Ruta del Sol - Vuelta ciclista a Andalucia 2014 2.1 (19th - 23rd Feb)

[manafana]

I think you guys need to accept that post epo and stuff climbing is very different. There's so little between the top riders that realistically there's nothing you can do tactically to get an advantage on a climb. Even if its 8 strong teammates against 1 rival, if the rival is as strong as yr strongest climber then you cant do much. I guess on the big climbs u just have to hope that he bonks or has a mech and has no teammates to help him out

Maybe they should have a rule that yr only allowed to draft on a climb from a teammate!

agree, cleaner cycling is going be less of a spectuale, you just can't launch long solo's staying hidden long as possible and being smooth with your power for most of the climb is key.

 

[JRanton]

degand has been climbing and riding tremendously for some time. that's not surprising.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, Ryo. He's had a nice little run at the start of the season but the fact he was there, along with a couple of other hardly illustrious names, suggests to me the climb wasn't very hard. It's not like Sky weren't setting a good pace or else others in the group would have attacked, wouldn't they? Unless the argument is that those other riders are also tactically incompetent...

 

[JRanton]

That pace would be way too slow for Nairo.

On that climb Nairo wouldn't have got anywhere against the Sky train (well apart from jumping Porte in the last 200m like Valverde did).

 

[JRanton]

agree, cleaner cycling is going be less of a spectuale, you just can't launch long solo's staying hidden long as possible and being smooth with your power for most of the climb is key.

Even in the EPO days it was incredibly difficult to launch a long solo attack on a climb like that (after all the guys chasing were also on EPO!).

 

[Jelantik]

it has nothing to do with that. movistar simply have better riders/climbers

I guess my point is that... sky has been implementing "riding to the max" with their train method. No one can attack with this sustain high rhythm. You can see how sky can turn regular name into some superhuman domestique, who can push higher watts on steep gradient with the same metronome like high tempo. Moviestar might have better climber but if they don't train their rider to ride that kind of tempo and sustain it for a very long, their climber will just fall of the waist side. Having a talent is great. But their training helps further their talent.

Whether we like it or not, sky has implemented the new era of cycling. Now, It is about the battle of fitness and strength (without outside help). And no, I'm not saying that strategy doesn't matter. Facts is sky has won convincingly back to back TDF. (yes wiggins got help with the route, but that's besides the point). What I'm saying is 'the manner how they won it". Riding tempo close to everyone's limit. Until everyone will be able to ride like Quintana at TDF, it means everyone better learn to ride close to their limits and still have some reserve to sprint at the end. And with the look of it, to me, moviestar seems to finally catch up with sky. So it'll be interesting to see how those two teams in Giro and TDF.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

i dont know how you can say that for sure. it may be the case but you cant take the result of one race (in spain) to conclude that, say, valverde is a better climber than Porte. Im sure this race was a big goal for valverde to win but probably less so for porte so maybe isnt at peak strength. I dont know for certain but its very possible.

you make a lot of very definite statements. the real world is not so simple

why the hell do you think I conclude after this race? I know these riders for many eyars and they just are better riders/climbers than sky have. especially in quantity.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

That's a bit of an exaggeration, Ryo. He's had a nice little run at the start of the season but the fact he was there, along with a couple of other hardly illustrious names, suggests to me the climb wasn't very hard. It's not like Sky weren't setting a good pace or else others in the group would have attacked, wouldn't they? Unless the argument is that those other riders are also tactically incompetent...

degand did what? top 5 or so in mediteraneo? that race is harder than this. the climb wans't hard yesterday but that doesn't change the ridiculous tactical errors sky made

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I guess my point is that... sky has been implementing "riding to the max" with their train method. No one can attack with this sustain high rhythm. You can see how sky can turn regular name into some superhuman domestique, who can push higher watts on steep gradient with the same metronome like high tempo. Moviestar might have better climber but if they don't train their rider to ride that kind of tempo and sustain it for a very long, their climber will just fall of the waist side. Having a talent is great. But their training helps further their talent.

Whether we like it or not, sky has implemented the new era of cycling. Now, It is about the battle of fitness and strength (without outside help). And no, I'm not saying that strategy doesn't matter. Facts is sky has won convincingly back to back TDF. (yes wiggins got help with the route, but that's besides the point). What I'm saying is 'the manner how they won it". Riding tempo close to everyone's limit. Until everyone will be able to ride like Quintana at TDF, it means everyone better learn to ride close to their limits and still have some reserve to sprint at the end. And with the look of it, to me, moviestar seems to finally catch up with sky. So it'll be interesting to see how those two teams in Giro and TDF.

sky's tactic isn't working at all. tell me how many classics have they won so far with this tremendous tactic?

 

[Pricey_sky]

why the hell do you think I conclude after this race? I know these riders for many eyars and they just are better riders/climbers than sky have. especially in quantity.

I agree, on the whole Movistar have the better climbers. However Sky have the best one in Froome, although Quintana is very close to that level and will maybe prove even better than him soon. The Giro will show us how far Nairo has progressed since last year.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I agree, on the whole Movistar have the better climbers. However Sky have the best one in Froome, although Quintana is very close to that level and will maybe prove even better than him soon. The Giro will show us how far Nairo has progressed since last year.

nairo is a better climber than froome already and he will only improve since being so young. his showing in san luis with overweight was already tremendous

 

[MatParker117]

sky's tactic isn't working at all. tell me how many classics have they won so far with this tremendous tactic?

including semi classics and other one day races? Nine.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

including semi classics and other one day races? Nine.

no I'm, talking about the real classics

 

[Sasquatch]

Ok we got the Choo Choos out of the way, well at least the ones specializing in transporting large groups in the mountains.

Moving to stage 3:

Looks ok for a flat stage. Maybe Mezgec or a break.

Simon or Ciolek

 

[Bakhjulet]

Hoping EBH can snatch a top 10 spot today...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Hoping EBH can snatch a top 10 spot today...

yeah that would make my weekend too

 

[greenedge]

I agree, on the whole Movistar have the better climbers. However Sky have the best one in Froome, although Quintana is very close to that level and will maybe prove even better than him soon.

Quintana=Froome
Valverde is probably = to Porte (I think Porte is very, very good but I'll probably get lambasted if I go on about how great he is)

Then i would rate Henao and Nieve as higher than most of the Movistar riders- in terms of career wins from climbs in recent years. Gadret and Anton are also great climbers but have not showed much in the last two years.

Kennaugh, Kiri and Lopez in my view are= to Moreno, Herrada and Intxausti. Admittedly then Movistar have Amador, Visconti, Syzmd and Cappechi but SKy also have other good riders who can climb- EBH/ Thomas, along with Dombrowski, Siutsou and the best domestique in Wiggins

Overall I would say they are = but Sky have been dominating for two years now so Movistar are the ones who have been playing catch up in terms of making it count in the mountain stages at the big races.

 

[TANK91]

yeah that would make my weekend too

Have you done your bets Ryo?, i did not no you was a fan of EBH.

 

[TANK91]

Does anyone have the route today isit a climbing stage imwatching it on europsport now but if its flat i wont bother continuing. Think its only highlight

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Have you done your bets Ryo?, i did not no you was a fan of EBH.

Pretty sure he is ironic. And with good reason, the huge talent EBH once was is not fighting for top 10s in some random race in spain where even Rebellin fights for podiums

 

[TANK91]

Quintana=Froome
Valverde is probably = to Porte (I think Porte is very, very good but I'll probably get lambasted if I go on about how great he is)

Then i would rate Henao and Nieve as higher than most of the Movistar riders- in terms of career wins from climbs in recent years. Gadret and Anton are also great climbers but have not showed much in the last two years.

Kennaugh, Kiri and Lopez in my view are= to Moreno, Herrada and Intxausti. Admittedly then Movistar have Amador, Visconti, Syzmd and Cappechi but SKy also have other good riders who can climb- EBH/ Thomas, along with Dombrowski, Siutsou and the best domestique in Wiggins

Overall I would say they are = but Sky have been dominating for two years now so Movistar are the ones who have been playing catch up in terms of making it count in the mountain stages at the big races.

I agree completely about Porte v Valverde dont worry about getting lambasted bar 1 stage in the TDF Porte was superiousr to Valverde

 

[TANK91]

Pretty sure he is ironic. And with good reason, the huge talent EBH once was is not fighting for top 10s in some random race in spain where even Rebellin fights for podiums

Yes i know he is still a rider who can do well he should speak up and say i wont help with climbing its his fault not like Sky dont let him do his races isit. I think he does all the classics, i feel he should have stayed sprinting?

 

[maltiv]

Yes i know he is still a rider who can do well he should speak up and say i wont help with climbing its his fault not like Sky dont let him do his races isit. I think he does all the classics, i feel he should have stayed sprinting?

He should have stayed with attacking. That's how he used to win races.

 

[RedheadDane]

Does anyone know if this'll be live on Eurosport?

 

[TANK91]

sky's tactic isn't working at all. tell me how many classics have they won so far with this tremendous tactic?

How many have Movistar won? We all no your biast if Henao was 2nd instead of Quintana at the TDF and was the bigger talent you'd say sky have the best climbers and pound for pound Sky do have them, did you miss the TDF last year or you saying Porte is below Valverde.

All Porte is yet to do is have the result to back it up, these races or Valverde's best as their punchy climbs Valverde was not better in the TDF than Porte, Porte had 1 bad day.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Yes i know he is still a rider who can do well he should speak up and say i wont help with climbing its his fault not like Sky dont let him do his races isit. I think he does all the classics, i feel he should have stayed sprinting?

He should have gone to some smalish IAM like team where he can be captain and focus on taking the hilly stages in the tour and other stage races.