Sagan better than a Cav?

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Mar 26, 2009
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ingsve said:
There is no way that Sagan wins white this year. He might actually have the capacity to beat the other U-25 riders in GC, who knows, but there is no way that he wins it this year considering all the energy he has wasted in sprints and intermediates in the first week. If he somehow follows this week up with beating the other young riders in the mountains then I will scream bloody murder and go down and raid his hotels and home myself until I find what I'm looking for.

Doubt you'll find anyone else that thinks Sagan has "wasted" energy sprinting for wins. I'm hoping this was just a bad word choice and you meant "used".
 
El Pistolero said:
We weren't discussing that. Eric Vanderaerden was also light years ahead of Phil when both were 22. Vanderaerden was ready to retire at age 25 though.

People peak at different times. Some peak late, some peak early. I really doubt Sagan is a late peaker. ;)
Nothing to disagree with, here. Kinda disappointed.;)
 
May 31, 2011
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I didn't read all posts in this thread. But Sagan and Cav are simply different type of sprinters. So different qualities. You shouldn't compare the two. Cav can lsoe as much weight as he wants, but I don't see him finishing third in AGR.
 
Dec 30, 2011
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Azabael said:
I didn't read all posts in this thread. But Sagan and Cav are simply different type of sprinters. So different qualities. You shouldn't compare the two. Cav can lsoe as much weight as he wants, but I don't see him finishing third in AGR.
We will see if you have the same opinion after the Olympics ;)

But in all seriousness I agree and I think the creation of this thread wasnt really all that serious.... maybe it was meant to compare how much success each one will receive but even that is difficult to assess.
 
Jan 22, 2011
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El Pistolero said:
Petacchi has most wins of active riders. 160 I think... Second was Robbie Mcewen with 110+, but he retired. Third(second now) is Boonen.
Thanks. So there's only two active riders with 100+ wins then. Any idea how many Cav has?
 
Oct 30, 2011
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Just counted up, I make it 96, which includes 9 points classifications and 3 TTTs.
 
Apr 16, 2011
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Cav was the meal car of the greatest train on the greatest course in history. Even his crashes outshine Sagan's victories.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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woodenswan said:
made a recount i see :D

points classifications are def wins though aren't they?
Yes, English wiki > Dutch wiki :D

Only GT point jerseys are wins, but they weren't counted in the list I saw, so I didn't include them. It's just +2 for Cav, so doesn't really matter.
 
c&cfan said:
here comes the fanboy number 2.

Clearly not in shape rider? Sagan produced far more awesomeness this year than gilbert ever did (except 2011) and you are talking like if the rider of 2011 is the "base" gilbert? can't you see what is wrong? let's leave that for the clinic then.

pS
According to you I fail to see that Gilbert 2011 is not Gilbert's 'base' form?

Sure, buddy dream on. I was comparing Gilbert 2012 to Gilbert 2010 or (to be generous 2009) which is probably the 'base' Gilbert.

So let me just ask you this one little question.


Do you really believe that Spring 2012 Gilbert = 2010 Gilbert? :rolleyes:

Now, do you? If not, your assumptions throughout this discussion have all been wrong.
 
Jul 24, 2011
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El Pistolero said:
Only GT point jerseys are wins
that seems to be the case. cyclingnews didnt count other point jerseys either back in the article about Boonen's 100th victory. it very much seems like an arbitrary decision though, not taking those into consideration.

is this a widely accepted view? only counting GT point jerseys as pro victories?

edit: turns out they did count all the jerseys :D i just ballsed up my count. bad. i blame it on an incoming phone call midway through. so the fascinating saga of whether or not a random point jersey is a w comes to an end. it was a thrilling journey for all of us im sure :D :D edit2: woodenswan with another absolutely random claim, claiming that el pistolero's was another random claim
 
Jul 16, 2010
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woodenswan said:
that seems to be the case. cyclingnews didnt count other point jerseys either back in the article about Boonen's 100th victory. it very much seems like an arbitrary decision though, not taking those into consideration.

is this a widely accepted view? only counting GT point jerseys as pro victories?

edit: turns out they did count all the jerseys :D i just ballsed up my count. bad. i blame it on an incoming phone call midway through. so the fascinating saga of whether or not a random point jersey is a w comes to an end. it was a thrilling journey for all of us im sure :D :D el pistolero with another absolutely random claim
It's not a random claim, it's a widely accepted view. They did not count point jerseys when talking about Boonen's 100th victory at that Paris-Nice stage. Count for yourself if you don't believe me.

Take a look at how many victories Boonen has this season on CQranking. They say 10, not including his "coveted" point jersey of the Tour of Qatar.
 
Jul 24, 2011
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El Pistolero said:
It's not a random claim, it's a widely accepted view. They did not count point jerseys when talking about Boonen's 100th victory at that Paris-Nice stage. Count for yourself if you don't believe me.

Take a look at how many victories Boonen has this season on CQranking. They say 10, not including his "coveted" point jersey of the Tour of Qatar.
look at my lovely 2nd edit :D

obviously it is not one of the most coveted prizes in cycling. the Qatar point jersey. it just seems like a totally arbitrary thing, not counting those. where's the logic? why have a points classification then? Boonen btw, has had a surprisingly low amount of such wins. But look at Sagan: Paris Nice, Tour de Suisse 2x, Tour of Cali 3x. CQ counts his Suisse jersey, but disregards Cali, AND his Giro di Sardegna jersey!

JUSTICE FOR QATAR! JUSTICE FOR SARDEGNA!
 
Nov 26, 2009
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Sagan showed speed today

Today was the first day that I saw Sagan really give full gas. And he passed both Greipal and Goss. He's very savvy for 22, so why go maximum effort against cocky Cavendish when he can pick his battles over the long haul. He will be better than Cav but perhaps not win as much because he's not as brash.
 
c&cfan said:
Compare that to a cancellara, that even when looses he shows that he is the strongest or close.. phil was just smoked and will be smoked again, don't worry.
At RVV Phil attacked- he was not in great form but still made a little group that was away.

In AGR i seem to remember Gilbert was the one who reeled in Freire- without that the race would have been lost for everyone.

Sagan i can envisage getting more wins than Cav in his lifetime but for the moment i still consider Cav the better sprinter.

Both will go down as very good cyclists- one the best sprinter- with the most wins probably at the TDF, the other one compared to Eddy ( already ) shall win tons of races.
 

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