RVV - new finale

[Echoes]

a quote from Merckx - 'I didn’t like the Tour of Flanders too much.'

Yeah, he hated it. Climbs are short and there are too many loops which gives weaker riders the chance to recup. No other classic has so many obscure riders in its palmarès.

Tour of Flanders is Paris-Roubaix's "little sister" and will always be.


Also until the mid-eighties there were REAL laps in the finale. Some riders were even outlapped. Very kermess-like.

No big classic would feel the need to adopt one climb, multiple times. That's something for Amstel or the Arrow. Could you imagine Liège-Bastogne finishing in Spa with five loops around it for five ascents on the Haute-Levée or Stockeu? Lol.

Making a finale harder is also stupid, if you ask me. The route of a race should be strengthened at its two-third/three quarters in order to be entertaining. that's what the route looked like (Koppenberg, Kwaremont, Patersberg first, Tenbosse, Kapelmuur, Bosberg then). Finishing with the harder climbs is inviting to wait for it, just like an ever boring Amstel. Though well, Flanders' climbs aren't as hard as Dutch Limburg climbs anyway.


And yeah, true classics don't feel the need to change its course so radically, including the finish. I do regret it about Lombardy though. A "classic" is a classic because year after year it has the same key difficulties which remain in the collective memories.



And don't tell me that this piece of sh*t will become legend in 20 years. The Walloon Arrow course is more than 20 year old and it still sucks more than ever.


And in order to correct some posts here, the Muur was added to Flanders' route in 1934, with the Chapel in 1952.

Cipressa in Milan-Sanremo in 1982. Poggio in 1960.

 

[El Pistolero]

Big winners rarely make a great race. Petacchi, Cavendish and Cipolini on a Monument's palmares might be big names, but they suck in real hard races. It's the hardness of the course that defines a Monument above all(and history, but they didn't lose that now did they). Milan-San Remo is a joke, Lombardia changes it's course a lot and Paris-Roubaix has just as many obscure winners.

 

[MartinGT]

By the way, Oudenaarde is a really beautiful city while Ninove is an ugly piece of sh*t. So the finish line will definitely be better. It will just need 20 years to make the prestige of the Kwaremont go up. It will get the same status of the Muur in due time.

Agreed

Stayed in Ghent this year and visited Oudenaarde to watch the womens start this year and then walked to the Eikenburg to watch the women & men come though.

My fave race of the year by far!

 

[Pantani_lives]

The reactions of Belgian cycling fans are overwhelmingly negative. A great classic has been ruined and it will never be the same.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

The reactions of Belgian cycling fans are overwhelmingly negative. A great classic has been ruined and it will never be the same.

True that, it's a disgrace

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

By the way, Oudenaarde is a really beautiful city while Ninove is an ugly piece of sh*t.

That's really true Meerbeke has no character at all.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

The reactions of Belgian cycling fans are overwhelmingly negative. A great classic has been ruined and it will never be the same.

No it will never be the same, but does it have to?

 

[El Pistolero]

I think the same atmosphere can be created on the Kwaremont. But Flanders is oh so conservative.

 

[MartinGT]

Nobody likes change do they? Give it a couple of years and I am sure it will slowly change.

Although the iconic Muur and images of the crowds there and the famous attacks on it.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Actually, Oude Kwaremont really is my favorite flemmish hill...

 

[El Pistolero]

Mine is the Koppenberg. Imagine that as the last hill.

 

[Descender]

Yeah, he hated it. Climbs are short and there are too many loops which gives weaker riders the chance to recup. No other classic has so many obscure riders in its palmarès.

Tour of Flanders is Paris-Roubaix's "little sister" and will always be.


Also until the mid-eighties there were REAL laps in the finale. Some riders were even outlapped. Very kermess-like.

No big classic would feel the need to adopt one climb, multiple times. That's something for Amstel or the Arrow. Could you imagine Liège-Bastogne finishing in Spa with five loops around it for five ascents on the Haute-Levée or Stockeu? Lol.

Making a finale harder is also stupid, if you ask me. The route of a race should be strengthened at its two-third/three quarters in order to be entertaining. that's what the route looked like (Koppenberg, Kwaremont, Patersberg first, Tenbosse, Kapelmuur, Bosberg then). Finishing with the harder climbs is inviting to wait for it, just like an ever boring Amstel. Though well, Flanders' climbs aren't as hard as Dutch Limburg climbs anyway.


And yeah, true classics don't feel the need to change its course so radically, including the finish. I do regret it about Lombardy though. A "classic" is a classic because year after year it has the same key difficulties which remain in the collective memories.



And don't tell me that this piece of sh*t will become legend in 20 years. The Walloon Arrow course is more than 20 year old and it still sucks more than ever.


And in order to correct some posts here, the Muur was added to Flanders' route in 1934, with the Chapel in 1952.

Cipressa in Milan-Sanremo in 1982. Poggio in 1960.

Whaaat?

And we've had this discussion before, but Paris-Roubaix has as many unknown and obscure winners as RvV...

 

[Pantani_lives]

One of the charms of the RvV was the diversity of the climbs: longer, short, steep, less steep, with or without cobblestones. A lot of surprise attacks were possible, like Museeuw on Ten Bosse, Devolder on the Valkenberg... You had to know the course really well. All that is gone now with just two climbs in the final.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

But all that being said: I agree they should have never excluded de muur, and 2 passages over Kwaremont & Pater would have been more than enough.

 

[El Pistolero]

One of the charms of the RvV was the diversity of the climbs: longer, short, steep, less steep, with or without cobblestones. A lot of surprise attacks were possible, like Museeuw on Ten Bosse, Devolder on the Valkenberg... You had to know the course really well. All that is gone now with just two climbs in the final.

There were alwyas only 2 climbs in the final? It was the Muur-Bosberg and now it is Kwaremont-Paterberg.

 

[CasperVg]

There were alwyas only 2 climbs in the final? It was the Muur-Bosberg and now it is Kwaremont-Paterberg.

Sadly enough they decided not to fix the 'final climb is too far from the finish' problem - in fact, they've only made it worse, as Paterberg is 2km further away from the finish. And all that while the Koppenberg is only 4km away from the finish in the Minderbroedersstraat..

 

[hrotha]

Sadly enough they decided not to fix the 'final climb is too far from the finish' problem - in fact, they've only made it worse, as Paterberg is 2km further away from the finish. And all that while the Koppenberg is only 4km away from the finish in the Minderbroedersstraat..

I don't see it as a problem. It's a chance for classics specialists to show they have brains, if the selection has already been done before. If they moved the final climb closer to the finish they might as well declare Gilbert as the winner right now.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sadly enough they decided not to fix the 'final climb is too far from the finish' problem - in fact, they've only made it worse, as Paterberg is 2km further away from the finish. And all that while the Koppenberg is only 4km away from the finish in the Minderbroedersstraat..

But now it's heavier. Cancellara could be dropped already on the second passage. Phil is one of the fastest at a flat finish in the Ronde. Boonen is better of course, but he looks past it. Boonen in 2005-2006 was pretty much unbeatable at Flanders.

 

[Anonymous]

One of the charms of the RvV was the diversity of the climbs: longer, short, steep, less steep, with or without cobblestones. A lot of surprise attacks were possible, like Museeuw on Ten Bosse, Devolder on the Valkenberg... You had to know the course really well. All that is gone now with just two climbs in the final.

Have you looked at the course? The 2 loops are different and the winner will still have to know those roads.

I imagine the 2012 RvV will be harder to control. The distance between climbs becomes shorter (for the most part) towards the end. Overall, the race will be harder, more frenetic particularly in the final.

 

[Anonymous]

Sadly enough they decided not to fix the 'final climb is too far from the finish' problem - in fact, they've only made it worse, as Paterberg is 2km further away from the finish. And all that while the Koppenberg is only 4km away from the finish in the Minderbroedersstraat..

I don't think this is necessarily a problem. I think wind will play a bigger role in the run in.

 

[Race Radio]

Have you looked at the course? The 2 loops are different and the winner will still have to know those roads.

I imagine the 2012 RvV will be harder to control. The distance between climbs becomes shorter (for the most part) towards the end. Overall, the race will be harder, more frenetic particularly in the final.

Exactly. It will be chaos that late in the race. The last 50km will be much harder in every way

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=OG3FQED5

Eddie agrees

 

[Rudisha]

Exactly. It will be chaos that late in the race. The last 50km will be much harder in every way

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=OG3FQED5

Eddie agrees

It should be said that he was a consultant to help create this new route. Vandenhaute ain't dumb.

 

[Echoes]

Whaaat?

They are a bit longer, I think. But since they're all gathered together in the final 20km, it sucks, anyway. Thank God, the new Flanders' route doesn't have the Koppenberg with 10km to go. That would be the deepest sh*t they could have made.

And we've had this discussion before, but Paris-Roubaix has as many unknown and obscure winners as RvV...

1966: Sels - Gimondi > Roubaix
1967: Zandegu - Janssen > Roubaix
1968: Godefroot - Merckx > Roubaix
1969: Merckx - Godefroot > Flanders (thanks the weather)
1970: Leman - Merckx > Roubaix
1971: Dolman - Rosiers > Roubaix
1972: Leman - De Vlaeminck > Roubaix
1973: Leman - Merckx > Roubaix
1974: Bal - De Vlaeminck > Roubaix lol
1975: Merckx - De Vlaeminck > Flanders
1976: Planckaert Wa. - Demeyer > equal
1977: same winner
1978: Godefroot - Moser > Roubaix (the classic specialist - sic -, lol)
1979: Raas - Moser > Roubaix
1980: Pollentier - Moser > Roubaix
1981: Kuiper - Hinault > Roubaix
1982: Martens - Raas > Roubaix
1983: Raas - Kuiper > Roubaix
1984: Lammerts - Kelly > Roubaix lol
1985: Vanderaerden - Madiot > Flanders
1986: van der Poel - Kelly > Roubaix
1987: Criquielion - Vanderaerden > Flanders
1988: Planckaert E - Demol > Flanders
1989: Van Hooydonck - Wampers > Flanders
1990: Argentin - Planckaert E > Argentin started his partnership with Ferrari. No assessment
1991: Van Hooydonck - Madiot > equal
1992: Durand - Duclos-Lassalle> Roubaix

The rest of the nineties does not deserve consideration.

17-6 for Roubaix.

Case closed.

 

[L'arriviste]

Loving that frank assessment.

Echoes is the real Flemish monument.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Indeed, Koppenberg in the last 25k would be 'koersvervalsing' as we say in Dutch.

That climb is 99% positioning and when you are not in the first 3 when they start the climb you are screwed. It has nothing to do with racing.