Sastre off the Saxo-Riis Program

[patswana]

The reason Sastre didn't do well this year is because he's tired. Now, after the tour is over, he says so himself. Looking at his quotes during the tour it is obvious that he was feeling tired the whole time.

Astana were obviously juiced to the eyeballs. Riis and Saxo Bank saw the writing on the wall. Presumably so did Wiggins and some of the Liquigas boys, especially Pellizotti. Sastre, Evans and Menchov made the mistake of trying to do it clean(er).

 

[yourwelcome]

Astana were obviously juiced to the eyeballs. Riis and Saxo Bank saw the writing on the wall. Presumably so did Wiggins and some of the Liquigas boys, especially Pellizotti. Sastre, Evans and Menchov made the mistake of trying to do it clean(er).

Not sure it's right, but it does sound plausible.

On the other hand, Evans had something unusual going on beyond just riding clean given that he had trouble keeping up with his own team, Menchov had terrible luck and after the Giro was tired already, and Sastre probably the same but minus the bad luck.

But still, if your explanation one day turns out to be true, I guess it won't be a huge surprise.

 

[Laszlo]

it would be one way to win the tour, by inheritance

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It's as good of presumption as any, as I see it.

 

[Roninho]

Sastre, Evans and Menchov made the mistake of trying to do it clean(er).

You do realize that historically most succesfull riders in the tour only have succes for a couple of years and then fade off? Apart from Indurain, Armstrong and Ullrich only 3 other riders finished top 3 overall in 3 tours since Lemond's last victory.

I wouldn't say those 3 stopped with dope just because they had a bad Tour, imo those things happen.

I would not be surprised if Menchov is/has been a doper (riding for spanish teams in the fuentes years, roommate of piepolie, vienna allegations), but his lacklustre performance in the tour is actually typicall for him, and i wouldn't necessarelly relate it to cleaner riding. He has been on and off in the tours in his career, and also seems mentally not strong enough to cope with problems (remember the rasmussen-saga, he was the only rabo to retire the race after that).

 

[Laszlo]

I wonder if there is a point where a body builds an immunity to all the pharmacuticals cheats employ ?

 

[eigenvalu2]

scott sutherland

what do folks think about scott getting in then out of cervelo? the reasons why seemed very secret. at the time i thought it was highly suspicious. but now i dont know which way its suspicious-any thoughts folks?

 

[Danilot]

I wonder if there is a point where a body builds an immunity to all the pharmacuticals cheats employ ?

Yes, you do get an immunity to doping products. For example, your immune system will eventually form antibodies against synthetic erythropoietin (and, if you dope for long enough, against your own EPO).

If you took EPO for very long periods of time, you would develop immunity against all forms of erythropoietin and you would depend on periodical blood transfusions to survive, since your body would be unable to create new blood cells.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I took the liberty to 'dig' into your posts, please explain this:

My thoughts exactly. It just isn't possible to peak consistently throughout an entire season. Just another reason why Contador's shortest ever cycling "grand slam" should be viewed with suspicion.

and compare this to Wiggo's season.

Double standard bust or have you come to the conclusion Contadope was clean after all? And I would like to note Contador had shown 'some' potential in the past in comparison to good old Wiggins.

 

[sniper]

Luttenberger, CSC in 2003 and 2004, as of today known as a blooddoper.
http://nos.nl/artikel/457976-weer-belastende-verklaring-rabobank.html
Anyone still believes in the Sastre miracle?

Btw, does anyone know how fast (VO2 max and all that) Sastre was in 2008 compared to Wiggins 2009/2012?
Just curious if the comparison does or does not confirm the "it's so much slower now" claim.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Anyone still believes in the Sastre miracle?

yes. I believe.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Anyone still believes in the Sastre miracle?

I would be very surprised if Sastre was clean when he won the TdF.

 

[Gregga]

I would be very surprised if Sastre was clean when he won the TdF.

IMO Sastre had a BB the day before alpe d'Huez in 2008.
He knew he would be strong for the climb, timed perfectly his attack in order to create the largest possible gap and trap the Schlecks.
According to cyclismag.com (Portoleau's power guesstimates), he did 6.4w/kg for 22', 6.2 w/kg for the whole climb. Less than 40', close to Landis'/Mayo/Klöden times for example, clearly not possible without oxygen booster.
http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=4386

 

[Dazed and Confused]

IMO Sastre had a BB the day before alpe d'Huez in 2008.
He knew he would be strong for the climb, timed perfectly his attack in order to create the largest possible gap and trap the Schlecks.
According to cyclismag.com (Portoleau's power guesstimates), he did 6.4w/kg for 22', 6.2 w/kg for the whole climb. Less than 40', close to Landis'/Mayo/Klöden times for example, clearly not possible without oxygen booster.
http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=4386

poor little Sastre with innocent deer like eyes and a sad face.

 

[maltiv]

IMO Sastre had a BB the day before alpe d'Huez in 2008.
He knew he would be strong for the climb, timed perfectly his attack in order to create the largest possible gap and trap the Schlecks.
According to cyclismag.com (Portoleau's power guesstimates), he did 6.4w/kg for 22', 6.2 w/kg for the whole climb. Less than 40', close to Landis'/Mayo/Klöden times for example, clearly not possible without oxygen booster.
http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=4386

Yet that's only a minute or so faster than Moncoutie rode at his best (with far more to fight for!). So judging by Moncoutie's time, I'd say that the time Sastre posted is certainly within the realms of possibilities for an extraordinary talented clean climber.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Yet that's only a minute or so faster than Moncoutie rode at his best (with far more to fight for!). So judging by Moncoutie's time, I'd say that the time Sastre posted is certainly within the realms of possibilities for an extraordinary talented clean climber.

Indeed, tiny climber with a solid TT engine in the last week of the TdF 2008 parcours:

1. CANCELLARA Fabian CSC 1h04'11" 80
2. KIRCHEN Kim THR 40" 50
3. VANDE VELDE Christian TSL 44" 35
4. MILLAR David TSL 01'16" 25
5. MENCHOV Denis RAB 01'34" 15
6. EVANS Cadel SIL 01'44" 10
7. LANG Sebastian GST 01'58" 5
8. HINCAPIE George THR 02'07" 3
9. LÖFKVIST Thomas THR 02'08" 2
10. SASTRE CANDIL Carlos CSC 02'13"

53km is just the ideal distance for Sastre. Lost about 30s or so to the grinder himself, Mr Evans.

Mind you another clean rider Vande Velde came 4th the year (overall).

 

[ferryman]

Indeed, tiny climber with a solid TT engine in the last week of the TdF 2008 parcours:

1. CANCELLARA Fabian CSC 1h04'11" 80
2. KIRCHEN Kim THR 40" 50
3. VANDE VELDE Christian TSL 44" 35
4. MILLAR David TSL 01'16" 25
5. MENCHOV Denis RAB 01'34" 15
6. EVANS Cadel SIL 01'44" 10
7. LANG Sebastian GST 01'58" 5
8. HINCAPIE George THR 02'07" 3
9. LÖFKVIST Thomas THR 02'08" 2
10. SASTRE CANDIL Carlos CSC 02'13"

53km is just the ideal distance for Sastre. Lost about 30s or so to the grinder himself, Mr Evans.

Mind you another clean rider Vande Velde came 4th the year (overall).

You do know, you really don't have to keep this up now that your pals have been banned? Or is that your job meantime?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

You do know, you really don't have to keep this up now that your pals have been banned? Or is that your job meantime?

what are you talking about?

edit: too many yous

 

[Ferminal]

Yet that's only a minute or so faster than Moncoutie rode at his best (with far more to fight for!). So judging by Moncoutie's time, I'd say that the time Sastre posted is certainly within the realms of possibilities for an extraordinary talented clean climber.

More than 2% faster, having ridden 170km more? In the 3rd week of a GT having ridden the whole race in a GC scenario vs stage hunter.

 

[The Hitch]

Yet that's only a minute or so faster than Moncoutie rode at his best (with far more to fight for!). So judging by Moncoutie's time, I'd say that the time Sastre posted is certainly within the realms of possibilities for an extraordinary talented clean climber.

You tried this before and it was pointed out to you that Moncouties time was a
15k tt and he had spent the previous day in the autobus. Sastre meanwhile did it on a 200k mega mountain stage and he spent the previous day also fighting it out on a major mountain stage.

Rarely does the saying - broken record, apply as well as here.

 

[movingtarget]

Levi L. is a good example of that (overcooked before he showed up at Giro, from a long season).

Am also amazed sometimes how the Dauphine is NOT a good indicator of subsequent Tour form (e.g. Evans this year). Peaking is tricky.

Evans usually does well in the Dauphine. Four podiums and a fourth ? Dauphine was also a good indicator years ago but it still finishes a long time before the third week of the Tour. So there is still time to ride into form although when Evans and Wiggins won the Tour they both won good races before the tour and looked good from day one of their subsequent Tour victories so they were definitely in form at the start of the Tour and still strong in the third week. Some riders peak too early and suffer badly in the third week but you also have to be lucky with illness and injuries and last year Evans went into the race with sinus issues and a bug during the race and never recovered post race going into the late season races. I think there is an element of luck re peaking at the right time. Some riders claim to have a perfect build up and just never put it together on the road. Others deny a good build up and perform well.