Schlecks Stage 14 appreciation thread

[BYOP88]

Come on, by the time Voigt crashed it was clear they weren't going to do anything. Voigt and Gerdemann would have been in the bunch for the final climb anyway without getting into the breakaway. Getting there only made sense if they were going to go all out on the three climbs in the middle of the stage, so that Voigt and Gerdemann could help in the flat before Plateau de Beille, and when Leopard got to the front I thought that was what they were doing. But nope. They just had O'Grady (STUART O'GRADY, former sprinter and green jersey guy) ride slightly faster for the rest of the day. What the hell was that about? What were they trying to accomplish? Who decides the tactics at this team?

O'Grady will win a mountain top finish

 

[scullster46]

My thought is that Andy is attacking, then looking back to see if all the other contenders minus big bro have fallen off their bikes in exhaustion from the massive effort of responding to his awesome attacks, or if Contador has dropped his chain so he can exact revenge and so that anger in his belly can settle down a bit. I honestly don't know how he rides so well when his stomach is so full all the time.

Honestly though maybe Leopard should get some team pshycologists to see why the brothers can't climb without each other. its borderline ridiculous.

 

[Gubby Allen]

They've been a couple of decent stages in the Pyranees, but it all feels a little monotonous & what I've seen a dozen times before:

Jens Voight & Stuart O'Grady riding themselves into oblivion at the front of group, while commentators go ridiculously overboard about how it's destroying the peloton when at best you're losing one outside GC contender who was already struggling anyway, another long shot and about 20 others who were never going to make it up there within 5 minutes of the leaders anyway.

Once those two have peeled off with exhaustion it's then 10km of watching Andy & Frank p*ss about with half-hearted attempts at a breaking away of which about 60-70% might actually work, if they didn't then stop to see if the other one had made it across.

Then in the last 200m, one of them will finally decide to have a little burst and gain 4 seconds.

It's starting to look more & more like they're trying to engineer a move which will allow Andy to win, Frank to come second, ensure the GC ends that way and if they cannot get that then won't bother.

Apart from the fact Andy Schleck isn't Contador, I find the clamour to want to see him win a little peculiar.

 

[Goldberger]

Funniest thing i read today is Andy Schleck didn't think the final climb was hard enough and not steep. He must be drugged out of his mind or just super strong, because plateau de beille is a really really hard climb.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Thomas Voeckler: “When I saw how windy it was in the valley prior to climbing to the Plateau de Beille, I thought my chance would be to hide from the wind as much as I could"
That could explain defensive tactics and really small time differences at the end.
Exposing yourself to 45km/h headwind to gain 30- 45 sec doesnt sound like a good deal. And you may pay for that later. Hope not for Sammu!
After all Tour de France is a war and today was just another battle

The same was said about Contador's attack to Arcalis in 2009. Too windy, not worth the effort. I hope (like you) that this kind of riding pays off again in contrast to the silliness of The Brothers Schleck.

Samu's gains:

Stage 12: + 0:30
Stage 14: + 0:25 on Andy; + 0:27 on everyone else

These are the favorites now (sorry, Cunego )

0:00 Cadel Evans 0:02:06
0:09 Andy Schleck 0:02:15
1:10 Ivan Basso 0:03:16
1:38 Samuel Sanchez 0:03:44
1:54 Alberto Contador 0:04:00

We're out of the Pyrenees now, and Samu has gained back a total of 0:55 on Andy and 0:57 on Basso and Evans. Plus, he's leap-frogged Contador. There are three more stages of climbing, one of which features a Samu-favoring descent before the finish: Wednesday's stage (Gap - Pinerolo).

I doubt Andy and Evans will let Samu off the front again so easily, but he's showing good enough form that they may not have a choice. And if he gets away on either of the two last climbs...

Samu is my dark horse to surprise everyone for the win now. Hitch, if I'm right, you can come over to Austin and buy me a beer.

 

[Delicato]

Frank already thinking about excuses on why the Schleck Bros won't win the Tour.

Yeah, the climb wasn't steep enough.

 

[Parrulo]

the stage into gap also has the famous descend where beloki crashed so thats 2 for samu

 

[Cimber]

hrotha "What were they trying to accomplish? Who decides the tactics at this team?"

+1. I find their tactics, well, let's see, incomprehensible? Mysterious? Opaque?

Andy had legs, you saw him shoot away at the end to gain...2sec

It's management. look at Liege, look at what they did to Molema in Lux. Today they all but carried the other contenders to the line. Like Liege. Sheesh. Fire the coach!

Ye they need to figure out that your cant play it safe all the time. You have to take risks and go all in in order to win.

 

[Parrulo]

this season has been proving how important riis was for the schlecks tactics and preparation

 

[etymology]

It's pretty disgusting to see this kind of lynch mob mentality which has developed on this board. As far as I can see, Frank is the only one of the top guys to gain anything significant in the Pyrenees and Andy has taken time on last year's winner on BOTH of the big stages.

Of course, we know for sure that each of you, when in the amount of pain that Frank and Andy would have been in after 2 weeks of cycling and 180km worth of brutal climbing, would have just attacked all the way up Plateau de Beille.

i agree there is a lynch mob mentality about the schlecks. after a year of andy's chain whining and the brothers' big pre-tour bravado, talk is cheap. i disagree that the tone is disgusting. with the schleck's pyranees performance now history, it is well deserved.


frank did gain time on stage 12 when he went off the front and no one followed. the way i see it, andy did not gain 13 seconds so much as contador lost 13 seconds to andy when he was dropped close to the finish.

i aver that if i were in the amount of pain that frank and andy would be in after two weeks of cycling and 180km worth of brutal climbing, i woud NOT have just attacked all the way up plateau de beille. no friggin' way!

i would have attacked from the base of col d'agnes, caught and passed the break 122.087 meters from the crest of port de lei's, then soloed to gloriouis victory atop plateau de beille (which is too short and not steep enough to wear ME down).

 

[VoidSix]

The're the 2 most talented climbers in the field, yet they lack the mentality of a true champion. A Hinault, a Pantani, an Armstrong would have made the field gasp for air and beg for mercy.

They could have finished of a tired Contador for the Tour on this stage. They didn't. I hope it comes to bite them in the but later on. The're too comfortable to deserve to win Le Tour.

The very limited Voeckler has more guts than the Schelck brothers combined.

Andy COULD lose 1:45 in the ITT to Contador, but I seriously doubt it. Last year he was in the virtual yellow at the midway point. His TT is a lot better than it was two years ago.

So he doesn't need any more time on Contador. He needs maybe 30-45 on Evans before the TT. Evans gets a lot of credit for his TT, but he couldn't pull back Sastre a couple years ago and he won't pull back Andy or Frank if they have a minute or so on him.

 

[Anonymous]

this season has been proving how important riis was for the schlecks tactics and preparation

How do you rate Kim Andersen as tactician..... horrible?

 

[thehog]

Perfect post.

They've been a couple of decent stages in the Pyranees, but it all feels a little monotonous & what I've seen a dozen times before:

Jens Voight & Stuart O'Grady riding themselves into oblivion at the front of group, while commentators go ridiculously overboard about how it's destroying the peloton when at best you're losing one outside GC contender who was already struggling anyway, another long shot and about 20 others who were never going to make it up there within 5 minutes of the leaders anyway.

Once those two have peeled off with exhaustion it's then 10km of watching Andy & Frank p*ss about with half-hearted attempts at a breaking away of which about 60-70% might actually work, if they didn't then stop to see if the other one had made it across.

Then in the last 200m, one of them will finally decide to have a little burst and gain 4 seconds.

It's starting to look more & more like they're trying to engineer a move which will allow Andy to win, Frank to come second, ensure the GC ends that way and if they cannot get that then won't bother.

Apart from the fact Andy Schleck isn't Contador, I find the clamour to want to see him win a little peculiar.

 

[VoidSix]

I think Andy and Frank will go when they need to. They do make a lot of excuses about the gradient of the climb and etc, but two years ago they made a lot of attacks against Contador, particularly in the stage where Contador and AS let Frank win the stage. Those three are the best climbers and with two great climbs in the Alps I wouldn't say they have bad strategy yet.

When they're ahead like they are not, they have a slightly different strategy, but I think their thought is that at some point the real climbers (Basso, Contador, Sanchez) have to attack Cadel because he is a better TT'er than they are. When the attack comes, Cadel won't be able to hang and they won't have to do the work because they can just suck a wheel away from Evans.

If it ends up Stage 18 and Cadel is still a couple seconds up on Andy, I'm positive Andy and Frank will attack.

 

[montagna lunga]

Again, saying these brothers "take turns attacking" makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. Calling what they're doing (all of "the contenders", not just AS & FS) "attacking" is just plain sad. That style of "racing" was at one time only tolerated in match sprints on the track. Honestly, THESE guys call the ultimate in lazy "professional" or "world-class" or "GC-contender" and most fans sign up for that??

Again I say "PFFT!" It's like miss and out with no risk of being pulled...

If there were a chorus in the background, they'd all be singing tenor. And since there ARE choruses being sung, you can guess what I think of the choir/fans (f.w.i.w.)i

 

[Parrulo]

How do you rate Kim Andersen as tactician..... horrible?

we are talking about a guy that last friday after the stage said samu was no threat to the overall. . . .

 

[goggalor]

Sanchez, Voeckler and Vanendert were the only happy ones after todays stage. Basso was ****ed that every time he moved to the front to set a tempo someone put in a half-arsed attack. Evans was upset with the Schlecks looking to him to pull after Samu went. Contador has sh*t legs so all he can do is watch the others waste mountain top finishes by racing conservatively, when what he wants to do is launch a 7 W/kg attack from the base. The Schlecks realised they got basically nothing out of the Pyrenees. In an interview Fränk said he was happy with the day, but he sure wasn't smiling. He also said that Leopard Trek showed that they are the strongest team, and that the Schleck brothers are the only ones who ride. Maybe Samu will shut him up in Grenoble.

 

[scullster46]

Andy COULD lose 1:45 in the ITT to Contador, but I seriously doubt it. Last year he was in the virtual yellow at the midway point. His TT is a lot better than it was two years ago.

So he doesn't need any more time on Contador. He needs maybe 30-45 on Evans before the TT. Evans gets a lot of credit for his TT, but he couldn't pull back Sastre a couple years ago and he won't pull back Andy or Frank if they have a minute or so on him.

Contadors ITT last year was horrendous for him. Yes Andy most likely was a bit better, but that was the primary reason that it was so close. There will obviously be questions about how well contador can tt with his knee, however it is almost guaranteed that schleck will lose time to all the other contenders.

Even so, if there is any chance that Andy could lose that much to Contador, then he needs to attack. Other wise he is just playing with fire, and one puncture or a bad day in the tt and its over. If he had the form to take time from Contador and Evans on the last few stages, he should have taken it. If he loses the tour there won't be any excuses this time around.

 

[maxmartin]

he actually said only him, his brother and Basso are trying to race, others are just want to suck the wheel

Sanchez, Voeckler and Vanendert were the only happy ones after todays stage. Basso was ****ed that every time he moved to the front to set a tempo someone put in a half-arsed attack. Evans was upset with the Schlecks looking to him to pull after Samu went. Contador has sh*t legs so all he can do is watch the others waste mountain top finishes by racing conservatively, when what he wants to do is launch a 7 W/kg attack from the base. The Schlecks realised they got basically nothing out of the Pyrenees. In an interview Fränk said he was happy with the day, but he sure wasn't smiling. He also said that Leopard Trek showed that they are the strongest team, and that the Schleck brothers are the only ones who ride. Maybe Samu will shut him up in Grenoble.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Andy COULD lose 1:45 in the ITT to Contador, but I seriously doubt it. Last year he was in the virtual yellow at the midway point. His TT is a lot better than it was two years ago.

Was that not the Tour where Andy lost 40+ seconds to Contador in a prologue that was less than 10K?

People underestimate just how bad the Shreks can suck at ITTs.

 

[ggusta]

It's pretty disgusting to see this kind of lynch mob mentality which has developed on this board. As far as I can see, Frank is the only one of the top guys to gain anything significant in the Pyrenees and Andy has taken time on last year's winner on BOTH of the big stages.

Of course, we know for sure that each of you, when in the amount of pain that Frank and Andy would have been in after 2 weeks of cycling and 180km worth of brutal climbing, would have just attacked all the way up Plateau de Beille.

This is a message board after all. Do we actually have to play the 'You don't have to a Whale to play drums on Moby **** but you should be John Bonham' card? Really? REALLY? Don't make me go there. You know I will.

Serious question: Who came up with this plan? As according to Voigt this idiocy was pre-meditated.

 

[thehog]

Basso on CyclingNews:

"I think that to make a difference, you shouldn't attack when there are still twenty riders in the group. You need to thin the group down to four or five," Basso said at the summit. "I think that if Andy and Fränk want to try and drop Cadel Evans and the others, they need to start their forcing earlier on the climbs, otherwise it will be difficult."

 

[jobiwan]

If Contador attacks, Andy will follow, work with him to get his gap, and win the Tour. So I hope Contador attacks.

If Andy is made to get the gap himself, he's going to have a hard time. But he can still do it.

If the brothers can race in the Alps like they did in '08 Alpe d'Huez or '09 Le Grand Bornand, they'll win.
If not, Evans or Sanchez are looking mighty good at the moment.

 

[Cimber]

Basso on CyclingNews:

"I think that to make a difference, you shouldn't attack when there are still twenty riders in the group. You need to thin the group down to four or five," Basso said at the summit. "I think that if Andy and Fränk want to try and drop Cadel Evans and the others, they need to start their forcing earlier on the climbs, otherwise it will be difficult."

And in order to do that your should stop wasting your team in stupid ways.

If Contador had been 100% fit jesus, navarro, Porte and CAS would rip te peloton apart in the bottom of the climb with a blistering pace. I just hape Contador recovers so we can see that in the alps. I doubt he will recover well it enough to be his normal self, though.

 

[ggusta]

Credit goes to avernicola from that Spanish forum:

OUTSTANDING

God, I wish my spanish was just a little better. They must have just come to life today like they just got tased while doing meth.