Sastre

[indurain666]

Sastre is a great champion. He reached his peak at age 34 winning the Tour, against a very competitive field:

1 Carlos Sastre (ESP)Sastre was awarded the final yellow jersey as general classification winner Team CSC Saxo Bank 87h 52' 52"
2 Cadel Evans (AUS) Silence-Lotto + 58"
3 None[2]
4 Denis Menchov (RUS) Rabobank + 2' 10"
5 Christian Vandevelde (USA) Garmin-Chipotle-H30 + 3' 05"
6 Fränk Schleck (LUX) Team CSC Saxo Bank + 4' 28"
7 Samuel Sánchez (ESP) Euskaltel-Euskadi + 6' 25"
8 Kim Kirchen (LUX) Team Columbia + 6' 55"
9 Alejandro Valverde (ESP) Caisse d'Epargne + 7' 12"
10 Tadej Valjavec (SLO) Ag2r-La Mondiale + 9' 05"

I know that if AC would have been there it would have been a different story...but enough with the "if".

I do agree that the guy complains way too much. But heck he had a fantastic Giro this year!

Carlos Sastre, a great champion.

 

[Anonymous]

if he is overated what does that make leipheimer, kloden, evans,sanchez, wiggins,nibali etc who have never won a grand tour

overrated, domestique, unlucky/bad teams, wrong teams, lucky, unlucky/teams with too many leaders

 

[The Hitch]

But heck he had a fantastic Giro this year!

???

 

[the3verB]

Sastre is a great champion. He reached his peak at age 34 winning the Tour, against a very competitive field:

yes, Sastre is champion and he deserved is Tour win, but the field in '08 was maybe the weakest ever (or of the 20 last years): No contador, leipheiemr, kloden, basso, etc.

 

[hrotha]

yes, Sastre is champion and he deserved is Tour win, but the field in '08 was maybe the weakest ever (or of the 20 last years): No contador, leipheiemr, kloden, basso, etc.

Even if you take away that TdF win (and I don't know why you'd do that), Sastre still has an impressive GT record.

 

[boardhanger]

yes, Sastre is champion and he deserved is Tour win, but the field in '08 was maybe the weakest ever (or of the 20 last years): No contador, leipheiemr, kloden, basso, etc.

..........and why were they not there mmmmh????

 

[therealtimshady]

i dont make evans all that unlucky, maybe in last years vuelta but he deservedly lost the tour due to negativity in 2008 (i admit the crashes didnt help, but it was his to lose and he did), and was beaten by better competitors in this years giro. while he has had poor team support at lotto (not his fault) his decision to join a very poor BMC team is surprising

 

[icefire]

Even if you take away that TdF win (and I don't know why you'd do that), Sastre still has an impressive GT record.

...hampered by the years he spent riding to help others until 2006 when he was 31

 

[Angliru]

yes, Sastre is champion and he deserved is Tour win, but the field in '08 was maybe the weakest ever (or of the 20 last years): No contador, leipheiemr, kloden, basso, etc.

I don't agree that 2008 was even close to being the weakest ever or of the last 20 years and regardless of one's opinion, Sastre could only race against who was there. The way in which he snatched the leader's jersey and where he did it alone make him worthy of respect. As stated his record in the grand tours only adds to his standing as one of the best grand tour riders of his generation.

As far as the rep for whining, I'll speak specifically on the disrespect shown him at the 2009 Tour of which he spoke his mind. He only verbalized what many of us here were posting about the LA overload, which coming from Sastre was quite refreshing compared to the brown-nosing that was coming from most of the other Tour riders.

 

[The Hitch]

Another point to make about the "Sastre only won tour 08 because field was weak point" is that he came 3rd in the 08 vuelta a month later. Who beat him there? - Contador and Leipheimer of Astana, both of whom peaked for the Vuelta because they had not been invited to the Tour in July. I myself doubt either would have done the Vuelta if they had done the Tour. So if you want to take away his tdf 08 (where he did beat the 2nd place from 07 so probs would have been on the podium at least anyway) then he still gets a gt win - the vuelta that year.

 

[movingtarget]

i dont make evans all that unlucky, maybe in last years vuelta but he deservedly lost the tour due to negativity in 2008 (i admit the crashes didnt help, but it was his to lose and he did), and was beaten by better competitors in this years giro. while he has had poor team support at lotto (not his fault) his decision to join a very poor BMC team is surprising

In 2007 there were no excuses. Evans left a gap he could have closed and watched his Tour de France disappear up the road. Lost a handful of seconds but enough to lose the Tour. In 2008 he was looking very good but an Euskadel (big surprise) rider fell in front of him. The crash was a bad one as they were going downhill. He went over the handlebars, hurt his shoulder and ribs, his helmet was almost split in two and when he got up he did not know where he was. He never full recovered and rode a mediocre final time trial. To me, the fall cost him the race, considering the margin. As for the Vuelta, the puncture obviously cost him but it is hard to say whether the time lost, cost him the overall. I think he left Silence just to get out of what had been a frustrating few years. He bought out the final year of his contract. BMC will be stronger next year but still nowhere near the strength of Sunguard, Liquigas or Rabobank. Timing is everything and if Evans was coming off contract now, with all of the team changes, especially team leaders, it would have put him in an ideal position with Katusha, Astana and others yet to finalise their rosters. Oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[Ryaguas]

In 2007 there were no excuses. Evans left a gap he could have closed and watched his Tour de France disappear up the road. Lost a handful of seconds but enough to lose the Tour. In 2008 he was looking very good but an Euskadel (big surprise) rider fell in front of him. The crash was a bad one as they were going downhill. He went over the handlebars, hurt his shoulder and ribs, his helmet was almost split in two and when he got up he did not know where he was. He never full recovered and rode a mediocre final time trial. To me, the fall cost him the race, considering the margin. As for the Vuelta, the puncture obviously cost him but it is hard to say whether the time lost, cost him the overall. I think he left Silence just to get out of what had been a frustrating few years. He bought out the final year of his contract. BMC will be stronger next year but still nowhere near the strength of Sunguard, Liquigas or Rabobank. Timing is everything and if Evans was coming off contract now, with all of the team changes, especially team leaders, it would have put him in an ideal position with Katusha, Astana and others yet to finalise their rosters. Oh well, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

This year was the opportunity of Evans to target a team like Astana... They lost big climbers but they still have Tiralongo and Kiserlovski is a new sign, also we can expect a step forward from Dyachenko or Iglimskiy...

 

[indurain666]

???

Sorry...2009 that is,

 

[movingtarget]

This year was the opportunity of Evans to target a team like Astana... They lost big climbers but they still have Tiralongo and Kiserlovski is a new sign, also we can expect a step forward from Dyachenko or Iglimskiy...

I agree. Kreuziger as well. Astana is still a strong team and the arrival of the two young talents, Kiserlovski and Kreuziger is a positive move for them. Hopefully BMC will pick up some quality riders for Evans. I think they have already signed Maxime Monfort who should be a decent addition to the team. But they need more climbers.

 

[Ryaguas]

I agree. Kreuziger as well. Astana is still a strong team and the arrival of the two young talents, Kiserlovski and Kreuziger is a positive move for them. Hopefully BMC will pick up some quality riders for Evans. I think they have already signed Maxime Monfort who should be a decent addition to the team. But they need more climbers.

They pick Moinard from Cofidis but I haven't heard other names... Moinard is a very good climber and they still have Morabito but as you said... They need more climbers...

 

[Francois the Postman]

Not just overrated, but most overrated?

We're talking about the guy with one of the most impressive and consistent GT records of the last years, right? Every time I write that you can't ride several GTs in a row and expect a top placement in all, I feel an almost contractual obligation to "facts in plain view", to add "well, not unless your first name is Carlos".

Given the fawning over lesser and younger riders that is on daily display here, and the general unawareness of Sastre's career accomplishments amongst the experts that make up the CN forum, I'd say the claim that he doesn't get his dues is reasonably spot on, if anything.

He's past his best by now, but he remains a rider I respect tremendously. And I would be amazed if he didn't add a couple more entries to his palmares in 2011, if not sooner.

He didn't grab my attention by making the sort of daft comments that Thor just made either. Solid and attractive racing, great two fingers up attitude to anything that claims to be smarter but doesn't get him (*). He doesn't exactly go around with a big head, loud mouth, or feels the urge to **** over accomplishments by other riders either.

People who still have a lot to prove before they get anywhere near tallying up the CV of those they criticize, and criticized wrongly to boot, better keep realizing consistent top spots then. [If he did say those things:] Good to see Thor nailing down the bench-mark by which we can judge his future accomplishments. Better start entering some more GTs, and keep at it. I'm looking forward to his Vuelta results already.

BTW, is it true that grandad Cuesta is starting the Vuelta with bib #1?

(*) Riis: if you don't keep a steady pace up this hill, we will never [get the data to] know what works better.
Sastre: I'll know.

 

[icefire]

BTW, is it true that grandad Cuesta is starting the Vuelta with bib #1?

http://www.marca.com/2010/08/12/ciclismo/1281603222.html

It's been published by many more sources. Just google 'vuelta 2010 iñigo cuesta'

 

[Berzin]

In the documentary "Overcoming", Sastre seemed like a gigantic pain in the rear.

And I don't believe it was from the language barrier of he not speaking the best English in the world. Sastre truly seemed stubborn and difficult to work with.

Yes, he has a great palmares in grand tours-but it is frustrating watching someone like him ride well, but never well enough. Great climber, but never having that killer blow in him except that one time he attacked to take the Tour.

Riding the Giro AND the Tour in the same year and not getting a result in either race. That to me is just madness in a rider with so much experience.

This is what I think frustrates some people about Sastre. He can be a great rider and not be above a bit of criticism.

 

[Francois the Postman]

In the documentary "Overcoming", Sastre seemed like a gigantic pain in the rear.

And I don't believe it was from the language barrier of he not speaking the best English in the world. Sastre truly seemed stubborn and difficult to work with.

I judged it as a typical clash of cultures. With Riis and Sastre both pretty dogmatic and internally comfortable with their approach to things. I'm sure that your starting point will make someone like Sastre a dream rider or a pain in the ****. I suspect the same goes for Riis, dream DS or a pain in the ****.

I am so curious how Contador will fare with Riis, as I can see some traits of Sastre in Contador too. I think both are quite emotive riders.

 

[Berzin]

I judged it as a typical clash of cultures.

No. I speak both English and Spanish fluently. Sastre came across as difficult in "Overcoming" because that's exactly what he's like.

Sometimes what you see is just that. I understand you making excuses for him if you're a big fan (and I like him too as a rider) but the conflicts he had with Riis all through the documentary spoke of a rider who was extremely hard-headed and difficult to work with.

 

[Francois the Postman]

No. I speak both English and Spanish fluently. Sastre came across as difficult in "Overcoming" because that's exactly what he's like.

Sometimes what you see is just that. I understand you making excuses for him if you're a big fan (and I like him too as a rider) but the conflicts he had with Riis all through the documentary spoke of a rider who was extremely hard-headed and difficult to work with.

Speaking both languages fluently doesn't make you right. I said "I judged" and that is as far as my claim goes. And I have my reasons too. We judge differently then, but one of us claims he can tell the truth as it is, based on snippets and documentary editing. I bow humbly out of that one.

I do respect him, I like the guy, I am certainly no fanboy. I don't like him so much I think he is above criticism. But the OP's "most overrated". That's a daft claim.

And in case you missed it, I already said Sastre was set in his ways. Both of them are very set in their ways. Riis is no walk in the park either. The two together is asking for friction.

The documentary showed a young Sastre in several ways. It showed him dealing with a team, authority, technology, training methods, family, friendship. The documentary also showed a young rider dealing with the sudden grief that comes with losing a loyal friend and role model.

The one that looked his weight worth in gold was the masseur, IMO. Certain people, and I suspect Sastre amongst them, are more likely to bounce off folk like that who "get" what matters more/most to them, than people who confront them with data that show something should work better for them.

I think the masseur also hit the jackpot when he pointed out that what Riis was preaching for others was something he wasn't applying to himself. And making everyone in the team less effective as a result.

A great documentary btw, I'm sure you agree.

 

[Cimber]

A really really great interview with Sastre:

http://rouleur.cc/journal/riders/carlos-sastre