Schleck should give up yellow.

[BYOP88]

Andy might win the Tour, if he's prepared for Frank to work for him and not stop riding if Frank's in trouble/about to blow. IMHO this years course was made for Schleck, the TTT he just had to hang on to Cancellara and he'd be there or thereabouts. I guess the ASO thought well he's won L-B-L, so he can do the short hilly climbs, lets put a few of them in for him. The final thing the ASO got wrong was the ITT, it was about 20km to long for Andy. So next year 1 ITT no more than 20km and no descending and no short sharp climbs and Andy might win.

 

[Marcuccio]

Maybe Andy needs a year off to do some pro mountain biking!

 

[moonstation2000]

Maybe he just needs to understand who his true competition is in the race. He could & should have beaten Evans in the mountains where he had his advantage, since everyone knew Cadel was gonna take time in the TT.

He was too preoccupied with Contador the whole race.

 

[movingtarget]

+1 It took Cadel 2 2nd places and years of trying and he finally does it at 34. Why should Andy give up?

Exactly and Andy is only 26. I doubt Contador will dominate the 2012 TDF if he rides, the way he dominated the Giro. He only beat Andy by a small margin last year. Sure it's frustrating as Evans only knows too well. Andy has plenty of talent but sometimes the tactics are not there and he still has to improve his TT and descending skills by more or risk attacking more in the mountains.

 

[Marcuccio]

I really like AS - he seems to have a pleasant demeaner, and you never get that 'holier than though' vibe from him, or his brother for that fact.

I hope he spends the time between now and then, to analyse what he did right, what he did wrong, how to improve, and just knuckle down and do it.

I honestly think a kick up the *** would be a good thing for him. He knows what it's like to lose, and with any luck, he will soon know what it's like to win!

He's only 26, got time on his side!

 

[The Ripper]

Indeed, even when Pantani won the Tour de France he rode to a 3rd place in the ITT.

When Rasmussen was winning the 07 tour he suprised everyone by doing a fantastic Albi TT (similar to grenoble ITT).
Schleck had a TT suited to him and still couldn't top 15... it's worrying

I don't want to drag this into a clinic discussion, but those examples are not good ones to use, given all of the other information we now have about Pantani and Rasmussen in those tours

 

[Franklin]

I don't want to drag this into a clinic discussion, but those examples are not good ones to use, given all of the other information we now have about Pantani and Rasmussen in those tours

Seriously.. why not? How they did it doesn't matter for this discussion.. they had to get a good TT to win it.

Charged, not charged, 30 years ago, the last 10 years... it doesn't matter the statistic stands.

 

[Franklin]

Marco Pantani in 1998

Nope.. third. he also did a impressive last TT in the Giro. Charged or not, he did a fantastic TT.

Lucien Van Impe in 1976

Nope, fifth (1976). And third in 1983. Also, both in 75 and 76 he ended solidly top ten (around eighth) in the last flat TT. I haven't checked further

Obviously van Impe had a much better TT than people realized.

So sorry, I covered them already. Andy never came close to either of them in TT capabilities.

 

[The Ripper]

Seriously.. why not? How they did it doesn't matter for this discussion.. they had to get a good TT to win it.

Charged, not charged, 30 years ago, the last 10 years... it doesn't matter the statistic stands.

Bwa ha ha ha ha! Of course it matters. If Andy came in second or third in this tour's final TT, we'd all be waiting for the news leak in the next week. Just like no one was shocked when Rasmussen was given the punt (ummm, he didn't win ) Heras smoked a TT and then, oh ya, things did not work out so well.

Andy lost this year's race in the mountains. The reason why is he was not able to get rid of the right people and gain enough time. He likely did not prepare as well as he should have ... doing almost nothing all year is not the best way to prepare for a GT. As I said in an earlier post, it is too severe to say Andy should give up, of course he shouldn't. But he does need to change his preparation.

 

[HL2037]

With age it almost certainly improves. It has to if he will win a TdF.

Seriously, experts from all over the world has been summoned to try and figure a way to make Andy more aero. Saturday you saw the result.

 

[Spaniard]

I don't think he should give up, he is a great ryder but he is so focused in the Tour that he lacks of EXPERIENCE, I mean he is not used to defend his first position or when and where put the hammer.

Contador has been in such variety of situations in stage races (not only GTs) that he knows how to measure the gaps among other contenders, he knows when he need to put more time and when he can save energies for coming stages.

If Andy learns that he will know that he can't wait for sunny long climbs stages to make an attack.

 

[The Ripper]

A bit of a mean joke, but this said it all ...

"Andy Schleck's eyes were full of rain and anger that a downhill finish would cost him over a minute to the GC contenders. If not for time-trialing, descending and climbs where you need to change gears, he could probably win the Tour de France"

 

[Dedelou]

If his TT doesn't improve dramatically it becomes a REALLY long shot tbh.

In the last forty years there is no example of a similar bad TT rider winning a TdF.

I simply can't think of a single one.

*For those wondering check out the last TT of Sastre, van Impe and Pantani.
** Actually van Impe did a top five in a pancake TT several times.
***Sastre is by far the worst with 12th.
**** AC 2010 is also odd, but he won the flat TT the year before, so he's hardly a bad TT rider. And he took a lot of time in the prologue.

ASO did everything this year to design a Tour that would suit him and the team he rode with and even with a single short ITT, and a TTT where he disgraced his name by Sh%t-hooking on Cancellara, he was not able to win. He has a lot to learn, but on his side is youth and money, so he just need to acquire som dedication. No reason to give his goal up yet

 

[Dedelou]

Bwa ha ha ha ha! Of course it matters. If Andy came in second or third in this tour's final TT, we'd all be waiting for the news leak in the next week. Just like no one was shocked when Rasmussen was given the punt (ummm, he didn't win ) Heras smoked a TT and then, oh ya, things did not work out so well.

Andy lost this year's race in the mountains. The reason why is he was not able to get rid of the right people and gain enough time. He likely did not prepare as well as he should have ... doing almost nothing all year is not the best way to prepare for a GT. As I said in an earlier post, it is too severe to say Andy should give up, of course he shouldn't. But he does need to change his preparation.

I am with you that Andy lost the Tour in the mountains and a certain Contador made sure to Nail his coffin at L'alpes d'huez. Evans won the tour but being there when it matter day in and day out, compensating with hard work for the part where his body type and talents were inferiors to explosive climbers.

 

[Franklin]

Bwa ha ha ha ha! Of course it matters.

Once again.. no. Thats a different discussion. The HOW is not as important here as the WHY. The reason he needsw to TT is that otheriwse it's impossible to win a TdF.

Of course the mentioned people were chargers, but it did not change the fact that as contenders they dleivered a very good TT. Every example, every year, pre and post Epo says the same thing. It's impossible to say that's a coincidence.

Andy lost this year's race in the mountains. The reason why is he was not able to get rid of the right people and gain enough time.

Why would Andy be the very first TdF winner ever to break this rule (I'd go as far to say it's almost a law).

Why is this not true for Andy, what makes him so special? Is he the best climber ever? Why did other great climbers not succeed? Why did the climbers that succeeded have a good TT?

Those are questions Andy needs to answer, otherwise it's pretty much a mission impossible.

Seriously, experts from all over the world has been summoned to try and figure a way to make Andy more aero. Saturday you saw the result.

In general the TT skills of a rider get better when he ages (up to a certain point, and the ofc they decrease). Certainly not as much a rule as the "TdF winner must be good in the TT", but it's usually true.

Also, besides being more Aero, Andy simply lost handfuls of seconds by his cornering, picking wrong lines etc. if anything, experience should help. Keep in mind he races so little that he almost never does a TT...

And yes, there we get to the "preparation" side. For instance Gesink seems to have improved his TT by doing smaller races (seems is the key word ^^)

 

[Nick C.]

I think eventually he will win one, but the last two years everything (but 1) has gone his way, from Frank taking out the field on the arenberg stage, to having his one crash result in the stage being neutralized, to having Cancellara, O'Grady and Voigt et. al. to sit on in the TTT and pack, all the favorites that were taken out in the first week, Cadel's mechanical, Voekler being in yellow thereby saving his team, rolling in alongside Contador on stage 1 and having them finish with a 1:20 time gap. It's going to be interesting to see what happens if things don't all shake out in his favor.

 

[eztarget]

Will Andy Schleck EVER win a TDF or always be a bridesmaid?

He clearly has all the climbing tools to win but his team strategy and ITT results are horrible. The team thing is fixable but can this guy ever improve his ITT?

To lose :57 seconds and then another 1:34 on the 2nd to last stage is inexcusable if you consider yourself a GC favorite. Unless you can climb and TT I doubt you'll ever win a major stage race. Guys like Armstrong and Contador were/are great at BOTH disciplines.

So will Andy Schleck ever win the TDF? I just don't see him doing it.

 

[Thomsena]

Sorry, but could this not be in any of the other 30 threads about Andy Schleck?

 

[eztarget]

Sorry, but could this not be in any of the other 30 threads about Andy Schleck?

It's a poll asking a simple question. I didn't realize there was SO much going on today involving cycling that you needed this buried in another thread.

Man people find anything to complain about.

 

[Bala Verde]

threads merged. Please use the search function before opening another thread that has been covered in great detail elsewhere.

 

[Angliru]

If there are two long ITTs, and even a medium team TT...this makes him more of a Robert Millar or Andy Hampsten--

Its only because they are not heaving real TTTs and two long ITTs that its even close.

Without the crashes, you would have Wiggins, Evans, and Leipheimer/Kloden winning yellow on the first ITT, giving the jersey up, staying close in the mountains--which could have been very diferent if Horner was there since it is likely he could have gotten away either alone or with Andy etc, then fighting for the jersey at then end.

The way Leipheimer was climbing he definitely wouldn't have been staying close in the mountains. Kloden showed much better form and even Horner IMO was more likely to hold his own in the mountains than Leipheimer who seems to be on the wrong side of the hill right now. Of course this is all speculation but it is a forum so what else would it be?

 

[Old&slow]

He already has won a TDF, in 2010. It just will not be official until August.

But winning again IMO is doubtful unless he learns how to TT. The next 2 years Evans will likely be his main competition and heis best oppurtunity. If they put in a flat 55k ITT Evans could put 5 mins on Andy. If they move away from the recent demphasis on ITT's and go back to 2 ITT's he has no chance. In 2014 he may have to deal with Contador returning from his suspension along with a host of young riders who are already much better at the ITT than he is.

If they do an uphill ITT like 2005's AlpDe Huez ITT then Andy has a chance even with another flat ITT. But given his limitations the parcours need to be very favorable to Andy if he is to have a chance.

Unless he learns how to TT his window for winning another Tour is rapidly closing.

 

[Havetts]

Im so glad this forum didnt exist when Zoetemelk was riding the Tour de France...

 

[Angliru]

He already has won a TDF, in 2010. It just will not be official until August.But winning again IMO is doubtful unless he learns how to TT. The next 2 years Evans will likely be his main competition and heis best oppurtunity. If they put in a flat 55k ITT Evans could put 5 mins on Andy. If they move away from the recent demphasis on ITT's and go back to 2 ITT's he has no chance. In 2014 he may have to deal with Contador returning from his suspension along with a host of young riders who are already much better at the ITT than he is.

Unless he learns how to TT his window for winning another Tour is rapidly closing.

@the bolded sentence:
You must have some inside info that 98% of the cycling world doesn't have access to for you to be so certain. Why don't you enlighten/share with us.

All Andy needs to do is to ride smarter tactically, don't wait till week three to decide that it is then time to try to take time out of his opponents and just maybe try to win a couple of week long stage races to help him learn how to manage a race from beginning to end. I can't imagine that everyone that has been managing/ds'g for him is as clueless as his riding displays so it must be him making his own decisions (bad ones) and ignoring his management's suggestions. I recall last year Riis mentioning that he told Andy to attack at some point thinking it was an opportune time and Andy decided the time wasn't right. The ineptitude of race management has continued without Riis so I can only guess that he's the problem---along with his and Frank's obsession with ruling the cycling world, tactics be damned.

 

[The Ripper]

Once again.. no. Thats a different discussion. The HOW is not as important here as the WHY. The reason he needsw to TT is that otheriwse it's impossible to win a TdF.

Once again - bwa ha ha ha. Yes, it does matter. Pick some other climbers that pulled out that kind of TT. Not a "hanging in there and killing them in the climbs" performance.

While Andy gave up the jersey after the TT (or perhaps during is a better statement ), he lost the race by not taking major time in what was "supposed to be" his domain, at least according to most pundits. When you think about it, while I applaud the actions of his breakaway, in reality it was a bit of a desperate move because he had not managed to do anything in the mountains up to that point.

Of course he needs to work more on his TT.

He also needs to really work on his descending and cornering ... these are pretty easy skills to nail down in training, although he just might have to enter a few more races over the course of the year to get that full on simulation.

He needs to work on tactics. And once again, some of that has to come from racing experience, which is not going to happen from merely riding. He needs to race, and to go for it in thos races. One thing Contador and Evans have proven is that racing, especially racing smaller stage races, is great preparation.

If Blech had not lost time in the descent, and he had put another minute into Evans on a climb, it would be a different story. Evans prepared well and raced well, Andy was arrogant in his build up.