Sepp Kuss... The 3 GT monster

[Rackham]

By the way, whilst the clinical aspect is certainly something (& yes, Kuss has made big improvements over the past year), one area where he has also improved is tactically.

A couple of years ago when he was leader of Jumbo's Catalunya team, he went way too early in an MTF & got demolished by Adam Yates (back when Jumbo was testing his leadership capabilities in one week races). Compare that to stage 6 of the 2023 Vuelta on Javalambre, i.e. he let some of the other riders attack whilst he sat back & watched before launching his decisive move at the right moment.

It was something I noticed because I've been watching Jumbo very attentively for many years now. Kuss used to be totally lost on his own when he was fighting for his own chances but now he's much smarter... & obviously stronger (obviously benefitted from years of Jumbo knowhow there). And he's now too strong to be a domestique tbh considering the only riders I'd say are definitely stronger than him right now in a GT are Vinge, Rog & Pog.

 

[AmRacer]

let some of the other riders attack whilst he sat back

It was JV's plan, not his own tactics.

 

[Red Rick]

By the way, whilst the clinical aspect is certainly something (& yes, Kuss has made big improvements over the past year), one area where he has also improved is tactically.

A couple of years ago when he was leader of Jumbo's Catalunya team, he went way too early in an MTF & got demolished by Adam Yates (back when Jumbo was testing his leadership capabilities in one week races). Compare that to stage 6 of the 2023 Vuelta on Javalambre, i.e. he let some of the other riders attack whilst he sat back & watched before launching his decisive move at the right moment.

It was something I noticed because I've been watching Jumbo very attentively for many years now. Kuss used to be totally lost on his own when he was fighting for his own chances but now he's much smarter... & obviously stronger (obviously benefitted from years of Jumbo knowhow there). And he's now too strong to be a domestique tbh considering the only riders I'd say are definitely stronger than him right now in a GT are Vinge, Rog & Pog.

He does just not get in shape that quickly in the season, so despite making a goal of being good in Catalunya he's just not great there.

He still does the patented blow up on Jebel Hafeet every year, but it's a sacrifice for the memes.

 

[Oldermanish]

It was JV's plan, not his own tactics.

They tend to be one in the same if there is an actual plan.

 

[pastronef]

well, I'd pay anything for Kuss to tweet some MAGA stuff like his compatriots Dygert and Simmons did and get the Jumbo thread absolutely hell blown to the sky

 

[Cookster15]

Wouldn’t that affect endurance/aerobic ability though, in that case?

Not necessarily. Genetic doping would enable a rider's genetic weakness to be improved without compromising his genetic strengths - a kind of designer build.

But in theory, the UCI passport could detect genetic doping. To make a rider climb and TT better you need more oxygen delivered to the muscles. Oxygen is transported via red blood cells. With genetic doping, like traditional oxygen vector doping, there would be an inexplicable variation in RBC counts compared to the base-line data for the rider.

But I do think genetic doping is far more likely than motors at JV. Not sure if this relates to Sepp Kuss though.

 

[Cookster15]

Very likely and fussing with genetic alteration isn't cheap or without risks. You think the rider would fund that?

It if happens at all it would be funded by the team.

 

[Nick2413]

Not necessarily. Genetic doping would enable a rider's genetic weakness to be improved without compromising his genetic strengths - a kind of designer build.

But in theory, the UCI passport could detect genetic doping. To make a rider climb and TT better you need more oxygen delivered to the muscles. Oxygen is transported via red blood cells. With genetic doping, like traditional oxygen vector doping, there would be an inexplicable variation in RBC counts compared to the base-line data for the rider.

But I do think genetic doping is far more likely than motors at JV. Not sure if this relates to Sepp Kuss though.

In some ways sure, but many qualities are trade offs like fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers. I also think mitochondrial and capillary density are limited by fiber type and other things etc, so it would be impossible to improve both at once for certain qualities.

 

[Cookster15]

In some ways sure, but many qualities are trade offs like fast vs slow twitch muscle fibers. I also think mitochondrial and capillary density are limited by fiber type and other things etc, so it would be impossible to improve both at once for certain qualities.

Normally yes but with genetic doping I am not sure that is right? Genetics are what determine the trade off between fast and slow twitch. So if you can ‘designer build’ a rider’s genetics maybe that trade off is less relevant?

Skeletal climbers which can rival the best TTs ever, even during the EPO era?

A Tour de France winner who can also dominate the classics?

It would be good if someone could find a study on this?

 

[Oldermanish]

It if happens at all it would be funded by the team.

Yeah....how? Added salary for future and elusive results? Even F1 doesn't spend without hard research. It would take a rider pursuing the risks individually and needing to manage all of the supporting added stress factors like increased hemotocrit values, etc. You can't add horsepower without airflow and that is detectable.
Unless this is pursued before a rider's first bio-passport is logged by whatever federation; it's unlikely to be used existing pro ranks without getting busted. That kind of program Russian, Chinese and Eastern bloc countries pursued on a national level as experimental until they had a cadre of performers to introduce to the Big Event is more likely and may actually be a thing. Pro tennis would be an ideally self protecting sport to do this, IMO.
Remember the number of Chinese Olympic runners supposedly benefitting from silkworm jizz or some explanation for breaking every women's running world record? The science certainly exists but it's not as simple as plugging in a bag of blood and dodging vampires.

 

[the delgados]

I love great story tellers, which is one of many reasons why I love Chris Horner -- aka Teflon Don.
Chris has always been the lone wolf who goes it alone, without support, to win races like la Vuelta. He and his wife recently shared their adorable chemistry with an audience full of approximately one thousand friends at a theatre, and the results were as expected: Horner loves to eat food from McDonalds.
So much so that his wife smuggled McDonalds into his hotel room at least ten times during the Vuelta! We're not talking blood bags here; we're talking McDonalds. It's amazing how his wife survived the perilous missions to smuggle food and defy team orders, especially considering the fact the team didn't even bother to bring his race bike to the race.
We learn that Chris Horner not only bought his own ticket to Spain well in advance of the Vuelta, he brought his training bike because, I guess he thought maybe the team wouldn't bring his racing bike. It's all a bit confusing as to why there was no communication with his team leading up to the race, but the point is Chris persevered, despite the odds.
Reason I bring this up in the Kuss thread is because he premised the presentation on the perceived lack of support for Kuss at the Vuelta. You see, Sepp triumphed despite the odds, just like Chris Horner. Check it out.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCq8bulagj0&t=5s

 

[Cookster15]

I love great story tellers, which is one of many reasons why I love Chris Horner -- aka Teflon Don.
Chris has always been the lone wolf who goes it alone, without support, to win races like la Vuelta. He and his wife recently shared their adorable chemistry with an audience full of approximately one thousand friends at a theatre, and the results were as expected: Horner loves to eat food from McDonalds.
So much so that his wife smuggled McDonalds into his hotel room at least ten times during the Vuelta! We're not talking blood bags here; we're talking McDonalds. It's amazing how his wife survived the perilous missions to smuggle food and defy team orders, especially considering the fact the team didn't even bother to bring his race bike to the race.
We learn that Chris Horner not only bought his own ticket to Spain well in advance of the Vuelta, he brought his training bike because, I guess he thought maybe the team wouldn't bring his racing bike. It's all a bit confusing as to why there was no communication with his team leading up to the race, but the point is Chris persevered, despite the odds.
Reason I bring this up in the Kuss thread is because he premised the presentation on the perceived lack of support for Kuss at the Vuelta. You see, Sepp triumphed despite the odds, just like Chris Horner. Check it out.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCq8bulagj0&t=5s

Teflon Don, LOL. Lets hope Sepp Kuss doesn't follow the rest of Chris Horner's (non existent) career after he won (stole?) the Vuelta. Horner is a very popular guy but the 2013 Vuelta dropping Nibali on the Angliru was embarrassing to the sport. So was his transformation before that - leaving Lotto and joining Vino's team - at already 37 years of age.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Teflon Don, LOL. Lets hope Sepp Kuss doesn't follow the rest of Chris Horner's (non existent) career after he won (stole?) the Vuelta. Horner is a very popular guy but the 2013 Vuelta dropping Nibali on the Angliru was embarrassing to the sport. So was his transformation before that - leaving Lotto and joining Vino's team - at already 37 years of age.

I wouldn't say there's much risk of that.

Horner was 41 years old and out of contract at the time of his Vuelta win, and expected to be paid like a GT winner on a new contract. Nobody bought what he was selling at the time given his age and contract status, and nobody was willing to take a risk on him at the price he was asking due to the expectation being that he had little left in the tank, and that whatever he did have was suspicious. His career was pretty non-existent because he then had to keep lowering his demands until Lampre decided it worth taking the plunge on him, then got held out of the Vuelta because of low cortisol readings, and then, being about to turn 43 and with no results backing up his Vuelta win, nobody bar domestic teams wanted him anymore.

Kuss is still under 30, and while winning the Vuelta was a surprise, he was the third strongest rider in the race - it's just that he was given the Giovannetti early race gain, and while he proved that he was demonstrably stronger than anybody not on his team so should be respected as a threat by any and all opposition in future, by the time Jumbo were instructed to stop battling amongst themselves, we had also seen that both Vingegaard and Roglič were stronger riders than Kuss in the race. Kuss was also already contracted for 2024 prior to the Vuelta, so while he has more than earned himself a raise, he will also have to back it up and prove himself as a marked commodity before his contract is due too, so unless he has an unfortunate injury or something that causes him to miss season goals, then his next contract's value will be set on a much larger body of work than the restricted view Horner was taking on his own value in his contract demands..

Even if Sepp were to fail miserably now being afforded a leadership type status (more realistically, he's a 1B option for a team like Jumbo rather than a joint leader with a guy like Vingegaard around; he would be a solid leader for pretty much any other team in the péloton, but then if he were riding for any other team in the péloton he probably doesn't win the Vuelta given the circumstances), he'd still get a pretty good next contract as either an elite domestique or as a reclamation project of a GC leader. He's paradoxically still somewhat unproven as a GC rider despite having won a Grand Tour, because he won thanks to a combination of being afforded time in a break, and team orders, and wasn't the team leader until the internal team battle created a backlash. And perhaps because Jumbo learned a bit from Team Sky's error in 2011 in having Froome domestique for Wiggins while wearing the red jersey costing them the win (of course they got away with it in the long run with Cobo's DQ but that wasn't the case for some eight years). And also he has seldom raced for himself even in shorter races since that Tour of Utah which is pre-pandemic; he's usually targeted races he's been set to domestique at, and the races he has been allowed to lead have often therefore been things like the UAE Tour rather than him proving his mettle at races like Suisse, the Dauphiné, Itzulia, Paris-Nice or any of the other major short stage races, because he's been preferred by Jumbo - seemingly with his agreement or even request - as the domestique du jour for the stars, rather than a secondary contender or a leader for the B-races.

 

[the delgados]

Also, Kuss probably won't spend New Year's eve texting to the world about the lack of love shown after winning a grand tour.

 

[Rob5091]

Kuss to Clásica Jaén Paraíso Interior? Will be fun viewing ...

 

[ManicJack]

Kuss to Clásica Jaén Paraíso Interior? Will be fun viewing ...

Is that race broadcast in Spain?

 

[Rob5091]

Is that race broadcast in Spain?

Should be somewhere - I've watched it live the past two years so maybe Eurosport have picked it up as some big names have signed up for some training on the sterrato - see official website at
https://clasicajaen.com/

RTVE had it last year and Eurosport.

 

[houtdffan]

Teflon Don, LOL. Lets hope Sepp Kuss doesn't follow the rest of Chris Horner's (non existent) career after he won (stole?) the Vuelta. Horner is a very popular guy but the 2013 Vuelta dropping Nibali on the Angliru was embarrassing to the sport. So was his transformation before that - leaving Lotto and joining Vino's team - at already 37 years of age.

Vino wasn't there when Horner joined

That was Team Bruyneel... (USDiscoTanaRadioTrek) even worse

 

[Rob5091]

Chocolate Kuss!

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Chocolate Kuss!

Most unfortunate for Kuss, he's apparently sinking into a chocolate cake?

 

[Rob5091]

Kuss for all 3 GT's this year - to win that is!

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Not a chance. There will be no Vingegaard and Rog to babysit him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This year he will need an extra cocktail of drugs. He will be the leader in the Tour and needs to save Visma's season.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

This year he will need and extra cocktail of drugs. He will be the leader in the Tour and needs to save Visma's season.

My sense is that it's going to be another american now. Jorgensen was pulled from Paris-Roubaix at the last minute. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in some crazy form in June.

 

[repre]

My sense is that it's going to be another american now. Jorgensen was pulled from Paris-Roubaix at the last minute. I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up in some crazy form in June.

Nah, he is not capable to win tdf unless they do froomey with him