Sagan better than a Cav?

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Jun 25, 2012
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I still think Cav is better on the flat without any doubt..

But Sagan is for sure the better all arounder and maybe even the better rider when it comes to the green jersey...

Personaly, I dislike Cavs personality... I like Sagan so far and he is quite funny ^^


But again, I would not say one is better than the other in every way... still I like Sagan better--
 
Aug 2, 2010
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Panda Claws said:
Let's just wait 'till the 2 of them REALLY face each other.

LBL is not a tour stage with an uphill finish. :rolleyes:
Oh... in the last year all of your posts start with "let's wait until...". sagan was close at MSR, RVV, and Amstel at 22. we are talking about a guy many levels above gilbert.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Sagan was never close at the Ronde. He got owned big time by Pippo.

Sagan knows how to wheelsuck Cancellara, he just wasn't good enough to do it in Milan-San Remo. So was never close there as well. At Amstel he got beaten by Gasparotto and Vanendert.
 
Sep 8, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Everyone that is not a climber should retire. It's Sagan show from now on. Cycling will become the most boring sport in the world.
until he discovers the coke and the awesome night life of monte carlo that is


sagan is a beast no doubt and i want him to survive somehow the tomorrow's stage

until now,he was one of the few great things of this tour.him and his celebrations
 
Aug 2, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Sagan was never close at the Ronde. He got owned big time by Pippo.

Sagan knows how to wheelsuck Cancellara, he just wasn't good enough to do it in Milan-San Remo. So was never close there as well. At Amstel he got beaten by Gasparotto and Vanendert.
at 22 he smoked gilbert like a rocket in MSR, RVV and Amstel. is this better for you el p.? as you wish.. the guy is that good.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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jens_attacks said:
until he discovers the coke and the awesome night life of monte carlo that is


sagan is a beast no doubt and i want him to survive somehow the tomorrow's stage

until now,he was one of the few great things of this tour.him and his celebrations
he is making you like him a lot, isn't he? :) you are defeated
 
Jul 16, 2010
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c&cfan said:
at 22 he smoked gilbert like a rocket in MSR, RVV and Amstel. is this better for you el p.? as you wish.. the guy is that good.
Gilbert was bad this year, beating him this year is hardly a good argument to claim he's super good.

Phil crashed at Milan-San Remo. Are you saying Sagan is that good that he can beat guys that crash?:rolleyes:

Last year Phil owned him in all the classics.
 
There is no way that Sagan wins white this year. He might actually have the capacity to beat the other U-25 riders in GC, who knows, but there is no way that he wins it this year considering all the energy he has wasted in sprints and intermediates in the first week. If he somehow follows this week up with beating the other young riders in the mountains then I will scream bloody murder and go down and raid his hotels and home myself until I find what I'm looking for.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Gilbert was bad this year, beating him this year is hardly a good argument to claim he's super good.

Phil crashed at Milan-San Remo. Are you saying Sagan is that good that he can beat guys that crash?:rolleyes:

Last year Phil owned him in all the classics.
so for phil owning a 21 year old that isn't even present at some of those races means that he is that good? :roll eyes:

phil is irrelevant in the presence of a legendary talent, like sagan is showing to be. phil is a mini rebellin... and he was bad because he isn't that good, his natural talent isn't enough for a 2011 season again.

Compare that to a cancellara, that even when looses he shows that he is the strongest or close.. phil was just smoked and will be smoked again, don't worry.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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ingsve said:
There is no way that Sagan wins white this year. He might actually have the capacity to beat the other U-25 riders in GC, who knows, but there is no way that he wins it this year considering all the energy he has wasted in sprints and intermediates in the first week. If he somehow follows this week up with beating the other young riders in the mountains then I will scream bloody murder and go down and raid his hotels and home myself until I find what I'm looking for.
so just because he is better and wins sprints he isn't allowed to beat the youngsters that will be killing themselves for their leaders?ok.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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c&cfan said:
so for phil owning a 21 year old that isn't even present at some of those races means that he is that good? :roll eyes:

phil is irrelevant in the presence of a legendary talent, like sagan is showing to be. phil is a mini rebellin... and he was bad because he isn't that good, his natural talent isn't enough for a 2011 season again.

Compare that to a cancellara, that even when looses he shows that he is the strongest or close.. phil was just smoked and will be smoked again, don't worry.
Does that mean Valverde has no natural talent as well? :D

Ps: Phil has twice the palmares of Rebellin.

PPS: Sagan was there at AGR and LBL last year. And got smoked big time.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
Does that mean Valverde has no natural talent as well? :D

Ps: Phil has twice the palmares of Rebellin.

PPS: Sagan was there at AGR and LBL last year. And got smoked big time.
Valverde was screwed and has twice (or more) the palmares of gilbert, and it's very diversified. much better rider than phil (prior to his ban, obviously).

Ps: yes but you knew what i meant.. phil isn't the best and never will be. Now we know who is phil's bettini, valverde, etc.

PPs: yes he was there, at 21, to gain experience after hard races and great results. the result? he smoked phil in his prime at 22.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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No Valverde has no talent according to your logic...

Pretty sure Phil was the best last year and the year before in uphill finishes ;)

Sagan also has no talent if he ever has a bad year according to your logic.

I wonder how all these guys win so many big races without talent. :eek:
 
c&cfan said:
at 22 he smoked gilbert like a rocket in MSR, RVV and Amstel. is this better for you el p.? as you wish.. the guy is that good.
Really?

Gilbert fell at MSR.

If we are talking about beating a clearly not-in-shape rider...

Thomas Voeckler must be a far superior GT rider to Contador now, since he crushingly beat him in the Tour 2011.

How about Bruseghin totally smoking Rodriguez in the Vuelta 2011.

To make matters even worse Cancellara lost the TDS TT to Kessiakoff, guess his days as a TT god are over. :eek: :rolleyes:



Sagan could very well become a contender for tough hilly classics like LBL and GDL, until then... remember that AGR does not even come close to those 2.
 
Dec 30, 2011
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He isnt as fast as Cav and considering the likely fact that he is improving early he probably never will ve quite as fast as Cav but he is pretty close.

He is better than Cav at nearly everything else asides for sprint positioning
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Froome19 said:
He isnt as fast as Cav and considering the likely fact that he is improving early he probably never will ve quite as fast as Cav but he is pretty close.

He is better than Cav at nearly everything else asides for sprint positioning
But Sagan might improve his positioning skills as he grows older and thus get an edge on Cav.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
No Valverde has no talent according to your logic...

Pretty sure Phil was the best last year and the year before in uphill finishes ;)

Sagan also has no talent if he ever has a bad year according to your logic.

I wonder how all these guys win so many big races without talent. :eek:
If your cognitive capacity is at least normal you will understand:

every cyclist must have some talent. phil has talent, but valverde (for example) has much more.

My logic, like every normal person understands, means that a guy that only has 1 good year (gil, rebellin) is nothing compared to very talented riders, even if those riders have bad years (tom, canc, alberto, valverde).

to put it simply, at 22, sagan is a better rider than phil ever was (with the exception of 2011). phil level isn't 2011, that was a strange and abnormal exception and we will leave that for the clinic.
 
I see El P has got both accounts working on this one.:D
Sagan takes over from Cav in the hate stakes.
Best solution is to start a campaign to get young Peter Belgian citizenship.:p

Could get good next year, if Gilbert can regain that illusive form and young Mr Sagan will be a year less young.

Have to agree with c&c, though. At 22, there is no comparison. Sagan light years ahead of Gilbert at this career point.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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Panda Claws said:
Really?

Gilbert fell at MSR.

If we are talking about beating a clearly not-in-shape rider...

Thomas Voeckler must be a far superior GT rider to Contador now, since he crushingly beat him in the Tour 2011.

How about Bruseghin totally smoking Rodriguez in the Vuelta 2011.

To make matters even worse Cancellara lost the TDS TT to Kessiakoff, guess his days as a TT god are over. :eek: :rolleyes:



Sagan could very well become a contender for tough hilly classics like LBL and GDL, until then... remember that AGR does not even come close to those 2.
here comes the fanboy number 2.

Clearly not in shape rider? Sagan produced far more awesomeness this year than gilbert ever did (except 2011) and you are talking like if the rider of 2011 is the "base" gilbert? can't you see what is wrong? let's leave that for the clinic then.

pS
 
Jan 22, 2011
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For those who keep bringing his age up - one thing you have to take into consideration is that he's eastern European. I mean Berzin just turned 24 when he won the Giro, for example. At 23 he won LBL
 
Dec 30, 2011
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El Pistolero said:
But Sagan might improve his positioning skills as he grows older and thus get an edge on Cav.
Cav's positioning will most likely always be better than Sagan's as it is one of the best in the peloton
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
Have to agree with c&c, though. At 22, there is no comparison. Sagan light years ahead of Gilbert at this career point.
We weren't discussing that. Eric Vanderaerden was also light years ahead of Phil when both were 22. Vanderaerden was ready to retire at age 25 though.

People peak at different times. Some peak late, some peak early. I really doubt Sagan is a late peaker. ;)

Ps: we both know you're my troll account.
 
Dec 30, 2011
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Fetisoff said:
For those who keep bringing his age up - one thing you have to take into consideration is that he's eastern European. I mean Berzin just turned 24 when he won the Giro, for example. At 23 he won LBL
Indeed I mentioned this in a previous post and it is something which people seem to overlook... he most likely will not improve as much as other talented riders at this stage but he is still improving and his talent is currently considerable so I can see achieving a ridiculous amount of success
 
Jan 22, 2011
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By the way, a bit of an off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread for this, maybe someone can answer it here.

Is there somewhere I can find a list of professionals with most ever wins, or current riders with most wins/more than 100 wins in a career or something of that matter? Couldn't find nothing myself
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Fetisoff said:
By the way, a bit of an off-topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread for this, maybe someone can answer it here.

Is there somewhere I can find a list of professionals with most ever wins, or current riders with most wins/more than 100 wins in a career or something of that matter? Couldn't find nothing myself
Petacchi has most wins of active riders. 160 I think... Second was Robbie Mcewen with 110+, but he retired. Third(second now) is Boonen. I saw a list of this in a newspaper once... It was about active riders obviously and only UCI wins were counted(point jerseys weren't counted either, but wouldn't have affected the order of the list anyway).
 

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