obstacle for him will be tactics. He could possibly have won the stage today if he wasn't told attack from so far out. And working for Poels as well, Froome you could understand... but Poels

Landa is going to Giro as leader while Poels is getting to work for Froome in TDF.They need to give him something in exchange.Anyway i think Rosa was more impressive than Landa in this race.

Why? If Landa will be leader at the Giro then all the more reason to give him experience as a leader in these kind of races. He needs all the leadership experience he can get. Poels can be leader with Kwiatkowksi in the classics - that's more his strength than stage racing anyway; he's not consistent enough over a week long race.

Agree that Rosa's form has been impressive, but, again he's not going to be leading at a GT, so why not let Landa get more experience in that respect here.

The problem is that Poels was expecting to lead a GT this year so Sky needs to keep him motivated.That consistency thing won't stop his claims until he get his chance.Landa should be happy with what he gets considering they pay him a lot and last year he didn't show enough.Hopefully with a good Giro he'll bounce back.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I guess it's possible Landa could have held on without that extra dig. But I still think it would have been better to consolidate a bit and then attack again further towards the top if necessary. He left himself with no other kick in the tank and was a sitting duck for Pinot when he faded in the last km.

We have a saying in Dutch, "the best helmsmen stand on the shore" --> It's easy to criticize other people's work when you're not the one doing it.

Of course that's correct, but isn't that what all fans do? And Contador's record and quality means that he should be judged and scrutinized to a very high standard. I think he could have won the stage today with slightly better pacing, but obviously we'll never know for sure. He doesn't win many stages nowdays either, so I'm sure it would have meant something to him.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I guess it's possible Landa could have held on without that extra dig. But I still think it would have been better to consolidate a bit and then attack again further towards the top if necessary. He left himself with no other kick in the tank and was a sitting duck for Pinot when he faded in the last km.

We have a saying in Dutch, "the best helmsmen stand on the shore" --> It's easy to criticize other people's work when you're not the one doing it.

Of course that's correct, but isn't that what all fans do? And Contador's record and quality means that he should be judged and scrutinized to a very high standard. I think he could have won the stage today with slightly better pacing, but obviously we'll never know for sure. He doesn't win many stages nowdays either, so I'm sure it would have meant something to him.

I don't think he cares about a stage in a relatively small race like Ruta del Sol as long as he wins the overall, similar to Burgos last year I think. He has loads of stage wins, a stage in a minor race won't add anything to his palmares. Of course it would show he is on the right track but that is a different story.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Winning a stage early on in a small, even "meaningless" race for guys like Valverde and Contador shouldn't be underrated. I think they care a lot, just look at Valverde's celebration yesterday. I think Contador is the same type of character, extremely focused and motivated, wanting to prove doubters wrong etc. When looking at one particular season, everyone would render a mere stage in Andalucía meaningless for Contador, but I think the momentum and confidence goes a long way. Especially after a less than stellar Vuelta last year.

Obviously, if he wins the GC, it would mean next to nothing anyways.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Winning a stage early on in a small, even "meaningless" race for guys like Valverde and Contador shouldn't be underrated. I think they care a lot, just look at Valverde's celebration yesterday. I think Contador is the same type of character, extremely focused and motivated, wanting to prove doubters wrong etc. When looking at one particular season, everyone would render a mere stage in Andalucía meaningless for Contador, but I think the momentum and confidence goes a long way. Especially after a less than stellar Vuelta last year.

Obviously, if he wins the GC, it would mean next to nothing anyways.

They matter in the moment. They matter for the confidence.

Great win for Pinot. Best field he's won a mountain stage in head on. Tonton rejoices.

 

[manolo57]

Re: Re:

Great win for Pinot. Best field he's won a mountain stage in head on. Tonton rejoices.

With Romandie 2015.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Great win for Pinot. Best field he's won a mountain stage in head on. Tonton rejoices.

With Romandie 2015.

Forgot that one. That was definitely better


Anyway, footage for the last 5km?

 

[Gigs_98]

Good stage for Contador but still a bit frustrating that he didn't win the stage. This could have been his first non ITT stage win for one year

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Though this is only the beginning of the season, if we look at the big picture it seems that Porte and Quintana (can't say Froome, due to lack of evidence) in similar circumstances, would not have been caught by Pinot.

We absolutely cannot say that. Contador is racing Pinot, Valverde, Landa not Jay McCarthy and Ben Hermans. We can say that Porte and even more so Quintana looked great, but that's not quite the same thing.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Though this is only the beginning of the season, if we look at the big picture it seems that Porte and Quintana (can't say Froome, due to lack of evidence) in similar circumstances, would not have been caught by Pinot.

We absolutely cannot say that. Contador is racing Pinot, Valverde, Landa not Jay McCarthy and Ben Hermans. We can say that Porte and even more so Quintana looked great, but that's not quite the same thing.

Welltaken, in fact mine was only an opinion and I'm aware that the competition is different. Paris Nice will though provide some real insight, where Porte, bar illness or injury, should be the ideal measuring stick. At any rate, I have to say Pinot surprised. I know he's good, but the level of resistance and panache he demonstrated today went beyond expectations.

 

[manolo57]

Re: Re:

Great win for Pinot. Best field he's won a mountain stage in head on. Tonton rejoices.

With Romandie 2015.

Forgot that one. That was definitely better


Anyway, footage for the last 5km?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMGgsP2kdhs

 

[yaco]

Pinot the diesel climber times his move to perfection - Climbs at the Giro will suit his characteristics - Its a matter of whether he can hold his form for 3 weeks.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Great win for Pinot. Best field he's won a mountain stage in head on. Tonton rejoices.

With Romandie 2015.

Forgot that one. That was definitely better


Anyway, footage for the last 5km?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMGgsP2kdhs

Thanks

 

[del1962]

Re:

Pinot the diesel climber times his move to perfection - Climbs at the Giro will suit his characteristics - Its a matter of whether he can hold his form for 3 weeks.

And there is also the descents

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Contador had to go when he did, though he was already at a very hard effort when he went. There wasn't consequnetly much of a margin to increase power and speed and, while he droped the rest, was already too deep to fend of a recuperating Pinot in the end. Don't think the finish had anything to do with it, other that it was 300 meters too far away.

Though this is only the beginning of the season, if we look at the big picture it seems that Porte and Quintana (can't say Froome, due to lack of evidence) in similar circumstances, would not have been caught by Pinot. What this means for the future is anyone's guess, but it is never pleasant to see a rider of AC's caliber, get nipped in the end after a worhty effort like he did and by Pinot, not Froome.

I agree on every word you wrote. I was going to post something similar, but you put it to words a lot better than I would.
Contador has a hard time sustaining his attacks. I just hope the level AC was facing here was at a higher level than Quintana and Porte had to face so far, or that AC still has a big margin to improve compared to his competition today.
I'm afraid not though.

Ok TDU competition and climbs were a level below today, Porte really did rip it apart there though.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ammattipyoraily
Quintana (#VCV2017) and Contador (#63RdS) are approx. at the same level in February. Little bit more than 15 minutes and both at ~6.4 W/kg.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Contador had to go when he did, though he was already at a very hard effort when he went. There wasn't consequnetly much of a margin to increase power and speed and, while he droped the rest, was already too deep to fend of a recuperating Pinot in the end. Don't think the finish had anything to do with it, other that it was 300 meters too far away.

Though this is only the beginning of the season, if we look at the big picture it seems that Porte and Quintana (can't say Froome, due to lack of evidence) in similar circumstances, would not have been caught by Pinot. What this means for the future is anyone's guess, but it is never pleasant to see a rider of AC's caliber, get nipped in the end after a worhty effort like he did and by Pinot, not Froome.

I agree on every word you wrote. I was going to post something similar, but you put it to words a lot better than I would.
Contador has a hard time sustaining his attacks. I just hope the level AC was facing here was at a higher level than Quintana and Porte had to face so far, or that AC still has a big margin to improve compared to his competition today.
I'm afraid not though.

Ok TDU competition and climbs were a level below today, Porte really did rip it apart there though.

Indeed and the only thing that can be said with certainty is that it is very early. Still, frankly, Contador will need to have a considerable margin of improvement to work with to win the Tour. And I'm not bagging him, far from it, but after all he was not able to significantly gain time on Froome's domestiques (let's bear that in mind),while, anyway you put it, Quintana and Porte were flying. Yes against a lesser field, but still their rides were very impressive.

On the other hand Contador is undoubtedly starting well, though I'm curious to see how he will go in PN against Porte. Because, apart from his misfortunes, Porte has really upped his game in my book. Don't know what to make of Quintana, other than he's a beast. I guess it will depend on how he goes in the Giro (which I'm very much looking forward to) and how that will condition his Tour. He's taking a risk that might not allow him to be at his best in the Tour. Nairo on paper should be much stronger in the mountains than Valverde, but the later only lost a few seconds to Contador today.

Of course then there's Catalunya...

 

[Red Rick]

I find it hard to gauge Contador when he again mistimes his effort completely and ends up cracking himself.

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

Ammattipyoraily
Quintana (#VCV2017) and Contador (#63RdS) are approx. at the same level in February. Little bit more than 15 minutes and both at ~6.4 W/kg.

Weight should too factor in performances, though, should it not?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Ammattipyoraily
Quintana (#VCV2017) and Contador (#63RdS) are approx. at the same level in February. Little bit more than 15 minutes and both at ~6.4 W/kg.

Weight should too factor in performances, though, should it not?

Isn't it factored in. At the same W/kg the heavier rider usually wins afaik.