How To Say my name! Pronunciation thread

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Shouldn't this topic just get merged with the JV topic? It's a valid concern to have riders' names pronounced correctly, but hardly needs a dedicated topic per rider individually. On the other hand this way it will eventually sink to the bottom of the forum list. So in the long run it's probably best to merge it as well. I think -pulling a number out of my ass- 95% of names get pronounced incorrectly. If we start topics for each of them, that would hardly be constructive. Or make this a general "name pronunciation" topic for all riders? (Then again, didn't a topic like that already exist?)

@Red Rick @King Boonen
 
Don't worry... you don't need to teach me everything! Just... you know, stuff related to that particular word.
OK. First things first. To teach the world and based on our experience. In USA you need no less then Dončić. If you don't have that most sport commentators won't care and will pronounce your name in a way you will likely ask them who is that? As you have never heard of that name before. If you on the contrary do have that then you can expect for Shaquille O'Neal to learn Slovenian. In Europe the situation is rather the same. If you don't have Roglič and Pogačar. In that case Kirby won't care. If you have them then (semi) č should dominate Eurosport.

As for the saying. Imagine you would say Pogačar won TDF 2020. A Slovenian would emerge and say something in the lines of but if (če) Roglič wouldn't have had neatly tucked hair in the helmet, he would have won that race. Now you could start to dispute the claim altogether with some counterargument. Instead best to just say:

Če čebula nebi imela če, bi bila le bula.

And that would be that. I don't know if there is a similar saying in English, about the if word, and translation 1:1 doesn't make much sense. Still to get the sense of it:

If the onion would not be on, then it would be ion.

Now as for how to pronounce č. Lets say you meet one member of the Slovenian duo (or both). Obviously first thing you do is to take your phone out and do a selfie. Both looking into camera and saying cheese.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunTQm-IV9U


Now that first sound that comes out of your mouth Ch without the eese. That is very close to saying č in Slovenian. Or cha-cha-cha or chocolate ...
 
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OK. First things first. To teach the world and based on our experience. In USA you need no less then Dončić. If you don't have that most sport commentators won't care and will pronounce your name in a way you will likely ask them who is that? As you have never heard of that name before. If you on the contrary do have that then you can expect for Shaquille O'Neal to learn Slovenian. In Europe the situation is rather the same. If you don't have Roglič and Pogačar. In that case Kirby won't care. If you have them then (semi) č should dominate Eurosport.

As for the saying. Imagine you would say Pogačar won TDF 2020. A Slovenian would emerge and say something in the lines of but if (če) Roglič wouldn't have had neatly tucked hair in the helmet, he would have won that race. Now you could start to dispute the claim altogether with some counterargument. Instead best to just say:

Če čebula nebi imela če, bi bila le bula.

And that would be that. I don't know if there is a similar saying in English, about the if word, and translation 1:1 doesn't make much sense. Still to get the sense of it:

If the onion would not be on, then it would be ion.

Now as for how to pronounce č. Lets say you meet one member of the Slovenian duo (or both). Obviously first thing you do is to take your phone out and do a selfie. Both looking into camera and saying cheese.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunTQm-IV9U


Now that first sound that comes out of your mouth Ch without the eese. That is very close to saying č in Slovenian. Or cha-cha-cha or chocolate ...
So you're saying it's not Poker Car?
 
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OK. First things first. To teach the world and based on our experience. In USA you need no less then Dončić. If you don't have that most sport commentators won't care and will pronounce your name in a way you will likely ask them who is that? As you have never heard of that name before. If you on the contrary do have that then you can expect for Shaquille O'Neal to learn Slovenian. In Europe the situation is rather the same. If you don't have Roglič and Pogačar. In that case Kirby won't care. If you have them then (semi) č should dominate Eurosport.

As for the saying. Imagine you would say Pogačar won TDF 2020. A Slovenian would emerge and say something in the lines of but if (če) Roglič wouldn't have had neatly tucked hair in the helmet, he would have won that race. Now you could start to dispute the claim altogether with some counterargument. Instead best to just say:

Če čebula nebi imela če, bi bila le bula.

And that would be that. I don't know if there is a similar saying in English, about the if word, and translation 1:1 doesn't make much sense. Still to get the sense of it:

If the onion would not be on, then it would be ion.

Now as for how to pronounce č. Lets say you meet one member of the Slovenian duo (or both). Obviously first thing you do is to take your phone out and do a selfie. Both looking into camera and saying cheese.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zunTQm-IV9U


Now that first sound that comes out of your mouth Ch without the eese. That is very close to saying č in Slovenian. Or cha-cha-cha or chocolate ...
Don't get carried away.
Even Ljudevit Gaj knew the path to Slovenian leads over Serbian.
 
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I think it's totally normal that people don't pronounce names correctly. However, I'm annoyed if commentators don't make the slightest effort not to butcher names that are important in the sport.
While I agree with your take, I also think narrators should try to make the name recognizable to the audience.

Certain pronuntiations are extremely unnatural for some languages, and narrators should try to keep some balance between butchering the name and making a pronuntiation too confusing for the listeners.
 
While I agree with your take, I also think narrators should try to make the name recognizable to the audience.

Certain pronuntiations are extremely unnatural for some languages, and narrators should try to keep some balance between butchering the name and making a pronuntiation too confusing for the listeners.
Yeah, sure, there's a point where it starts to get unnatural. Actually when commentators here in Germany say "Vingeguard" I'm okay with it, I know it's wrong, but I'm used to Isengard and Midgard, so it sounds normal to me...
I was thinking of names like Károly, Nguyen, or Doğan... I wouldn't pronounce them right by intuition, but when I've heard the correct pronounciation once, I can do it at least tolerably, and that doesn't make it sound forced or unrecognizable. If I started to pronounce Evgeni(a) in a Russian way that would irritate people because it's a very common name that we are used to pronouncing it "our" way. So I would try to address the person correctly, but commentating I would probably use the usual western pronounciation.
 
I was thinking of names like Károly, Nguyen, or Doğan... I wouldn't pronounce them right by intuition, but when I've heard the correct pronounciation once, I can do it at least tolerably, and that doesn't make it sound forced or unrecognizable.
Reminds me of a broadcast of Tour de Brunei on ESPN Asia early last decade. The native English-speaking announcer kept referring to a rider named "En-GOO-yin." I had no clue who he was talking about until the end of the broadcast when a graphic listing a rider with last name Nguyen popped up on the screen.
 
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Jan 17, 2022
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I thought we could gather pronunciations of rider's names - and maybe also place's names. (First of all it would help me if I ever make that commentary try and secondly) there are often questions about it, as last seen in the Rob Hatch thread. We have members from many different countries with many languages here, so... you're the experts. I imagined a list with names that we find difficult or often mistreated, in either phonetic spelling (IPA) or with an explanation like "Hitch is rhyming with witch".

I am going to start with a slightly random list of names that I would think are difficult and you can explain them or add other names that you know well about or would like to get right. You can also tell us about the accentuation of a certain name which bothers you.

Jakob Fuglsang
Jonas Vingegaard
Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig
Kasper Asgreen
Søren Kragh Andersen
Mikkel Bjerg
Michael Mørkøv

Wout Poels
Jasper Stuyven
Oliver Naesen
Tim Merlier
Jolien d'Hoore
Ide Schelling
Nils Eeekhoff
Gijs van Leemreize
Steven Kruijswijk
Christine Majerus
Cian Uijtdebroeks

Giacomo Nizzolo
Vincenzo Nibali

Warren Barguil
Alexis Vuillermoz
Anthony Turgis
Benoît Cosnefroy
Clément Champoussin

Tao Geoghegan Hart
Chloe Dygert
Matteo Jorgenson
Elizabeth Deignan

Mihkel Räim

Marc Hirschi - like English here-she
Felix Großschartner
Emanuel Buchmann - Buch: [buːx]
Maximilian Schachmann - Schach: [ʃa⁠x]

Primož Roglič
Matej Mohorič
Luka Mezgec

Kamil Małecki
Katarzyna Niewiadoma
Stanisław Aniołkowski

Julen Amezqueta
Sergio Higuita
Jhojan García

Alexandr Riabushenko

Amaro Antunes
João Almeida

Markus Hoelgaard

Toms Skujiņš

Peter Sagan

Zdeněk Štybar

I can update the list sometimes or you can copy and update. :)
I know Polish is consistent, but damn those 'włwczswł' clusters scare the hell out of me.
Most common people mispronounce my name. When individuals got it wrong, it was usually because they were emulating Hamelton in which case a gentle correction was usually enough to bring them back on track.
 
I was thinking of names like Károly, Nguyen, or Doğan... I wouldn't pronounce them right by intuition, but when I've heard the correct pronounciation once, I can do it at least tolerably
But are you saying Nguyên or Nguyễn? They're both surnames, but pronounced differently, and that's just in Hanoi. Spoken in an HCMC accent, it sounds like a different word entirely.
 
Sorry if I missed it but has anyone heard how Phil Liggett pronounces Vingegaard? I've just listened to this video several times over but it doesn't help this English speaker :astonished:. Maybe a similar video posted by someone whose natural tongue is English?

How To Pronounce Jonas Vingegaard - YouTube

But I agree with the comments above, as long as narrators try to make the name recognizable to the audience we should not get too hung up about it. Liggett has butchered names for decades.
 
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But are you saying Nguyên or Nguyễn? They're both surnames, but pronounced differently, and that's just in Hanoi. Spoken in an HCMC accent, it sounds like a different word entirely.
I mean I speak OK Vietnamese but nowhere near perfect and people understand me when I'm in Vietnam. No one is expecting broadcasters to get the tones right but there's a difference between between being close enough to being understood and giving the name three syllables with a hard "G," which I've heard done before.
 
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