Schlecks Depreciation Thread

[palmerq]

no clinic talk please :S

 

[theyoungest]

It's possible to be a champion and a great talent and not rub everyone up the wrong way though, you know. It's why Valentino Rossi isn't reviled like Michael Schumacher. People like Miguel Indurain don't engender the same antipathy.

Schleck is a whiner. He builds his whole season around the Tour and doesn't treat anything else seriously. And then he doesn't win the Tour (except by default). That suggests that something needs to be changed. But as long as he can blame something else (as he frequently does) he won't change, and the outcome won't change either.

He's becoming the Leif Hoste of the Grand Tours.

He's no Leif Hoste. Hoste comes up with different excuses, Andy has been talking about chaingate almost continously for 2 years now. In every damn interview.

 

[issoisso]

He's no Leif Hoste. Hoste comes up with different excuses, Andy has been talking about chaingate almost continously for 2 years now. In every damn interview.

He sorta does, actually.


At the 2007 Giro it was Di Luca's team's fault for being stronger in the TTT. The fact that Di Luca beat him up the climbs is apparently irrelevant.

At the 2008 Tour it was Sastre's fault for attacking at Alpe d'Huez. Apparently the fact that that was exactly the team's plan pre-stage is irrelevant, as is the fact that Sastre specifically did not attack on the Bonette climb when Frank asked him not to.

At the 2009 Tour it was the motorbikes' fault for supposedly pacing Contador up the climbs in Andorra, Verbier and the time trial. Apparently that's the only reason that Andy lost any time.

At the 2010 Vuelta it was Bjarne Riis's fault for "being unreasonable" and kicking him out of the race just because he was out drinking until 3 am and came back to the hotel loud and intoxicated. Apparently that's perfectly acceptable behaviour for a professional in the middle of one of the biggest races of the season.

At the 2011 Tour it was the route's fault because apparently bike racers aren't supposed to need any bike handling skills and descents apparently aren't supposed to affect races.

For the last 3 years it's been the other contenders' fault for not attacking because apparently the Schlecks have been the only ones who have attacked at the Tour in this period of time, and they didn't make any tactical mistakes at all.

(For those in disbelief, yes, the Schleck brothers really have claimed every single one of these mind-meltingly ridiculous things)

 

[airstream]

if to set a goal to find reasons to critisize a famous rider on the base of his statements, youll always succeed. its not difficult. thats why i prefer not to pay attention to that too much. its great they are all so different. an outstanding contador, loving to race,a fair plodder evans, the man with no particular talents and andy, a quitter and a whiner, and others. the difference creates a dramaturgy.

 

[The Hitch]

if to set a goal to find reasons to critisize a famous rider on the base of his statements, youll always succeed. its not difficult. thats why i prefer not to pay attention to that too much. its great they are all so different. an outstanding contador, loving to race,a fair plodder evans, the man with no particular talents and andy, a quitter and a whiner, and others. the difference creates a dramaturgy.

I was supporting Andy in 10 and made the Andy Schleck appreciation thread in 2010. It wasnt because we look for Andys comments that we dont like him. Its because he keeps coming out saying idiotic insulting and egotistical ungrounded in reality things, that we don't like him.

 

[Christian]

(For those in disbelief, yes, the Schleck brothers really have claimed every single one of these mind-meltingly ridiculous things)

Well I think you might have a bit of a selective perception when it comes to Andy and/or Fränk. Some of these things I cannot remember but I believe that he said them. On the other hand he said or did things about the same subjects that indicate his opinions are a bit more balanced on certain issues. For example I know he was really happy about 2nd place in 2007 (and smoked Di Luca on Zoncolan, what a cool stage ), same with 2009 of course he knows he didn't lose because of some motorbike (btw Thomas Voeckler has smashed many a bidon over the same issue), beergate "he's the boss, I respect his decisions", chaingate saving Contador from a lynching mob of angry French dudes, 2011 acknowledging he was not strong enough ...

These things he ALSO said but you maybe didn't read those interviews. The funny thing is most people ignore the good stuff and specifically look for the controversial stuff. How did a famous singer (I forgot her name) say "love me or hate me, it's still an obsession", and if you don't buy that go with Elie Wiesel: "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference". Most people don't look for things that challenge their opinion, they only look for validation to see that they are right. That's why on facebook we just block that annoying guy that we used to go to elementary school with. A lot of people don't come here to discuss, they come to hear that they are right. This time I exclude myself - if that was the case I'd go elsewhere (and yes there are dark corners of the internet where I could go).

Diplomacy is boring ... I like a genuine guy who says (and does) whatever he feels like and doesn't care what it might sound like or what people might think. I respect Contador and Evans but let's face it their voices sound awful and their interviews (at least on TV) are rather boring. That's when I appreciate a little stomach full of anger or a beergate every now and then. But that doesn't mean that's all there is.

That's my "word for Sunday" ("Wort zum Sonntag"), as they say. Good night

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This is my Wort zum Sonntag, however.

 

[The Hitch]

Well I think you might have a bit of a selective perception when it comes to Andy and/or Fränk. Some of these things I cannot remember but I believe that he said them. On the other hand he said or did things about the same subjects that indicate his opinions are a bit more balanced on certain issues. For example I know he was really happy about 2nd place in 2007 (and smoked Di Luca on Zoncolan, what a cool stage ), same with 2009 of course he knows he didn't lose because of some motorbike (btw Thomas Voeckler has smashed many a bidon over the same issue), beergate "he's the boss, I respect his decisions", chaingate saving Contador from a lynching mob of angry French dudes, 2011 acknowledging he was not strong enough ...

These things he ALSO said but you maybe didn't read those interviews. The funny thing is most people ignore the good stuff and specifically look for the controversial stuff. How did a famous singer (I forgot her name) say "love me or hate me, it's still an obsession", and if you don't buy that go with Elie Wiesel: "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference". Most people don't look for things that challenge their opinion, they only look for validation to see that they are right. That's why on facebook we just block that annoying guy that we used to go to elementary school with. A lot of people don't come here to discuss, they come to hear that they are right. This time I exclude myself - if that was the case I'd go elsewhere (and yes there are dark corners of the internet where I could go).

Diplomacy is boring ... I like a genuine guy who says (and does) whatever he feels like and doesn't care what it might sound like or what people might think. I respect Contador and Evans but let's face it their voices sound awful and their interviews (at least on TV) are rather boring. That's when I appreciate a little stomach full of anger or a beergate every now and then. But that doesn't mean that's all there is.

That's my "word for Sunday" ("Wort zum Sonntag"), as they say. Good night

Wheres the one where he admits Sastre is a better cyclist than Frank will ever be and a deserved TDF winner who was simply stronger than the Schlecks?

Because even if in everything else Schleck has ever said is gold, and even if he never meant any of the other stuff he said, the attitude towards Sastre reveals the scum inside, period.

As for saving Contador from a lynch mob, lol talk about exaggeration. And no saying that does not excuse Andy from all the whining about the incident he has done since (baring in mind Schlekc was hardly in the right that Tour).

The reason people look at the bad and not the good is because the 1 or 2 statements that suggest andy may sometimes be a friendly person to be around, just do not compare to some of the unfair and even vicious remarks he comes out with, ie the bad.

 

[movingtarget]

ya because the legendarily always aggressive rider that is cadel evans would have attacked into gap and pinerollo . . . who are we kidding here? how many proper attacks did evans made this year? he deserved the win and he surely didn't wheelsuck but he only responded to race situations created by other riders and not himself.

Which is the clever way to ride when you are riding against better climbers, no ? As for the Gap stage, I did not say that Evans would have attacked but the fact that the road was wet and Schleck was going down the mountain like an old woman, almost crashing on one corner, makes me think that Sanchez and Evans still may have opened a gap and still put time into Schleck. Everyone knows the way Evans races now and he won't change before he retires. I still don't believe Schleck would have been much more aggressive without Contador there. Most of the time Schleck reacts to Contador. It will be very interesting to see what happens to Andy this year without Contador in the race. It could be more confusing for him as he will be looking for four of five other rivals not just one. Of course he has not rated Evans as a rival in the TDF for the past few years and reacted much too late in the race even though his win on Galibier was a great one. For Schleck it was always Contador as the only one who could stop him in a grand tour. ..........oops, back to the drawing board for Schleck.

 

[Havetts]

Most of the time Schleck reacts to Contador.

Why does everyone say this?

2010 Tour:
Avoriaz stage? Andy lighting it up.
Madeleine stage? Andy lighting it up.
Mende? Contador riding away on his specialty, accelerating alot on steep parts.
Ax-3-Domaines? Andy reacting cause hes in yellow, decides to do the sur-place cause he doesnt want Contador to profit from him.
Chaingate stage? Andy attacking, chain pops then Contador reacts
Tourmalet? All Andy, besides 1 dig from Contador.

2011 Tour:
Luz Ardiden? Andy & Frank attacking, Contador reacting.
Plateau de Beille? Andy & Frank doing weak and short attacks.
Gap & Pinerolo? Credits to Contador.
Galibier? All Andy.
L'Alpe? Contador definitely. But kudo's to Andy for reacting and not sitting in the peloton.


So where is this, lets see what Contador does attitude?

 

[movingtarget]

Why does everyone say this?

2010 Tour:
Avoriaz stage? Andy lighting it up.
Madeleine stage? Andy lighting it up.
Mende? Contador riding away on his specialty, accelerating alot on steep parts.
Ax-3-Domaines? Andy reacting cause hes in yellow, decides to do the sur-place cause he doesnt want Contador to profit from him.
Chaingate stage? Andy attacking, chain pops then Contador reacts
Tourmalet? All Andy, besides 1 dig from Contador.

2011 Tour:
Luz Ardiden? Andy & Frank attacking, Contador reacting.
Plateau de Beille? Andy & Frank doing weak and short attacks.
Gap & Pinerolo? Credits to Contador.
Galibier? All Andy.
L'Alpe? Contador definitely. But kudo's to Andy for reacting and not sitting in the peloton.


So where is this, lets see what Contador does attitude?

Fair point. Let's just say that Contador makes more meaningful, prolonged attacks, usually. Once he attacks he keeps attacking. I was very impressed with Schleck in 2010 TDF but in 2011 not so much. Was 2010 Schleck meeting an out of sorts 2010 Contador or did Schleck really push an in form Contador and Contador just had an under par final TT ? I don't think Schleck had that sort of form in 2011. If he and Menchov can regain that form from 2010 it should be a great race in 2012 with three of four other real contenders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nah, Schleck in 2010 had reason to attack again. Normally he attacks, then looks for Fränk, realises big bro isn't joining him, and sits up.

 

[El Pistolero]

Why does everyone say this?

2010 Tour:
Avoriaz stage? Andy lighting it up.
Madeleine stage? Andy lighting it up.
Mende? Contador riding away on his specialty, accelerating alot on steep parts.
Ax-3-Domaines? Andy reacting cause hes in yellow, decides to do the sur-place cause he doesnt want Contador to profit from him.
Chaingate stage? Andy attacking, chain pops then Contador reacts
Tourmalet? All Andy, besides 1 dig from Contador.

2011 Tour:
Luz Ardiden? Andy & Frank attacking, Contador reacting.
Plateau de Beille? Andy & Frank doing weak and short attacks.
Gap & Pinerolo? Credits to Contador.
Galibier? All Andy.
L'Alpe? Contador definitely. But kudo's to Andy for reacting and not sitting in the peloton.


So where is this, lets see what Contador does attitude?

2011 Tour is irrelevant, we all know he was tired because of the Giro. He never the less made sure Schleck lost the Tour last year

In 2010 he just looked tired. Let's wait and see what will happen in 2013(or 2012 if he appeals)

I don't call what Andy did in most climbs attacks by the way. You seem to do...

 

[movingtarget]

2011 Tour is irrelevant, we all know he was tired because of the Giro. He never the less made sure Schleck lost the Tour last year

In 2010 he just looked tired. Let's wait and see what will happen in 2013(or 2012 if he appeals)

I don't call what Andy did in most climbs attacks by the way. You seem to do...

I am not convinced that Schleck would have won anyway in 2012 even without Contador. There is no doubt that Contador messes with Schleck's head though just by being there.

 

[thehog]

I am not convinced that Schleck would have won anyway in 2012 even without Contador. There is no doubt that Contador messes with Schleck's head though just by being there.

This I agree with. He's afraid of leadership. He looks to Contador to attack so he can follow. If I were Evans I would pile the pressure on Shleck by telling the press that Andy is favourite and must defend the Tour. Sure fire way for Shleck to fail.

 

[hfer07]

Why does everyone say this?

2010 Tour:
Avoriaz stage? Andy lighting it up.
Madeleine stage? Andy lighting it up.
Mende? Contador riding away on his specialty, accelerating alot on steep parts.
Ax-3-Domaines? Andy reacting cause hes in yellow, decides to do the sur-place cause he doesnt want Contador to profit from him.
Chaingate stage? Andy attacking, chain pops then Contador reacts
Tourmalet? All Andy, besides 1 dig from Contador.

2011 Tour:
Luz Ardiden? Andy & Frank attacking, Contador reacting.
Plateau de Beille? Andy & Frank doing weak and short attacks.
Gap & Pinerolo? Credits to Contador.
Galibier? All Andy.
L'Alpe? Contador definitely. But kudo's to Andy for reacting and not sitting in the peloton.


So where is this, lets see what Contador does attitude?

I want to quote someone who really expresses his mind & the raw truth without any compromise or bias:

Sometimes I wonder about him (Andy) He rode so badly in 2010 when contador was there for the taking... If he had been less naive then, he would have won the race already..

 

[The Hitch]

What havetts ignores is that contador was in a winning position. even when 40 sec down the onus was all on Andy to put time in before the tts. that's why he attacked in 2 stages. meanwhile put contador in that position and he attacks at the whiff of a positive figure gradient. gap pinerolo alpe. each one moree unexpected than the last. and then there's giro stage 8 too. he didn't attack in le pyranees because as we saw he was too weak. couldn't even hold on let alone attack.

 

[Havetts]

I want to quote someone who really expresses his mind & the raw truth without any compromise or bias:

I actually looked at it unbiasedly (is that a word ?). The only moment I think Andy really cared about what Contador did was Plateau de Beille, Gap & Pinerolo and obviously Chaingate (for other reasons.)

About what Bernard Hinault says, hindsight is always 'easy'. I'm hundred percent sure if Andy could do better on for example the Tourmalet stage he would've done so. Also he was in a losing position and then he attacked on Port de Bales and heres chaingate, the major twisting point of the 2010 Tour.

 

[Havetts]

Don't think I don't credit Contador for what he did in the 2011 Giro, the 2011 Tour, I seriously respect it. But to not credit Andy Schleck at all is harsh, eventhough many of the forumites here seem to have no problem doing it.

Just playing the devil's advocate aswell.

 

[airstream]

2011 Tour is irrelevant, we all know he was tired because of the Giro.

how important is it now?? сontador didnt ride gts in 2011.

regarding 2010, it didnt seem he felt to be in winning position, based on his pyrenean riding, that's why he decided to insure on one of the climbs.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

chaingate, the major twisting point of the 2010 Tour.

You claim to be "unbiased," but how is chaingate more important than the Arenberg stage? Just curious.

 

[Havetts]

You claim to be "unbiased," but how is chaingate more important than the Arenberg stage? Just curious.

Look at the CN Poll if I remember correctly the most important event was voted to be "Chaingate" and not F Schleck falling and causing the split. Who do you hear talking about Arenberg besides the die-hard cycling fans? But the non-diehards will remember chaingate and not Arenberg.

It was bound to happen, splits in the peloton on cobbles. It happens in P-R it happens in le tour. Does anyone stop after a fall/puncture in P-R? Nope, its business as usual. Attacking after you see someones chain drop is not. Don't give me the Cancelara pulled alot after, he was already on front of the peloton when Fränky fell, iirc.

 

[thehog]

Look at the CN Poll if I remember correctly the most important event was voted to be "Chaingate" and not F Schleck falling and causing the split. Who do you hear talking about Arenberg besides the die-hard cycling fans? But the non-diehards will remember chaingate and not Arenberg.

It was bound to happen, splits in the peloton on cobbles. It happens in P-R it happens in le tour. Does anyone stop after a fall/puncture in P-R? Nope, its business as usual. Attacking after you see someones chain drop is not. Don't give me the Cancelara pulled alot after, he was already on front of the peloton when Fränky fell, iirc.

Problem being is Andy & Frank fall off their bikes a lot. Most of the time they want everyone to wait for them. Often the peloton does. Cancellara helps because he doesn't fall off.

When chain gate unfolded Andy again wanted to call a favour. I'd say he'd run out. He can't keep expecting the peloton to wait each & everytime he makes a mistake.

It will happen again. But I doubt the peloton will ever give him grace again.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Look at the CN Poll if I remember correctly the most important event was voted to be "Chaingate" and not F Schleck falling and causing the split. Who do you hear talking about Arenberg besides the die-hard cycling fans? But the non-diehards will remember chaingate and not Arenberg.

It was bound to happen, splits in the peloton on cobbles. It happens in P-R it happens in le tour. Does anyone stop after a fall/puncture in P-R? Nope, its business as usual. Attacking after you see someones chain drop is not. Don't give me the Cancelara pulled alot after, he was already on front of the peloton when Fränky fell, iirc.

And the 'Cancellara cancels the stage' - stage...?

 

[Froome19]

Problem being is Andy & Frank fall off their bikes a lot. Most of the time they want everyone to wait for them. Often the peloton does. Cancellara helps because he doesn't fall off.

When chain gate unfolded Andy again wanted to call a favour. I'd say he'd run out. He can't keep expecting the peloton to wait each & everytime he makes a mistake.

It will happen again. But I doubt the peloton will ever give him grace again.

Don't think he expected the peloton to wait, he just expected them not to attack.
I think everybody agrees that if Contador did know about Schleck's chain then he was wrong to attack