sagan over 9000

[Panda Claws]

I won't. He deserved it in 2010, it was taken away from him. But not in 2011.
If not Rojas, it should've been Gilbert with the old rules

Gilbert missed the time limit as well in that stage.

 

[The Hitch]

Cadel Evans

If old rules mean pre 2011 then still cav would have won though maybe Gilbert would have tried more.

But if the rules were points rules rather than sprinter biased rules, as i personally think they should be, then it would have been an interesting competition.

Cav would still have won but Gilbert would have pushed him further, Hushovd maybe , Cadel maybe and Samu with 1st 2nd 2nd, 4th, two 7ths a few top 15s and the points for making the cut on Galibier and Alpe, could have also challenged.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

If not Rojas, it should've been Gilbert with the old rules

So you wanted Cav to ride to rules which don't exist anymore?

Tell you what, shall we go back to 1905 rules, under which Cav would have been the winner of the Tour?

 

[El Pistolero]

The point was: no one else but Cav can win the green jersey with these rules.

 

[Panda Claws]

The point was: no one else but Cav can win the green jersey with these rules.

+1

I feel like they should also make intermediate sprints matter less again.

 

[nobilis]

So you wanted Cav to ride to rules which don't exist anymore?

Tell you what, shall we go back to 1905 rules, under which Cav would have been the winner of the Tour?

I'm blaming the organisers, not cav.

 

[The Hitch]

I won't. He deserved it in 2010, it was taken away from him. But not in 2011.
If not Rojas, it should've been Gilbert with the old rules

You mean 09 when Hushovd got a favourable decision that gave him enough to win the jersey?

Because i dont remember much wrong with 10.

Personally i think he deserved it much more in 2011. In 10 and 09 Hushovd was immense riding in breakaways on mountain stages to get crap points, while Cav was getting 5 times as many by winning a sprint.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

There was nothing wrong with last year's. We had riders as different as Cav, Rojas and Gilbert still in the hunt, right up until late in the final week. Indeed, Rojas was in the hunt right up until the last few hundred metres.

 

[nobilis]

You mean 09 when Hushovd got a favourable decision that gave him enough to win the jersey?

Because i dont remember much wrong with 10.

Personally i think he deserved it much more in 2011. In 10 and 09 Hushovd was immense riding in breakaways on mountain stages to get crap points, while Cav was getting 5 times as many by winning a sprint.

sorry i meant 09 when cav was disqualified

 

[TomasC]

Guys I just clicked on this thread about Sagan and didn't find anything about him on like 4 last pages.
OTOH, glad I learned something about rules

 

[will10]

Guys I just clicked on this thread about Sagan and didn't find anything about him on like 4 last pages.
OTOH, glad I learned something about rules

Sagan -> possible goals -> Tour green jersey -> green jersey discussion

Not rocket science.

 

[The Hitch]

There was nothing wrong with last year's. We had riders as different as Cav, Rojas and Gilbert still in the hunt, right up until late in the final week. Indeed, Rojas was in the hunt right up until the last few hundred metres.

Rojas was never ever going to beat Cav on Champs Elysee yet alone finish 4 places above him like he needed.


As for Gilbert the fact that he had the green after 3 stages 2 of which were hill top finishes, doesnt mean he was in the hunt any more than Hushovd being in yellow on stage 6 made him a gc contender.

It was pretty clear Cav was going to win it.

I fail to see how Cav vs other sprinter that happens to have good form that year, is a more interesting annual competition to have than sprinters vs hill riders vs mountain riders vs breakaway riders vs all terrain riders.

 

[karlboss]

If I were Sagan, I'd already be setting the goal, win every monument once.

Is he riding too much? I don't think so, when folks are riding too much they don't continue performing. The other side is, these are not GTs he's doing, they are one day races.

 

[El Pistolero]

Rojas was never ever going to beat Cav on Champs Elysee yet alone finish 4 places above him like he needed.


As for Gilbert the fact that he had the green after 3 stages 2 of which were hill top finishes, doesnt mean he was in the hunt any more than Hushovd being in yellow on stage 6 made him a gc contender.

It was pretty clear Cav was going to win it.

I fail to see how Cav vs other sprinter that happens to have good form that year, is a more interesting annual competition to have than sprinters vs hill riders vs mountain riders vs breakaway riders vs all terrain riders.

Tbh, I don't think climbers should be able to win the green jersey. They already have the yellow jersey and the polkadot jersey(with the new rules it awards the best climber or at least one of the best).

I think it should be a battle between pure sprinters(Cav, Farrar, Petacchi), power sprinters(Hushovd, Boonen, Sagan) and hilly riders(Gilbert, Sagan)

 

[nobilis]

Sagan is not racing much more than the average WT rider. Even for his age.
According to cqranking, he has 26 racing days so far (36 for the rider with the most days) and 4000 kms compared to Boonen's 5600.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sagan is not racing much more than the average WT rider. Even for his age.
According to cqranking, he has 26 racing days so far (36 for the rider with the most days) and 4000 kms compared to Boonen's 5600.

But Boonen can handle that, he didn't race that much when he was 22.

 

[nobilis]

But Boonen can handle that, he didn't race that much when he was 22.

yeah true. The point is that I think he's having a reasonable build-up to his career. In 2010, he didn't do any GT. In 2011, he did the Vuelta, and this year will do the tour.

 

[hfer07]

who here thinks that sagan is racing more than he should?

he showed (at 21) he can win MSR, RVV, and today he murdered gilbert in the cauberg, after a failed attack with voeckler.

nibali (an amazing rider) is costing him better results. he didn't help win when he needed in MSR, arguably costing him a victory, and today.. well...

is it time for sagan to move? witch team? isn't he overdoing it (races he always tries to win.. not walks like andy).

Sorry but you got it all wrong-Nibali is the one getting annoyed by Sagan every time he's going for an overall title when Peter goes for the win without thinking in time bonuses/gaps - In fact is Sagan himself who has benefited the most of Nibali's company

Sagan's youth is the problem- he has achieved so much in such short time that some people are loosing sleep over what should be his next move & what he "must achieve"- To me, Sagan needs to "learn"-and by that I mean everything- as a rider he needs to develop "tactics" & get wiser-he must learn how to read a race correctly, so he'll be able to make the right moves at the right time. Also-as the big wins start to come-he needs a good management so he remain grounded & won't become a high maintenance Diva and end up wasting his talent by appearing everywhere & not where he needs to be.....

 

[c&cfan]

Sagan is not racing much more than the average WT rider. Even for his age.
According to cqranking, he has 26 racing days so far (36 for the rider with the most days) and 4000 kms compared to Boonen's 5600.

you are seriously saying this sh+t? really?

it's like saying andy races more than contador each year. one thing is RACING, the other thing is training during races (hello andy).
obviously boonen has been an amazing monster this year, but the guy is at his peak.

sagan is very young, and racing to win everything, working for nibs, etc. he sees a sprint, he goes for it, he sees a TT, he goes for it, he sees a small bump, hammer down, he sees a mountain, let's attack before it and go like the f+cking devil on the descent..

you see, this is racing.. this is a champion being made. only nibs, boonen, canc, contador and valverde are like that. crazy f+ckers. and between them, sagan is the only one that can hammer it in all kinds of terrain and he is so much younger.

he is overdoing it. look at EBH or even andy.

do you have any doubt that with better training/schedule they could be so much better? remember andy at the olympics, at 2009 ardennes? i want to watch that andy again. i want to watch the same EBH of 2009 (?) again. it's all about balance and the right management.

sagan looks like better than the 2 of them together, we cannot lose him.

 

[42x16ss]

you are seriously saying this sh+t? really?

it's like saying andy races more than contador each year. one thing is RACING, the other thing is training during races (hello andy).
obviously boonen has been an amazing monster this year, but the guy is at his peak.

sagan is very young, and racing to win everything, working for nibs, etc. he sees a sprint, he goes for it, he sees a TT, he goes for it, he sees a small bump, hammer down, he sees a mountain, let's attack before it and go like the f+cking devil on the descent..

you see, this is racing.. this is a champion being made. only nibs, boonen, canc, contador and valverde are like that. crazy f+ckers. and between them, sagan is the only one that can hammer it in all kinds of terrain and he is so much younger.

he is overdoing it. look at EBH or even andy.

do you have any doubt that with better training/schedule they could be so much better? remember andy at the olympics, at 2009 ardennes? i want to watch that andy again. i want to watch the same EBH of 2009 (?) again. it's all about balance and the right management.

sagan looks like better than the 2 of them together, we cannot lose him.

That's it, the kid is a beast and nearly always races for the win. With the season he's had so far Liquigas should either rest him until TOC, then only let him race either the Dauphine or TdS then the TdF, Olympics and end the season there, OR (my preference) rest him until TOC, skip TdS/Dauphine/TdP, then Olympics, Vuelta, 2 or 3 Autumn Classics and Worlds.

 

[ElChingon]

Racing too much? I bet you feel like you work too much and can't peek for your reach goals. (who ever posted that a racer races too much)

As forr TC rules, the race commisionare's always make exceptions, whether it be for a courageous rider, weather conditions, favortism, popular rider, most of the peoloton staging a lame safety issue.

As for polls, they rock and usually leave a nice permanant record.

Finally, Sagan will probably go to OPQS if he's smart or ever discusses that with Hincapie.

 

[c&cfan]

That's it, the kid is a beast and nearly always races for the win. With the season he's had so far Liquigas should either rest him until TOC, then only let him race either the Dauphine or TdS then the TdF, Olympics and end the season there, OR (my preference) rest him until TOC, skip TdS/Dauphine/TdP, then Olympics, Vuelta, 2 or 3 Autumn Classics and Worlds.

i would love it. he does not need the tour and he would hammer another vuelta, learning more and getting better results.

he has time to ride the tour, let's make him learn more about classics, getting tougher and more badass, do a GT to develop recovery and engine and win as many stages as possible, getting an even more amazing all-rounder.

to do the tour and not overdue it physically, everything after it would be compromised. f+ck the tour. it is the most boring race.. especially to someone like sagan. what would he do there, anyway? he still isn't fast enough to make the tour something worth it. one tour stage isn't great enough to compromise 3 or more vuelta wins, classics wins, great worlds and even a great lombardia! rest petter!

 

[c&cfan]

Racing too much? I bet you feel like you work too much and can't peek for your reach goals. (who ever posted that a racer races too much)

As forr TC rules, the race commisionare's always make exceptions, whether it be for a courageous rider, weather conditions, favortism, popular rider, most of the peoloton staging a lame safety issue.

As for polls, they rock and usually leave a nice permanant record.

Finally, Sagan will probably go to OPQS if he's smart or ever discusses that with Hincapie.

it is well know that in modern cycling, you want win LBL if you RACE rvv, pr, amstel, fw, b.pjil, pais vasco.

if you cannot understand the logic behind it, that's your problem. the level of this sport does not allow to someone to race a lot and win a lot without lots of compromises. if you race more than what you should (it varies from rider to rider) you will get worse results than what you could've had.

no farmers here anymore..

 

[greenedge]

I think he will now rest up and get at least 2 stages at the TDF/ one EBH style in a sprint and one Thor style.

He has raced the same amount as Gilbert ( except that he did not do Oman/ G-W ).
It's not so much for someone who can focus on so many races- as long as he gets adequate rests in between.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I agree that he should definitely aim for the Olympics, autumn classics and Worlds.

As future goals he should definitely aim to win all 5 monuments. He's the one with the best chance to win them all even though he's only 22.