Scarponi up to his old tricks?

[blackcat]

So who is the EPO provider in the photo?

one of the fat guys,

but the evil doc is in the black t with the sunnies.

 

[Big GMaC]

one of the fat guys,

but the evil doc is in the black t with the sunnies.

Ferrari or Fuentes? or another one?

 

[blackcat]

that is Ferrari's group. With Ferrari himself. In the black.

 

[Big GMaC]

that is Ferrari's group. With Ferrari himself. In the black.

Thanks for sorting that out for me. Now I understnad this:

Why on earth if you were a pro would allow yourself to be in that photo?

 

[python]

Thanks for sorting that out for me. Now I understnad this:

what exactly do you understand ? that you are looking at the evidence of doping as was alluded to and the dope providers in flash as was said ?

 

[blackcat]

what exactly do you understand ? that you are looking at the evidence of doping as was alluded to and the dope providers in flash as was said ?

think he did not realise this was a Ferrari camp with top pros for lactate testing.

 

[luckyboy]

no, that is Patrick Sinkewitz

Far left, Il Falco, Paolo Savoldelli, Discovery Channel

Middle, hand up, Tom Danielson, Discovery Channel

Enrico Gasparotto, Liquigas

anonymous fat guys.

Dont know the Quickstep guy off-hand, without a close up and a google search.

I reckon that QST guy might be Moreni. Head/mouth shape looks similar, and he was with them in 05.

 

[Big GMaC]

think he did not realise this was a Ferrari camp with top pros for lactate testing.

Yeah this bit. I don't know what Ferrari looks like, so I wasn't sure what I was looking at

 

[BikeCentric]

Back on topic: the reason I'm calling Scarponi out is not just because of the performance which is itself suspect.

Consider it from this angle: has anyone ever seen a single example of a cyclist who has been busted for doping and come back from his ban "clean" and actually riding as good or better than he was when he was juicing? Because Scarponi on this ride is as good as he's ever been while on the gear.

The only athlete I can think of that came back from a ban and competed on the same level was Virenque, and that was pre EPO test and there is no doubt in my mind he was still on EPO when he came back.

 

[pmcg76]

Back on topic: the reason I'm calling Scarponi out is not just because of the performance which is itself suspect.

Consider it from this angle: has anyone ever seen a single example of a cyclist who has been busted for doping and come back from his ban "clean" and actually riding as good or better than he was when he was juicing? Because Scarponi on this ride is as good as he's ever been while on the gear.

The only athlete I can think of that came back from a ban and competed on the same level was Virenque, and that was pre EPO test and there is no doubt in my mind he was still on EPO when he came back.

I wouldnt say Vienque was clean after his return but he was slightly lower than his previous level, his TTs went to **** and he never came near a podium finish at the Tour again.

I agree with you on Scarponi however, he is perfroming better than ever. I dont think he ever won anything at the level of T-A before he admitted guilt.

 

[Krap Police]

I wouldnt say Vienque was clean after his return but he was slightly lower than his previous level, his TTs went to **** and he never came near a podium finish at the Tour again.

I agree with you on Scarponi however, he is perfroming better than ever. I dont think he ever won anything at the level of T-A before he admitted guilt.

Oh, Skarp is smoking the blood big time.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Back on topic: the reason I'm calling Scarponi out is not just because of the performance which is itself suspect.

Consider it from this angle: has anyone ever seen a single example of a cyclist who has been busted for doping and come back from his ban "clean" and actually riding as good or better than he was when he was juicing? Because Scarponi on this ride is as good as he's ever been while on the gear.

The only athlete I can think of that came back from a ban and competed on the same level was Virenque, and that was pre EPO test and there is no doubt in my mind he was still on EPO when he came back.

Levi - positive in 1996 for the "D" version of a cold medicine.

Lennie Kristensen - mtb racer, triple dope positive, each time came back stronger.

Casagrande positive and banned in 98, came back stronger.

You reference Virenque but Moreau came back and had better results.

Garzelli was pos in 2002, and came back to the same level.


Well, those are several examples of riders coming back to or near the same level, though I make no claim as to cleanliness.

Millar?

 

[luckyboy]

You reference Virenque but Moreau came back and had better results.

Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%

FDREU: when in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001


I choose to blindly believe this about Moreau. I like him

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%

FDREU: when in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001


I choose to blindly believe this about Moreau. I like him

Yet in 1998 he confessed to the French Federation as to his participation in the team "program".

Believe what you like but I will take Moreau's word for it if he is going to confess to the activity. You can still like him, just know the reasons. I always enjoyed watching the big guy race.

Edit to add link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Moreau

 

[blackcat]

Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds - Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%

FDREU: when in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: so, that's when you start thinking... hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%--- yeah moreau in 2000-2001


I choose to blindly believe this about Moreau. I like him

no, Moreau was hot in 2007. Who was the strongest in the first 10 days in the Tour? CM

 

[craig1985]

no, Moreau was hot in 2007. Who was the strongest in the first 10 days in the Tour? CM

And then he went backwards after that.

 

[Big GMaC]

And then he went backwards after that.

Quite. Just because he was strong early doesn't mean he was hot BC, he went backwards in the way you would expect a clean rider to go against a fully charging field of the Chicken, Contra, (Evans), Leipheimer etc.

 

[python]

I compared the performances of one of his riders at Ag2r, Christophe Moreau in the Dauphin&#233]Moreau[/B] on the Col du Télégraphe in the Dauphiné, the stage where he took the maillot jaune. For an example, a VAM of 1750 metres per hour is very fast

How should we interpret the performance of Moreau, leader of Mr. Lavenu's team, knowing he is not a climbing specialist and is 36 years old?

show me anyone, a-n-y-o-n-e, who knows better than bruyneel what a dope can do to a 36 or even a certain 38 yo rider.

 

[blackcat]

Quite. Just because he was strong early doesn't mean he was hot BC, he went backwards in the way you would expect a clean rider to go against a fully charging field of the Chicken, Contra, (Evans), Leipheimer etc.

he came off winning the Dauphine. Long time to be at peak form. He was hot. There was a rumour of him going positive.

 

[Big GMaC]

he came off winning the Dauphine. Long time to be at peak form. He was hot. There was a rumour of him going positive.

Was he one of the riders who was warned for having 'blood levels that were a risk to his health' or something like that before the Tour?

 

[Ferminal]

And then he went backwards after that.

He crashed on a flat day and couldn't get back on - I think that was the day before the time trial which he lost 5-10minutes on.

 

[blackcat]

Was he one of the riders who was warned for having 'blood levels that were a risk to his health' or something like that before the Tour?

Now you jog the memory, he may have been. Not sure tho', dont quote.

But Moreau looked the strongest on that first climb where Rasmussen was in the "free" breakaway. Contador did have great acceleration, but I dont think superior to Moreau.

 

[luckyboy]

Yet in 1998 he confessed to the French Federation as to his participation in the team "program".

Believe what you like but I will take Moreau's word for it if he is going to confess to the activity. You can still like him, just know the reasons. I always enjoyed watching the big guy race.

Edit to add link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christophe_Moreau

2000 is a different year to 1998.


Also, tongue-in-cheek..

 

[Frosty]

I think there were rumours after Moreau quit on the 7th stage in 2008 but nothing was said and unless someone had an obvious visible injury then any big or biggish name dropping out would at least raise eyebrows.

 

[Le breton]

Moreau, Christophe not Jeanne

I think there were rumours after Moreau quit on the 7th stage in 2008 but nothing was said and unless someone had an obvious visible injury then any big or biggish name dropping out would at least raise eyebrows.

Moreau is probably a likeable guy but I don't think he is very bright (although of course smarter than Virenque) and I would have a very hard time suspecting him of being clean in his post-98 cycling career.
His 7th place in the 2007 TdF (with teammate Dessel 8th was it?) seemed too good to be true. Then, the way he pulled out of the Tour in 2008 certainly seemed to indicate that he had been warned about his forthcoming doom.

I had been expecting him to be in deep trouble, but surprisingly in the following weeks there was never any news of a positive test.