Schleck doesn't want to win Tour through a possible Contador disqualification

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Jan 5, 2010
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Call me a cynic, but more and more I am questioning how clean the peloton really is in 2010. Maybe what we are seeing is simply better pharmacology and masking. It’s sad, but I’m becoming increasingly suspicious that the top 5 on the GC in any stage race, let alone the Tour, is doing it on diet, training and strategy alone. Anyone agree?
 
Sep 18, 2010
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hrotha said:
If he were clean, you'd think Andy would be angry because Contador stole that joy from him.
Maybe he is angry?

There's often a difference between what someone says publicly and what they're saying privately. And there's often good reasons for this.

If Schleck came out and called Contador a cheater, then what?

What if Contador is then cleared?

And if Contador's banned, as Galaxy1 said, there's always going to be some amount of doubt.

Clean or not, the smart thing would be for Schleck to say the sort of things he's been saying.

Steve
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Dalakhani said:
Maybe he is angry?

There's often a difference between what someone says publicly and what they're saying privately. And there's often good reasons for this.

If Schleck came out and called Contador a cheater, then what?

What if Contador is then cleared?

And if Contador's banned, as Galaxy1 said, there's always going to be some amount of doubt.

Clean or not, the smart thing would be for Schleck to say the sort of things he's been saying.

Steve
Cycling and sports are political. He says exactly what he needs to say. I believe as a sportsman he would like to win in a proper manner.
Calling Contador a cheat(even if Andy felt that) would not serve the sport.
 
Nov 7, 2010
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The Hitch said:
Of course Andy Schleck isnt clean. You dont need to tell me. Im one of these cynical types who believes that all top athletes dope,

And even if i didnt take that view. His brother got caught, then he comes along, beats a bunch of known dopers in the Giro at 22, flies away from everyone in Liege, and is the best climber in the 2010 Tour de doping.

Im just saying this is pretty much what i expected. Contador is still a friend of his no?
Would You be this Cynical:

Tour De France 2010 Final General Classification:

1 CONTADOR Alberto (ASTANA) 91h 58' 48" Doped
2 SCHLECK Andy (SAXO BANK) + 00' 39" Doped
3 MENCHOV Denis (RABOBANK) + 02' 01" Doped
4 SANCHEZ Samuel (EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI) + 03' 40" Doped
5 VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen (OMEGA PHARMA - LOTTO) + 06' 54" Doped
6 GESINK Robert (RABOBANK) + 09' 31" Doped
7 HESJEDAL Ryder (GARMIN - TRANSITIONS) + 10' 15" Doped
8 RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin (KATUSHA TEAM) + 11' 37" Doped
9 KREUZIGER Roman (LIQUIGAS-DOIMO) + 11' 54" Doped
10 HORNER Christopher (RADIOSHACK) + 12' 02" Doped
 
Jul 6, 2010
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miloman said:
Call me a cynic, but more and more I am questioning how clean the peloton really is in 2010. Maybe what we are seeing is simply better pharmacology and masking. It’s sad, but I’m becoming increasingly suspicious that the top 5 on the GC in any stage race, let alone the Tour, is doing it on diet, training and strategy alone. Anyone agree?
Top 5 GC in a multi-day race? Of course!
 
Oct 25, 2010
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hrotha said:
On the contrary, sounds like he doesn't think anyone cheated - including himself.
Bingo. You see, you get a bit older and you see how people defend themselves and how they argue. Before too long, you learn how to spot the lies. People who get genuinely cheated out of something like the TDF tend to behave like the guy who just had his own house robbed. They're angry and they feel violated. They can barely sit still.

Andy is behaving strangely for a guy who just got cheated out of millions of Euros. Unless he was just "proportionally" cheated ;)

Andy's likely a doper too. He doesn't want to wake the sleeping giant, so he just rolls with it like a good little soldier. He's just ****ed that Riis is bringing in a new Capo, so he's gonna create his own new Brooklyn crew.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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miloman said:
Call me a cynic, but more and more I am questioning how clean the peloton really is in 2010. Maybe what we are seeing is simply better pharmacology and masking. It’s sad, but I’m becoming increasingly suspicious that the top 5 on the GC in any stage race, let alone the Tour, is doing it on diet, training and strategy alone. Anyone agree?
When you have guys like JB and LA delivering suitcases full of cash to guys like Hein Verbruggen, you start to realize that the TDF is as much spectacle as it is sporting event. My guess? The UCI and the mob-like leaders of the peloton have an "understanding". They throw a few low-level lambs under the bus each year to manage public perception. Cases like AC's mean there is a back-room conflict brewing in the billiards hall. Maybe McQuaid was expecting a heavier suitcase last week.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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sorry for being a tad naive, but how 'bout just giving the lad a compliment for sounding as a gentleman should sound.

does everything need to have a dark sub-meaning ?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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python said:
sorry for being a tad naive, but how 'bout just giving the lad a compliment for sounding as a gentleman should sound.

does everything need to have a dark sub-meaning ?
Forgive him, he's a newb to bike racing.
 
Dennis "Vienna" Menchov said exactly the same thing about Heras, after the 2005 Vuelta, when Roberto tested positive for EPO.
They actually see this method of winning as less "fair and square", than having a better programme than their rivals.
 
Jun 29, 2009
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If you are not mad at cheaters you are most likely a cheater yourself. I think the very different reactions to the Contador case just show that there are still two sides in pro cycling and the dark one probably still the bigger one.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Sophistic said:
If you are not mad at cheaters you are most likely a cheater yourself. I think the very different reactions to the Contador case just show that there are still two sides in pro cycling and the dark one probably still the bigger one.
i brought this before several times and haven't seen yet a reasonable response - the absolute majority of this forum members voted a while back in a poll that they would cheat if they were put in the riders environment. who should they be mad at ?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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python said:
i brought this before several times and haven't seen yet a reasonable response - the absolute majority of this forum members voted a while back in a poll that they would cheat if they were put in the riders environment. who should they be mad at ?
We arguably have an alcoholic society, yet we still choose to consider it a crime to drive while intoxicated (at least I presume it's illegal in the UK).

We might have a dichotomy going on here, but that's not a reason to start looking the other way and accept hopelessness.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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BotanyBay said:
We arguably have an alcoholic society, yet we still choose to consider it a crime to drive while intoxicated (at least I presume it's illegal in the UK).

We might have a dichotomy going on here, but that's not a reason to start looking the other way and accept hopelessness.
i am not suggesting to look the other way - where did you see that ? - i am pointing to an apparent hypocrisy or a double standard when 'others' are to suffer. if anything i suggested not looking the other way but to start looking inward, at ourselves before passing various judgments. but this is an old tune i don't expect resolved here.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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python said:
i am not suggesting to look the other way - where did you see that ? - i am pointing to an apparent hypocrisy or a double standard when 'others' are to suffer. if anything i suggested not looking the other way but to start looking inward, at ourselves before passing various judgments. but this is an old tune i don't expect resolved here.
I don't seek punishment as much as I seek accountability. Unfortunately, guys like these never seem to come to the place of accountability on their own. It requires negative consequences. I can totally see your point on the hypocrisy of the situation (and Lord knows, we all have our own personal demons). I can not speak for the others, but I care more about ownership and recognition of the problem than I care about throwing the first stone.
 
The Devil said:
Would You be this Cynical:

Tour De France 2010 Final General Classification:

1 CONTADOR Alberto (ASTANA) 91h 58' 48" Doped
2 SCHLECK Andy (SAXO BANK) + 00' 39" Doped
3 MENCHOV Denis (RABOBANK) + 02' 01" Doped
4 SANCHEZ Samuel (EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI) + 03' 40" Doped
5 VAN DEN BROECK Jurgen (OMEGA PHARMA - LOTTO) + 06' 54" Doped
6 GESINK Robert (RABOBANK) + 09' 31" Doped
7 HESJEDAL Ryder (GARMIN - TRANSITIONS) + 10' 15" Doped
8 RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin (KATUSHA TEAM) + 11' 37" Doped
9 KREUZIGER Roman (LIQUIGAS-DOIMO) + 11' 54" Doped
10 HORNER Christopher (RADIOSHACK) + 12' 02" Doped
Contador Schleck Menchov Samu (as much as i like him) definately.

VDB Gesink Heysdal no doubt.

Purito duh

Kreuziger, sure

Horner, i really like him and he did get there on a 10 minute break but on the other hand he lost minutes helping Lance elsewhere. And many say its suspicious to see40 year olds doing Tour top 10s

And many here believe the guys who came 13th and 24th were doping. So why not the guys who came top 10.
 
Nov 3, 2010
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I think Schleck is mainly saying it's crap to win away from the race without all the glory of riding into Paris and the thrill of enjoying the aftermath. That's the real point here.

At least when Rasmussen was pulled out it was just in time for Contador to enjoy the win on the road. That's perhaps why Contador does not say Rasmussen was the real winner of the 2007 TdF.
 
python said:
i brought this before several times and haven't seen yet a reasonable response - the absolute majority of this forum members voted a while back in a poll that they would cheat if they were put in the riders environment. who should they be mad at ?
interesting. I didnt see that. I would have voted no.
 
Nov 3, 2010
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luckyboy said:
You get down to 15th and 17th place before you can really call anyone clean.
The real race could have been going on in the 20s.

The possible top four of the clean riders this year:

23. ARMSTRONG Lance
24. WIGGINS Bradley
25. CASAR Sandy
26. EVANS Cadel

It is interesting that Armstrong, Wiggins and Evans ended up so close. Most people considered Armstrong to be clean this year with the unprecidented scrutiny from Interpol, the French feds, the US Feds, and the media. Maybe he won it?
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Bilirubin said:
I think Schleck is mainly saying it's crap to win away from the race without all the glory of riding into Paris and the thrill of enjoying the aftermath. That's the real point here.

At least when Rasmussen was pulled out it was just in time for Contador to enjoy the win on the road. That's perhaps why Contador does not say Rasmussen was the real winner of the 2007 TdF.
Or, it points to extreme narcissism (which is the principal trait of the systematic cheater).
 
Bilirubin said:
Most people considered Armstrong to be clean this year with the unprecidented scrutiny from Interpol, the French feds, the US Feds, and the media. Maybe he won it?
Did they?

A bit of fanboy subterfuge there.
If we are going to play the "who's clean?" guessing game, then I'd suggest we start with Nick Roche in 15th and Thomas Lövkvist in 17th.

So, no, the new, clean Lance, still has no Tour wins to his credit.:p
 
Nov 7, 2010
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The Hitch said:
Contador Schleck Menchov Samu (as much as i like him) definately.

VDB Gesink Heysdal no doubt.

Purito duh

Kreuziger, sure

Horner, i really like him and he did get there on a 10 minute break but on the other hand he lost minutes helping Lance elsewhere. And many say its suspicious to see40 year olds doing Tour top 10s

And many here believe the guys who came 13th and 24th were doping. So why not the guys who came top 10.
I have often wondered if it possible to Win A three week Grand Tour without resorting to PED'S. Given it's extreme difficulty. Not having enough time to recover properly both Mentally and Physically between stages. It is extreme to the limit. I can imagine the hangover these guy's have from the physical tiredness and mental fatigue they face day in and day out from racing. It is more demanding than anyone can imagine. Only those who have experienced what it is like could tell You. Elite or not, everybody has to recover. What are the true Limit's of human endurance in an event such as The Tour De France? Can it be properly determined by science? Is all that training simply not enough? Could one say that the Tour De France is riddled with Drugs, and will be for ever more Amen? Compare it to Body Builder's. For whom it is impossible to gain such Muscle Mass without taking HGH, steroid's ect............
 
Jul 3, 2010
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Bilirubin said:
The real race could have been going on in the 20s.

The possible top four of the clean riders this year:

23. ARMSTRONG Lance
24. WIGGINS Bradley
25. CASAR Sandy
26. EVANS Cadel

It is interesting that Armstrong, Wiggins and Evans ended up so close. Most people considered Armstrong to be clean this year with the unprecidented scrutiny from Interpol, the French feds, the US Feds, and the media. Maybe he won it?
I'm no fanboy but that would be hilarious. It would, however be proof of his compact with Mephastophales.

Please, UCI, release plactisizer tests and show us the true winner!
 

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