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Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

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Lizzie has said a fair bit in the last few months that isn't wholly complimentary about British Cycling and its management, but her words carry quite significant weight here. The reason being, Lizzie is one of BC's chosen ones. The one they tried to rewrite history around, the one they marginalized Cooke and Pooley for the benefit of. They pretended Nicole hadn't won Olympic or World championships gold in order to present Armitstead as a kind of pioneer after Richmond.

Varnish was on her way out of the team and that was how it all began. Houvenaghel was dropped by the team and so the inner circle and the fans can dismiss her claims as motivated by that. Likewise Pooley, and especially Nicole Cooke, who is admittedly a forthright and potentially abrasive personality but who got stepped over, stepped on and held back every step of her way by British Cycling. The number of accounts - plus the fact that BC's mistreatment of Cooke and Pooley (and to a lesser extent Houvenaghel) was hardly secret, just that it went even further than we thought - meant we got a clear picture of what was going on. But as long as it was people who could be spun as having an axe to grind, there would be ammunition to dismiss their misgivings. Even if, as Nicole did, they presented their case formally in front of a select panel, with specific time and date anecdotes and supporting documentary evidence.

But with Lizzie, that's not possible. She has had the most outwardly visible support from BC of anybody in the women's road team. They helped her fund her case to get off the ban for the missed tests, they threw out the team's self-penned book of tactics at the eleventh hour to focus on a new unrehearsed plan entirely based on Lizzie (and placed all the blame on Nicole when it didn't work), they focus each and every major national team road race around her (to the extent that, with the Rio road race known to be one of the most mountainous women's one day races in years, the very first thing that Sutton said about Emma Pooley - arguably the greatest climber of her generation among women (mainly as she's more consistent and versatile than Abbott, however in the long one-off climbs Mara tended to get the better of her, however Mara always struggled with one-day races while Emma had much more race smarts and more than the one weapon) - returning from retirement was that it was good because "she'll add more strong legs to support Lizzie", because the idea of racing for anybody else didn't even cross his mind once).

What I'm getting at is not intended as another dig at Lizzie but to illustrate, she's a person of precisely the kind of position and status who, among the men's team, have been coming out saying things along the lines of "I never saw any such thing. They were always great to me". One of those who's benefited most from the culture at BC. She's protected the names of the people involved so it can't be considered axe-grinding, and as somebody who has been so prominent in the British Cycling revolution PR she can't be considered an outsider, embittered, or attention-seeking, and so her words cannot be dismissed as such, even by the most ardently defensive pro-British Cycling Betonköpfe.

And yet she's not going the same way as the likes of Thomas and Wiggins of defending the team. She's joining the chorus of critics, who are sharing stories of a pretty horrible culture for anybody to be in, let alone for a young woman. She may not have the litany of specific events and occurrences that Nicole had in her presentation to the select committee to show the mistreatment of the women's team, but the story she relates is thoroughly unpleasant - as a 19-year-old effective neo-pro at the time, it reeks of the worst combination of sports cultures - the incident may come across to some as relatively minor, but it still suggests both rookie-hazing and casual sexism, treating a young member of the women's team as a toy for their own amusement. The other question that it raises is, Armitstead was the only woman in the room with the whole men's team, and had been woken up to participate. So why was only one woman awoken, and why Lizzie? Had they tried to wake up others on this particular night, but Lizzie was the only one who didn't feel able to tell them to go away? Were they singling her out for this treatment? Or were similar things happening on other nights to other members of the women's team, being forced into outwardly-innocent yet uncomfortable control situations alone among numerous men who thought nothing of treating the young female riders as a plaything? None of the answers that can be given will be pleasant.
 
May 26, 2010
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yaco said:
Sport and in this case cycling is a microcosm of society where bullying is rampant in all institutions of life - Society has a poor history in willingly acknowledging bullying and acting on bullying - I chuckle when people rail about taxpayer's money spent on cycling - Reckon there is more extensive cases of bullying involving taxpayers dollars.

So?

Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't mean people's bad behaviour is acceptable.

Sutton and BC bullied people. Crying that there are worst things out there is pitiful.
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
She may not have the litany of specific events and occurrences that Nicole had in her presentation to the select committee to show the mistreatment of the women's team, but the story she relates is thoroughly unpleasant - as a 19-year-old effective neo-pro at the time, it reeks of the worst combination of sports cultures - the incident may come across to some as relatively minor, but it still suggests both rookie-hazing and casual sexism, treating a young member of the women's team as a toy for their own amusement.
Important point to note is that she wasn't 19, that's an error. The team was Cervélo, not (as her being 19 would suggest) Halfords.
 
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Benotti69 said:
yaco said:
Sport and in this case cycling is a microcosm of society where bullying is rampant in all institutions of life - Society has a poor history in willingly acknowledging bullying and acting on bullying - I chuckle when people rail about taxpayer's money spent on cycling - Reckon there is more extensive cases of bullying involving taxpayers dollars.

So?

Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't mean people's bad behaviour is acceptable.

Sutton and BC bullied people. Crying that there are worst things out there is pitiful.

Where did I post its acceptable ? My post is how society can be and is selective in how they acknowledge or handle cases of bullying - And individuals as a rule and institutions as a fact, pay lip service to bullying - For example, Educational authorities have done little or nothing to combat bullying in schools which continues to manifest itself in later life.
 
May 26, 2010
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yaco said:
Benotti69 said:
yaco said:
Sport and in this case cycling is a microcosm of society where bullying is rampant in all institutions of life - Society has a poor history in willingly acknowledging bullying and acting on bullying - I chuckle when people rail about taxpayer's money spent on cycling - Reckon there is more extensive cases of bullying involving taxpayers dollars.

So?

Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't mean people's bad behaviour is acceptable.

Sutton and BC bullied people. Crying that there are worst things out there is pitiful.

Where did I post its acceptable ? My post is how society can be and is selective in how they acknowledge or handle cases of bullying - And individuals as a rule and institutions as a fact, pay lip service to bullying - For example, Educational authorities have done little or nothing to combat bullying in schools which continues to manifest itself in later life.

This is the clinic not an educational forum, going off topic to point that other institutions have bullying cultures is not relevant to cycling and the clinic or Sutton.

Sutton is a sexist bully as many who trained under him have pointed out. Looking for other bullying to somehow appease what Sutton has done appears to somehow saying it happens elsewhere so whats the fuss.

#fail.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
yaco said:
Benotti69 said:
yaco said:
Sport and in this case cycling is a microcosm of society where bullying is rampant in all institutions of life - Society has a poor history in willingly acknowledging bullying and acting on bullying - I chuckle when people rail about taxpayer's money spent on cycling - Reckon there is more extensive cases of bullying involving taxpayers dollars.

So?

Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't mean people's bad behaviour is acceptable.

Sutton and BC bullied people. Crying that there are worst things out there is pitiful.

Where did I post its acceptable ? My post is how society can be and is selective in how they acknowledge or handle cases of bullying - And individuals as a rule and institutions as a fact, pay lip service to bullying - For example, Educational authorities have done little or nothing to combat bullying in schools which continues to manifest itself in later life.

This is the clinic not an educational forum, going off topic to point that other institutions have bullying cultures is not relevant to cycling and the clinic or Sutton.

Sutton is a sexist bully as many who trained under him have pointed out. Looking for other bullying to somehow appease what Sutton has done appears to somehow saying it happens elsewhere so whats the fuss.

#fail.

Maybe discuss your worries with moderators - Many sports are discussed in this part of the forum and of course this spins off at times into societal issues - Pity you failed to address my argument.
 
May 26, 2010
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yaco said:
Maybe discuss your worries with moderators - Many sports are discussed in this part of the forum and of course this spins off at times into societal issues - Pity you failed to address my argument.

No worries here and no arguments there. :)
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
Benotti69 said:
yaco said:
Benotti69 said:
yaco said:
Sport and in this case cycling is a microcosm of society where bullying is rampant in all institutions of life - Society has a poor history in willingly acknowledging bullying and acting on bullying - I chuckle when people rail about taxpayer's money spent on cycling - Reckon there is more extensive cases of bullying involving taxpayers dollars.

So?

Just because it happens elsewhere doesn't mean people's bad behaviour is acceptable.

Sutton and BC bullied people. Crying that there are worst things out there is pitiful.

Where did I post its acceptable ? My post is how society can be and is selective in how they acknowledge or handle cases of bullying - And individuals as a rule and institutions as a fact, pay lip service to bullying - For example, Educational authorities have done little or nothing to combat bullying in schools which continues to manifest itself in later life.

This is the clinic not an educational forum, going off topic to point that other institutions have bullying cultures is not relevant to cycling and the clinic or Sutton.

Sutton is a sexist bully as many who trained under him have pointed out. Looking for other bullying to somehow appease what Sutton has done appears to somehow saying it happens elsewhere so whats the fuss.

#fail.

Maybe discuss your worries with moderators - Many sports are discussed in this part of the forum and of course this spins off at times into societal issues - Pity you failed to address my argument.

the bullying as schools I presume you mean inter-children bullying...at BC the analogy would be more akin to the teachers and the head teacher doing the bullying...so, apples and pears.....
 
Jul 21, 2016
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TourOfSardinia said:

What a strange article. Not sure what to make of it.

It's perfectly legit for him to support Sutton from his experience alone, but it says nothing about other riders experiences.

And cuddles and care bears is exactly what he needed and received with his mocha-choca-latte tete-a-tete with Sutton.

And when have any of the riders who have spoken up about bullying said they wanted it to be all ''cuddly care bears''?

'Tis a bit odd...
 
IMO the issue Jess Varnish is one of abuse of authority by Sutton as he did not like what was said by her to the media.
A guy like Sutton while capable to understanding the issues of men like Tennant may not capable of understanding women or para-athletes. This is why he should have being in charge of the mens team only. This should have been the job of Brailsford and Cookson and they failed to see his limitations. The funding quota, the time scheduling of the track, the personnel all should have been separated under different administrators.
Having said that, success is not possible without a military style discipline which means a few bruised egos.
 
It means absolutely nothing what the likes of Tennant or Hoy or Wiggins say in regards to never being badly treated themselves. They weren't bullied obviously. A real pity they have no regard for those who were. Sad actually.
 
Jun 4, 2015
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IndianCyclist said:
IMO the issue Jess Varnish is one of abuse of authority by Sutton as he did not like what was said by her to the media.
A guy like Sutton while capable to understanding the issues of men like Tennant may not capable of understanding women or para-athletes. This is why he should have being in charge of the mens team only. This should have been the job of Brailsford and Cookson and they failed to see his limitations. The funding quota, the time scheduling of the track, the personnel all should have been separated under different administrators.
Having said that, success is not possible without a military style discipline which means a few bruised egos.

Military discipline is underpinned by generic rules, one key issue of the complainants is that the only rule of law was the whim of Sutton.

It's becoming clear that he is selectively capable of understanding the issues of people .i.e. the ones he favours.

'While he does have an understanding of cycling, it isn’t a role to look after his mates, have his favourites and make decisions in an arbitrary and capricious manner. There is a lot more that is required to be in that position and Shane didn’t have that.’ - Nicole Cooke.
 
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Publication of the UK Sport independent enquiry report is now slated for May (once the Maxwellisation process is complete). The leaks suggest it will be highly critical of Brailsford and Sutton

Brailsford will likely respond with a tear in the eye/wobbling bottom lip press conference like Tony Blair did after the Chilcot report was released (Brailsford and Blair shame the same PR man after all). The response will mostly be howls of derision (a la Blair post-Chilcot). But Brailsford will ride it out. He's got the Sky gig and the Murdochs have got his back (they stayed loyal to Rebekah Brookes post-phone hacking after all)

More interesting is where that will leave Sutton. He won't get the Team GB track squad job back. The Aussie track squad job has been filled and it's hard to imagine the French employing him. And Sutton is chippy. He won't like being hung out to dry
 
Feb 21, 2017
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Craigee said:
It means absolutely nothing what the likes of Tennant or Hoy or Wiggins say in regards to never being badly treated themselves. They weren't bullied obviously. A real pity they have no regard for those who were. Sad actually.

I agree, It's almost like saying "I've never been shot with a pistol" implies that no one else has. It might be safest to take all it at simple data points, and in the meantime we get to see who the golden boys/girls were for Sutton and BC.
 

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