Ruta del Sol - Vuelta ciclista a Andalucia 2014 2.1 (19th - 23rd Feb)

[MatParker117]

Stage 1:

All aboard the Movistar Choo-Choo.

2 for 2 for the Green Bullet?

Sky train will be rolling as well this gonna be good.

 

[jens_attacks]

The course was quite technical right? My commentators said that there were about 14 curves on the route, that means one curve for every 500 metres. So maybe it was more about getting the right trajectory through the curves and accelerating several than just putting out the most watts.

the curves were taken at very high speed. i wouldn't call this technical itt at all.

except the last 100 meters

i think bala did something like 52-53 kmph which is insanely fast

 

[JRanton]

Sky train will be rolling as well this gonna be good.

The train is the last thing that's needed. Send men on the attack at every opportunity and make Movistar defend.

 

[del1962]

The train is the last thing that's needed. Send men on the attack at every opportunity and make Movistar defend.

Totally agree, but they won't do it

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Would be nice if you could help me find one prologue where he puts 2 seconds / km over the 2nd and 4th place in WC ITT from the previous year.

Prologue riding ≠ 45km TT riding.

 

[arvc40]

Valverde destroyed Sky today !. Good on him

 

[EnacheV]

Prologue riding ≠ 45km TT riding.

Seems you didn't properly understand the request, nowhere in it TT was mentioned.

Would be nice if you could help me find one prologue where he puts 2 seconds / km over the 2nd and 4th place in WC ITT from the previous year.

It's pretty simple. A prologue where Valverde put's 2 seconds/km in both 2nd place and 4th place in WC ITT of the previous year. Thanks.

edit: if it's not that uncommon than would be very easy to spot a previous occurrence of Valverde beating the crap out of some podium WC ITT'ers.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Seems you didn't properly understand the request, nowhere in it TT was mentioned.



It's pretty simple. A prologue where Valverde put's 2 seconds/km in both 2nd place and 4th place in WC ITT of the previous year. Thanks.

edit: if it's not that uncommon than would be very easy to spot a previous occurrence of Valverde beating the crap out of some podium WC ITT'ers.

Alejandro Valverde vs. WC podium TTer Vasil Kiryienka: 14-4 in favour of Valverde in ITTs (5-1 in prologues).

Alejandro Valverde vs. WC podium TTer Bradley Wiggins: 8-4 in favour of Wiggins in ITTs (4-3 in prologues).

So while Wiggins beats Valverde more often than not in ITTs, over the short distances it's quite even; Valverde more often than not beats Kiryienka in ITTs, especially prologues (although in many of these Kiri won't have been giving 100% as he was a domestique - however it's not like he's top of the food chain in this Sky team either).

Alejandro Valverde vs. Richie Porte: 7-5 in favour of Porte in ITTs (3-1 in prologues).

Alejandro Valverde vs. Geraint Thomas: 7-2 in favour of Valverde in ITTs (2-1 in prologues).

So Porte is the most surprising one to be being beaten by Valverde based on past performances, as he has traditionally been closer matched to Valverde over longer distances. Thomas losing out to Valverde in an ITT is seemingly par for the course, with him only winning 22% of his head to heads against El Imbatido. A lot of different riders can be competitive over a short distance than can become podium World Championship ITT riders.

Froome's short ITT results in 2012-13: 20th, 27th, 50th, 11th, 6th, 4th, 1st.
Froome's long ITT results in 2012-13: 39th, 6th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 17th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 1st.

It's quite clear that there is a difference in his ability in long TTs (of which the Worlds is one) and short TTs (of which today's TT was one). Being good at the former does not make it inherently ludicrous for somebody who is pretty good at short TTs and is on home soil to be better than you at the latter.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Valverde to do the LBL, AGR, FW treble this year

 

[burning]

Valverde to do the LBL, AGR, FW treble this year

Yeah, he will finish 2nd in all of those races.

 

[Kwibus]

I'm a bit surprised about Sir Wiggo and GT getting beaten by Vasil here. Perhaps they were weaker than expected.

Vasil is known to make top performances every now and then. Besides that it's still February.

 

[EnacheV]

Libertine Seguros it seems you still don't understand the problem at hand, last try.

I'm not interested in a head to head over 10 years between Valverde and some other riders that 4 years ago didn't existed (figurative ofc) anyway. It's meaningless.

I'm interested when Valverde put 2sec / km in the currently no2 and no4 WC ITT guys. How hard can it be? Can you help with this curiosity of mine? I don't need explanations for Valverde's performance from today, i know the causes.

 

[Cyivel]

Good stuff from Valverde.

 

[Netserk]

Libertine Seguros it seems you still don't understand the problem at hand, last try.

I'm not interested in a head to head over 10 years between Valverde and some other riders that 4 years ago didn't existed (figurative ofc) anyway. It's meaningless.

I'm interested when Valverde put 2sec / km in the currently no2 and no4 WC ITT guys. How hard can it be? Can you help with this curiosity of mine? I don't need explanations for Valverde's performance from today, i know the causes.

Sure, when was the last time he raced against those in a prologue in Spain?

 

[Afrank]

Libertine Seguros it seems you still don't understand the problem at hand, last try.

I'm not interested in a head to head over 10 years between Valverde and some other riders that 4 years ago didn't existed (figurative ofc) anyway. It's meaningless.

I'm interested when Valverde put 2sec / km in the currently no2 and no4 WC ITT guys. How hard can it be? Can you help with this curiosity of mine? I don't need explanations for Valverde's performance from today, i know the causes.

You looking for a specific answer EnacheV, to support your thought process that this is a unusual performance by Valverde . That answer your looking for being, no this has never happened before. But the more accurate answer (which you have been given multiple times), is that this performance is perfectly in line with how Valverde usually performs. Especially in these types of races at this time of the year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

EnacheV is blind for good arguments it seems. Why bother with it. It's like ryo hazuki but from another country

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Libertine Seguros it seems you still don't understand the problem at hand, last try.

I'm not interested in a head to head over 10 years between Valverde and some other riders that 4 years ago didn't existed (figurative ofc) anyway. It's meaningless.

I'm interested when Valverde put 2sec / km in the currently no2 and no4 WC ITT guys. How hard can it be? Can you help with this curiosity of mine? I don't need explanations for Valverde's performance from today, i know the causes.

So what you're trying to do is restrict the data set of past performances we can use for comparative purposes so tightly that you are guaranteed to get the answer you want.

Can you find me a result where Chris Froome podiumed a long TT putting 28" into the reigning no1 WC ITT guy BEFORE the 2011 Vuelta? No? Well clearly he was a terrible TTer then.

Can you find me a result where Bradley Wiggins won a mountain TT ahead of a podium-bound neo-pro, a future World Champion and a triple ITT World Champion BEFORE Romandie 2012? No? In that case he obviously performed way above his level in that TT. Burn the witch!

You have wilfully restricted the dataset in order to support your conclusion, and in order to prevent lots of valuable information (like Valverde's prior prologue performances, head to heads against the people he's beaten today) from being considered in the development of that conclusion. That's intellectually dishonest, and you know it is. You're resentful of the treatment Team Sky get and are laying the vitriol on a convenient boogeyman.

And what exactly is your conclusion? It's no different to CycleChic's ridiculous Pozzovivo thread in the clinic. If your conclusion is "Valverde is doping", the most likely response you're going to get is "you only just noticed?!". If your conclusion is "Valverde's performance is ridiculously above his normal performance level and far more surprising than anything Sky have done in the last two years", it's no wonder you get responses that say "no it isn't." Just as CycleChic argued that Pozzovivo was shady because he came out of nowhere, the point that caused her argument to be shattered to pieces was not the first part (few would be surprised to learn that somebody who rode for CSF-Navigare in 2008 had skeletons in their closet) but the second, because insinuating Pozzovivo came from nowhere in the 2012 Giro was grossly insulting to his palmarès.

 

[EnacheV]

Ok my bad, i understand now that Valverde beating Wiggins, Porte and Kiryenka by 2 seconds / km on a flat TT is perfectly normal. It must be so if many people repeat it. Not a big surprise at all.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Ok my bad, i understand now that Valverde beating Wiggins, Porte and Kiryenka by 2 seconds / km on a flat TT is perfectly normal. It must be so if many people repeat it. Not a big surprise at all.

Hah, what weakness, show no counter arguments but just react as a frustrated little kid. Get out then...

 

[Marco Pantani]

Good to see Valverde flying again. Gives me hope for July.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ok my bad, i understand now that Valverde beating Wiggins, Porte and Kiryenka by 2 seconds / km on a flat TT is perfectly normal. It must be so if many people repeat it.

Kiryienka has 3 top 10s in Prologues in his career, and none in the last 5 years until today.

Valverde has 13.

 

[manafana]

Valverde was even disturbed a bit by a motorcycle in a roundabout, probably lost about 3-5s.

he was happy to get a pull of it till it got a bit in his way

 

[roundabout]

wait, so which is more likely - that valverde and kiriyienka did a prologue to their general level and the rest underperformed (since Kiriyienka got a rare top 10), or kiriyienka did a good prologue by his standards and still was far behind valverde?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

he was happy to get a pull of it till it got a bit in his way

Very possible. Didn't get full pictures from his ride.

 

[manafana]

Very possible. Didn't get full pictures from his ride.

yeah they cut to it just before got in his way i assume he caught it was in its slip and then it slowed and got in his way no way it hurt his time anyway.

So who do people think for the stage, valverde favourite but San Luis star, arredondo being talked up for this.