Santambrogio tests positive for EPO

[The Hitch]

He won a grand tour, ergo he doped. Thats pretty much the logic here isn't it ?

Strange response.

It was you who said Nibali might test positive, not me or "the clinic" (whatever that is)

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yes but dope makes usually makes a bigger % difference than natural talent does at that level.

If you define "natural talent" as responding to doping, then you would be right. The current thinking is some riders are bigger responders. An alternative scenario is they experiment with enough doping products for a long time to find the magic combination that delivers a podium placement. As an example, JV1973 posted EPO wasn't magic for him. He needed recovery doping. (or something to that effect)

This will be repetition for some, but, keep in mind the range of results for EPO is negative->suspicious->positive. Time the EPO administration right at a low-enough dosage to deliver a suspicious, not a positive.

This AAF suggests Pat needs to appear tough on doping for now. I wonder what the discussions have been like between the UCI and DS's for the 100th TdF.

Maybe Santambrogio's performance fell off because he knew the positive was coming?

 

[DirtyWorks]

What does this mean for riders that were consistently around his level in watts/kg? Nibali, Uran, Evans, Majka, and I think Pozzovivo were all very close to him during the second and third weeks on power scales.

The phrase, "never tested positive" works pretty good. Remember the UCI has all the authority to open the case. WADA only recommends categorizing the results as a positive. The UCI can ignore their recommendations among a huge variety of ways to enable doping with the bio-passport.

Maybe Santambroggio got caught because he was stupid with the EPO administration? Maybe he was processed because he didn't get a podium? Maybe the UCI doesn't like him vs. the top-10 at the Giro? Impossible to know and easy to spin utterly false possibilities.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Poor Luca Scinto:

"What can I say, I'm stunned. I defended him more than any other rider because right from the start in Naples there were really bad rumours going around about him. I didn’t want to believe him and more than once I talked to him face to face. He said: 'It's only jealously, don’t worry but you can't keep asking me questions because they're offensive."

That must be in the handbook of Directeur Sportifs.
Luca, the man who brought in Daniele Tarsi.
Luca, the Ferretti man.

Yep, that Luca.

 

[The Hitch]

Poor Luca Scinto:

"What can I say, I'm stunned. I defended him more than any other rider because right from the start in Naples there were really bad rumours going around about him. I didn’t want to believe him and more than once I talked to him face to face. He said: 'It's only jealously, don’t worry but you can't keep asking me questions because they're offensive."

That must be in the handbook of Directeur Sportifs.
Luca, the man who brought in Daniele Tarsi.
Luca, the Ferretti man.

Yep, that Luca.

Should be read

"I asked Santa, if he understood that if he were to test positive I would have to disown him, say nasty things about him, and if neccesary, deliver him into the hands of brutish men, skillfull to destroy. He said he understood and we both agreed it was worth the risk in order to win the giro stage".

 

[Alpechraxler]

Why are people still using EPO anyway? Or are they using some new variant they think is undetectable?

I don't know if there is a test for Peginesatide. But this substance was withdrawn by the company because it was not safe.

 

[Escarabajo]

He won a grand tour, ergo he doped. Thats pretty much the logic here isn't it ?

Hitch did not ask why he dopes, he asked why he is going to get busted?

His links with Ferrari are long known in the Clinic. And it is to be assumed that ferrari is more careful than street boys playing with the hot sauce.

At the same time you hate to see someone bursting into the big scene without track record. Which is what make his case to stand out. Same would be if Froome got busted also. IMO.

 

[theyoungest]

Dopey and Santambrogio:

(via @cyclingfannl1)

 

[Catwhoorg]

Strange response.

It was you who said Nibali might test positive, not me or "the clinic" (whatever that is)

I have my doubts about him. Especially riding away on MTFs in the 3rd week. Admittedly some of the pre-race favorites had left by then due to illness, and it was a weakened field.

Then add in the Ferrari connection.


Whats the phrase ? 'Not normal' ...


(Not that a clean GT winner would be normal, by definition they must be so far above the typical human in terms of fitness and physiology)

In the absence of evidence though, he has no case to answer (bar that Ferrari thing)

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't know if there is a test for Peginesatide. But this substance was withdrawn by the company because it was not safe.

That hasn't stopped anyone before. I can't recall any of them now, but I could make a long list of clearly and overwhelmingly dangerous drugs used as PED's.

 

[Eshnar]

well this is shocking

Now, the real questions:
- Why did it take more than a month to the analysis? That's way too long for my tastes.
- Why did he get busted only in the Giro? Was he clean earlier this year? What changed?
- Was he clean in the past? Is his sudden improvement only caused by doping? (This is probably the most important question to me)

I have my opinion on these but I'd like to have the Clinic's opinion as well.

edit: btw, the title didn't spell Santambrogio correctly. Fixed.

 

[BYOP88]

Poor Luca Scinto:

"What can I say, I'm stunned. I defended him more than any other rider because right from the start in Naples there were really bad rumours going around about him. I didn’t want to believe him and more than once I talked to him face to face. He said: 'It's only jealously, don’t worry but you can't keep asking me questions because they're offensive."

That must be in the handbook of Directeur Sportifs.
Luca, the man who brought in Daniele Tarsi.
Luca, the Ferretti man.

Yep, that Luca.

Brailsford talked to Hayles face to face, so I'd guess it must be the opening chapter.

 

[BroDeal]

I thought this place was just a mad house? Pointing fingers at innocent riders?

Pointing out obvious doping performances only works for non-Anglo riders. Other performances, no matter how unlikely, are due to hard work and revolutionary training.

 

[theyoungest]

well this is shocking

Now, the real questions:
- Why did it take more than a month to the analysis? That's way too long for my tastes.
- Why did he get busted only in the Giro? Was he clean earlier this year? What changed?
- Was he clean in the past? Is his sudden improvement only caused by doping? (This is probably the most important question to me)

I have my opinion on these but I'd like to have the Clinic's opinion as well.

The analysis of Di Luca's sample also took a month. Apparently that's how long it takes. And yes, it's very long.

He got busted in the Giro because with microdosing the timespan during which you can get caught is much smaller. Basically if you're caught it's just a coincidence, bad luck.

He probably wasn't clean in the past, given the number of times his name has been mentioned already. He was even suspended by BMC for a while, wasn't he?

 

[webbie146]

I can't believe it, I though cycling was clean these days

 

[Cyivel]

well this is shocking

Now, the real questions:
- Why did it take more than a month to the analysis? That's way too long for my tastes.
- Why did he get busted only in the Giro? Was he clean earlier this year? What changed?
- Was he clean in the past? Is his sudden improvement only caused by doping? (This is probably the most important question to me)

I have my opinion on these but I'd like to have the Clinic's opinion as well.

edit: btw, the title didn't spell Santambrogio correctly. Fixed.

At T-A and Trentino, he didn't win a stage or lead so would have to have been one of those randomly tested, so maybe he wasn't tested? The fact he was one of those randomly tested on the first stage suggests somebody had taken note of his performances earlier in the year, or going by something JV said maybe they had been alerted to him.

Could be talking nonsense of course.

 

[gooner]

He was right on his game since San Luis and Tirreno-Adriatico this year. I am sure he was doping in previous years as he's linked in with the Mantova investigation as well but he must have upped the ante this year when you compare his current results with previous years.

I was just reading he was tested quite regularly in the first week of the Giro. Obviously targeted. The passport might have showed up something.

 

[Catwhoorg]

well this is shocking

- Why did it take more than a month to the analysis? That's way too long for my tastes.

The lab takes time to do the test, then has to report the result in ADAMS to the appropriate bodies, who then have to check for TUE's on file etc. A month is fairly typical timing outside of the Olympics.

- Why did he get busted only in the Giro? Was he clean earlier this year? What changed?

Most likely, he messed up his timing. So No he probably wasn't clean earlier in the year.

- Was he clean in the past? Is his sudden improvement only caused by doping? (This is probably the most important question to me)

No idea. Insufficient data to draw a conclusion

 

[Eshnar]

The analysis of Di Luca's sample also took a month. Apparently that's how long it takes. And yes, it's very long.

true... so the good ol' days when riders could get busted during a GT and DNF are over. Sad.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Roux spoke out against Santambrogio and Garzelli when Di Luca tested positive. He didn't get into legal trouble or anything as far as I know, it wasn't the end of the world for him, and now he's been vindicated.

Garzelli was only along for the ride in his final giro - denied to him last year by NetApp & Farnese Vini-Selle Italia.

Come on guys.

 

[BroDeal]

Santa looked in his bag of presents and found a lump of coal.

 

[zlev11]

wonder if there's going to be more Giro positives if it takes almost a month to get the test results back

 

[the asian]

Congrats hrotha.

Must be the end of Vini Fantini.

One month is a bit too long for my liking, ADA's should try to speed up the process, about two weeks would be ideal.

 

[classicomano]

Translation of a tweet from Ricco.

Daniel Friebe ‏@friebos 7m

Riccò: 'I'm reading about riders who I know for sure used to charge up like you wouldn't believe now coming over all moralistic. Please!'

 

[DirtyWorks]

The lab takes time to do the test, then has to report the result in ADAMS to the appropriate bodies, who then have to check for TUE's on file etc. A month is fairly typical timing outside of the Olympics.

- Why did he get busted only in the Giro? Was he clean earlier this year? What changed?

Most likely, he messed up his timing. So No he probably wasn't clean earlier in the year.

- Was he clean in the past? Is his sudden improvement only caused by doping? (This is probably the most important question to me)

No idea. Insufficient data to draw a conclusion

AMA/WADA is kind enough to post some nice documentation on the software system. http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/ADAMS/Release_notes/ADAMS 3 2 Release Notes.pdf