Salvodelli vs Beloki - who will be better remembered?

[jaylew]

Whoa! Good to see you jaylew, it's been a while.

Yeah, life intruded and I was spending too much time here and other places online so I had to simplify. Things appear to be a little nicer around here than they were last year. Of course the Tour hasn't started yet, so there's plenty of time for that to change!

 

[BikeCentric]

It's the same stage Ryo Hazuki mentions above in his wild claims of teams buying other teams. The dirt roads were on the Colle delle Finestre.

Ardila worked with Savoldelli, yes. That's what riders do. They work together for mutual benefit. Ardila jumped a bunch of places on GC thanks to his efforts on that stage.

Ryo Hazuki also "conveniently" forgets to mention that Di Luca buried himself for former teammate and friend Simoni on that stage, eventually getting dropped after making some quite monster efforts to pull Simoni up the mountain while Simoni was having some bad cramps, while Di Luca should really be attacking to drop Simoni and get on the podium. But of course that doesn't fit with his story, so why should he mention it?

And now that I think about it further, wasn't Gallopin or Demol DS'ing for Discovery in that race?! Pretty sure Bruyneel wasn't even there, LOL.

 

[BikeCentric]

Yeah, life intruded and I was spending too much time here and other places online so I had to simplify. Things appear to be a little nicer around here than they were last year. Of course the Tour hasn't started yet, so there's plenty of time for that to change!

Welcome back.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Yeah, life intruded and I was spending too much time here and other places online so I had to simplify. Things appear to be a little nicer around here than they were last year. Of course the Tour hasn't started yet, so there's plenty of time for that to change!

Yeah, welcome back! And stick around a while.

 

[jaylew]

Now if I can only get myself back on the bike. Haven't ridden/raced in months.

 

[VeloFidelis]

I was concerned this might be another Knucklehead thread, but I have to say that civility and decorum has made it both entertaining and nostalgic. Thanks to all.

For me Savoldelli holds a brighter spot in my recollections. Both for his moments of brilliance and great disappointment in his early career. But more the class he displayed in his final years as a wise elder statesman, digging deep to produce some great results, and as a valuable team member contributing greatly to the overall effort.

Beloki I will remember for a spectacular crash, and as a solid GC performer and tactician. But the teams and programs within which he raced will always cloud any of his best results in my mind.

 

[Mambo95]

And now that I think about it further, wasn't Gallopin or Demol DS'ing for Discovery in that race?! Pretty sure Bruyneel wasn't even there, LOL.

It was Sean Yates.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I didn't know about this. Could you provide information that supports your claim?

yes you can look up the stage on youtube it happened right in front of a tv audience of millions worldwide

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's the same stage Ryo Hazuki mentions above in his wild claims of teams buying other teams. The dirt roads were on the Colle delle Finestre.

Ardila worked with Savoldelli, yes. That's what riders do. They work together for mutual benefit. Ardila jumped a bunch of places on GC thanks to his efforts on that stage.

Ryo Hazuki also "conveniently" forgets to mention that Di Luca buried himself for former teammate and friend Simoni on that stage, eventually getting dropped after making some quite monster efforts to pull Simoni up the mountain while Simoni was having some bad cramps, while Di Luca should really be attacking to drop Simoni and get on the podium. But of course that doesn't fit with his story, so why should he mention it?

this is so much bull**** ardila was 27th after that stage in gc. in fact ardila closed the gap to his own leader wim van huffel on the finestre with savoldelli in his wheel and ardila LIETERALLY waiting for savo when he dropped by the colombian. it was clear that bruyneel and lotto were working together or else savoldelli woudl've lost that giro

and di luca got cramps. you clearly haven;'t even seen the stage

 

[issoisso]

this is so much bull**** ardila was 27th after that stage in gc. in fact ardila closed the gap to his own leader wim van huffel on the finestre with savoldelli in his wheel and ardila LIETERALLY waiting for savo when he dropped by the colombian. it was clear that bruyneel and lotto were working together or else savoldelli woudl've lost that giro

and di luca got cramps. you clearly haven;'t even seen the stage

If you're just going to lie, I'm abstaining from this.

Have fun

 

[issoisso]

this is so much bull**** ardila was 27th after that stage in gc. in fact ardila closed the gap to his own leader wim van huffel on the finestre with savoldelli in his wheel and ardila LIETERALLY waiting for savo when he dropped by the colombian. it was clear that bruyneel and lotto were working together or else savoldelli woudl've lost that giro

and di luca got cramps. you clearly haven;'t even seen the stage

If you're just going to distort facts, I'm abstaining from this. And yes, I do have the race on DVD here.

But hey, have fun preaching to yourself

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

If you're just going to distort facts, I'm abstaining from this. And yes, I do have the race on DVD here.

But hey, have fun preaching to yourself

I just named facts just look them up it's you that is talking out of his ***

 

[VeloFidelis]

I just named facts just look them up it's you that is talking out of his ***

WOW!!

That went to sh!t really quickly. Now I remember why I don't come here that often.

 

[afpm90]

yes you can look up the stage on youtube it happened right in front of a tv audience of millions worldwide

I watched the stage. During the climb of the Fenistere, Ardila didn't help Savoldelli. Mauricio just sucked Savoldelli wheel all the climb. In the final climb, because Savoldelli during the descent picked up Wim Van Huffel, Ardilla did most of the work in the group. I think to help his leader. Van Huffel was 11th and Pietro Caucchioli, who was behind the group of Savoldelli, was 9th. So there was a opportunity to Van Huffel enter the top 10. I think that's the reason for Ardilla's work in Sestriere. And not an obscure agreement beetwen Bruyneel and Davittamon.

Even if the video of the stage showed something wrong, wich it doesn't, it wouldn't prove a thing.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

difficult, il falco(great nickname ) won 2 GT's which is epic and was one of the best descenders ever... not to say the best!
people only remember beloki because of his fall which made armstrong go CX'ing

 

[staubsauger]

ardillia was waiting for il falco you can see that on the yt clips.

 

[Ferdinand Artichoke]

who are they?

 

[SlantParallelogram]

Paolo Savoldelli by far. He won two grand tours.

Beloki can't say that.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

ardillia was waiting for il falco you can see that on the yt clips.

exactly you have to be totally blind to not see that. at one point the gap is over 2 minutes with savoldelli, at that point ardila is instructed to help savoldelli, this happens on the finestre even when his leader van huffel was still in front and ardila literally waiting for savoldelli every time he can't follow him.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Posters, the question is about who will be better remembered not nessercarily the better racer. Beloki's crash will make him most remembered because it was so devastating and it was where lance went across the field. That footage is so well known even amongst the casual cycling fan.

Better racer definetly 'il falco'.

 

[595RED]

Got to be Savoldelli, 2 x Giros goes a long way.

Beloki did make the podium in the Tour at the height of Armstrong's reign, but never looked like challenging, simply the best of the rest.

 

[Gregory]

Savoldelli will be much better remembered. Fortunately, outside U.S and Anglo-Saxon countries, the world is not Lance Armstrong obsessed enough, to put a spectacular fall near Armstrong, above two wins in the most beautiful Grand Tour.
Since here is some controversy concerning Savoldelli's performance in 2005 Giro, I'd like to add my two cents, since I remember that race very well.
Did Ardilla intentionally wait for Savoldelli and help him on Colle delle Finestre?
The answer is yes. But you also have to remember that in happened only on the last part of the climb. For most of the climb Savoldelli was riding all alone, and Ardilla was sitting on his wheel.
Was Di Luca burying himself for his "friend" Simoni? Not at all. Simoni and Di Luca are not close friends at all, they are colleagues at best. Di Luca (probably very doped) was playing his own cards. He was so strong, that he was probably thinking of moving up the classification. Anything was possible at that point, with time bonuses. He was surely thinking about passing Savoldelli and Rujano in GC. If it would be possible he would attack Simoni on the last climb. He simply got cramps, probably from his inexperience with climbing.
I propose to also look at the issue from a different angle. If Simoni and Savoldelli would be left all alone on the climb, without any help, would Savoldelli hold the lead? Definitely. It was Di Luca's pull that made the biggest difference, Simoni bennefited much more from Di Luca, than Savoldelli from Ardilla. Simoni was simply not strong enough - the last climb proves it.

Besides Savoldelli rode tremendously well in the Dolomites. He won in Zoldo Alto beating Basso and dropping Simoni. On the stage to Pordoi, Simoni attacked but Savoldelli caught him and dropped him easily. He had virtually no team to help him.
So Savoldelli was not lucky in that race. He was simply the best rider. He won fair and square.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Great stage:

Di Luca helping Simoni? Get serious... Di Luca was in the race for the win at that point, because there for a moment everything was possible. Simoni, Rujano, Di Luca or Savoldelli, all 4 could still win it, even if Di Luca was the furthest back. And he went up to fast anyway, that's what killed the group. As Simoni said in the interviews right after the stage, Danilo went to fast, we should have gone a bit slower to keep guys like Valjavec with us. And all those guys then ended up in Savoldellis group after the Finestre. Get less advantage there, Savoldelli will have less help, since he'll be alone or almost against a bigger group. Because it wasn't only Ardila/Van Huffel, Gonchar at one point joined in as well, Valjavec too I think... not sure anymore though, kind of remember that only one guy in the end didn't help...

In the back? Yep, Ardila waited for Savoldelli on top of the Finestre. But then Savoldelli waited for him in the downhill, was actually a slow downhill for Savoldelli, intelligent riding, keep the group together, will be faster than all alone. So he had ARdila and Van Huffel together, excellent. Savoldelli was completely done at the end. Alone he would have lost the Giro there.. .but he rode intelligently. Got his bottles from guys posted along the road since he had no team, rode up the Finestre at his own rhythm, then found allies when he needed them. Up to Sestrieres almost everybody helped.. why? Their GC positions.. although think some where already fixed anyway... but Van Huffel for his top 10. Then Savoldelli later said friendship played a role too. Savoldelli seems to have been a fairly popular rider in the peloton. Money? Not impossible. It's clear that Savoldelli profited a lot from the help there, but that's cycling. Would have prefered Simoni/Di Luca or Rujano to win it, never liked Savoldelli and agree with Ryo that he is very overrated, 02 was a joke of a Giro, and 05 he was just much stronger than usually. And have to admit that he rode a great race, didn't think he had a chance before the Giro, but he rode a great Giro and deserved the win. But 1 really good Giro, that's all he has ever shown, for the rest, good, but not excellent. Overrated.

 

[BeachBum]

Americans will remember Beloki and say "Savoldelli who"?

Uh, no.

Americans who follow bike racing will know who both of them are.

Americans who don't follow racing won't know either of them.

The sub-group of those that only follow LANCE 24/7 probably can't even name his teammates, let alone those he races (d) against.

 

[benpounder]

Hard one this. 2 Giros and the beest downhill thing vs crashing in front of Mighty Lance!

Seriously though, if Beloki didn't crash on the Rochette (was it that?), who knows..

I was sitting on the top of Cote de la Rochette that fateful day and rode into Gap on my ONCE carbon fibre Giant SLR to see where the crash happened. Not surprisingly, the French crowds were convinced that Lance had caused the crash (it wasnt until I rode back to our B&B that I learned that Joseba was seriously injured).

That said, Savoldelli's 2005 Giro performance was... epic. He could have lost the race on the second to last stage up Colle della Finestre and finishing on Sestriere, but being the stud he was, he let Simoni, Rujano, Di Luca, and Garate go off the front, but paced himself to finish close enough to win the overall - brilliant riding.

Short story long... it is a toss-up. Beloki's many GT podiums against the world's best verses Savoldelli's two very smart GT rides against lesser opponents.