Should Theo Bos be suspended for this?

[Buffalo Soldier]

Altough I don't think it was intentional, I still think he shoud be punished for this. Such inresponsible driving doesn't belong in pro cycling.

 

[Greg Johnson]

Okay, so I've watched it about 400 more times this afternoon and this is my thoughts (which, funnily enough, is what I felt the very first time I saw it).

I believe it unfolds in two stages. The first is he's pushed towards the barrier and places his hand on Impey - either to stabalise himself a little or say 'oi, give me a litte breathing space or this isn't going to end well for anyone'.

It then seems to move to something more aggresive where he grabs and pulls. I'm not sure what he was thinking, but while I believe it genuinely started out without the intent of doing any damage, that intent evolved very quickly into something else.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[Bjarki]

Wasn't intentional. If he had wanted Impey to crash he would have flung him the other way.. out of his own way..
Seemed to me they were fighting for a too narrow space. Bos uses his arm to ward Impey off, which seems to work.. Impey moves to the right, but then collides with the orange/red rider on his right and is further put out of balance. That's when he gets send to the barrier again right in front of Bos and crashes.

Doesn't seem Bos had anything to do with his crash apart from his initial pushing about, which all riders did at that stage. Bos said he fell over one of those border-thingies. And I don't know whether his bike hit Impey or whether it was the border itself causing Impey to crash, but it was not Bos' hand. There was no force involved there, despite on how intentional it appeared to be.

Armstrong should mind his own business btw. As the 'leader' of the peloton you should abstain from passing judgements over others, especially when you weren't there in the first place. You'd think he'd learn that lesson after the Contador-affair, but apparently not.

 

[Maneblusser25]

dangerous and unreasonable

Whatever the Flying Dutchman's intentions, his behaviour was totally out of line and unacceptable. Riders have been punished for far lesser offences than this. He shows a total lack of knowledge about the conduct during road sprinting, and still applies the kamikaze-like moves typical for tracksprinters. He's got a lot to learn and in the meantime should at least get a severe reprimand or couple of weeks ban during which he can study some footage on "How to ride a clean and proper sprint"...

 

[mr. tibbs]

Bjarki: I think you should watch dimspace's clip again. As dificult as it is for us all to believe, Bos clearly grabbed a handful of yellow and slung Impey into the barrier.

The contact between Impey & Orange Guy barely seemed to affect the two riders. It seems to me that Bos caused the crash by trying to nose up into a space that didn't exist and then grabbing jersey and "throwing" Impey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8K_7bJQaaI

Just watching it makes me shudder

 

[LugHugger]

Wasn't intentional. If he had wanted Impey to crash he would have flung him the other way.. out of his own way..
Seemed to me they were fighting for a too narrow space. Bos uses his arm to ward Impey off, which seems to work.. Impey moves to the right, but then collides with the orange/red rider on his right and is further put out of balance. That's when he gets send to the barrier again right in front of Bos and crashes.

Doesn't seem Bos had anything to do with his crash apart from his initial pushing about, which all riders did at that stage. Bos said he fell over one of those border-thingies. And I don't know whether his bike hit Impey or whether it was the border itself causing Impey to crash, but it was not Bos' hand. There was no force involved there, despite on how intentional it appeared to be.

Armstrong should mind his own business btw. As the 'leader' of the peloton you should abstain from passing judgements over others, especially when you weren't there in the first place. You'd think he'd learn that lesson after the Contador-affair, but apparently not.

What a crock Put away your orange-tinted spectacles and join the real world.

 

[davidw]

In the 2002 Giro Francesco Casagrande foolishly rode Freddie Garcia into the barriers on an uphill finish and was banned from the race. But Casagrade had both hands on the handlebars and stated they tangled while Garcia was trying to pass him on the inside. Casagrande was in 4th position and contending for GC at that time. they tossed him anyway. Still, he didn't grab the guy's jersey.

Actually, it was not an uphill finish, but at the GPM in Castelnuovo, in the province of Padova. I remember because I was watching the race just down the hill from the GPM (and thus missed out on the action). It was an odd climb, placed at the very beginning of a flat stage in order to show off the Giro on the local roads - indeed, Cipollini was leading the pack up the hill where I was watching!

Also, didn't Bettini (more or less) crash some guy a year or two ago? Still though, no hands came off the bars.

By the way, anyone who wants to check in on what those guys are writing on twitter can find it here:

http://www.bikechatter.com

Or of course you can just follow them directly via the twitter web site by following the links from my site.

Ciao,
Dave

 

[Anonymous]

Doesn't seem Bos had anything to do with his crash apart from his initial pushing about, which all riders did at that stage. Bos said he fell over one of those border-thingies. And I don't know whether his bike hit Impey or whether it was the border itself causing Impey to crash, but it was not Bos' hand. There was no force involved there, despite on how intentional it appeared to be.

as someone else has said.. look at my edit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8K_7bJQaaI

now i for one dont want to beleive that a rider would deliberately set out to hurt another but i cannot tell my brain to ignore what i am seeing...

at 3 seconds.. bos's hand is on impeys lower back. this shot looks much like any other pushing and shoving match in the pelaton, perhaps steadying himself
at 4 seconds it moves closer up his back and grabs a piece of shirt
at 5 seconds it changes from a simple grabbing for stability, in my mind to something much different
at 5.5 seconds.. his arm clearly flexes (and bear in mind i have zoomed in even closer at home) and there is movement in his arm muscles as he pushes impey
at 6 seconds, he appears to tilt left slightly at the same time as extending his arm and pushing impey in front of him and to the left, it changes from a pushing motion into a dragging motion where he has a grip on his shirt..
of more concern is the fact he does not release the shirt until impey hits the barrier..

bear in mind this is slowed down and obviously the timing isnt relevant, but he clearly doesnt release the shirt until impey is prone..

i dont want to beleive what i see, but i find it impossible to not thing the guy is a complete and utter nutjob...

 

[Anonymous]

on his webpage (google translate is rubbish)

"The Tour of Turkey on Sunday for the Rabo Continental Team finished with a smile and a tear. Theo was in the final kilometer with the ranking leader Daryl Impey involved in a serious fall. Both reached the finish with delays, but they had the time of the winner because the fall in the last three miles took place. Impey was therefore eventually first.

Theo seemed SouthAfrican to fall to the ground to attract. It came two riders in the fence right. Theo ran a few grazes on. Impey some bleeding wounds. It is for research into the hospital. Nico Verhoeven team spoke shortly after the jury about the incident, but saw no grounds for a case against Theo starts. "There is no question of the fact that Theo on the mat would be created. Since we know nothing of."

Nico Verhoeven defended his sprinter after too. "It seems the TV images from the helicopter in fact, that Theo Impey draws to the ground, I will not deny it. But the truth is yet different. Impey threatened Theo clamp towards the fence. Weert that Theo with his arm. Impey gets out of balance is even more the part of Theo and then there is no stopping on. There is no been aware of the features. " That reading did the team not even the jury for consideration. Verhoeven: "That was not because they made absolutely no point."

Verhoeven am sure that the reading of his rider's right. "I have no doubt. Theo is just the ranking leader to the ground and that knowing that he himself will fall heavily ...... If cross the world together. Theo is also a pure sprinter and fair as I him so far have been. And even TV images are not always crystal clear. ""

so he claims that impey fell over after losing his balance.. and that the tv images, although they admit make it looks like he drags him over, are in fact lying..

Wasn't intentional. If he had wanted Impey to crash he would have flung him the other way.. out of his own way..
Seemed to me they were fighting for a too narrow space. Bos uses his arm to ward Impey off, which seems to work.. Impey moves to the right, but then collides with the orange/red rider on his right and is further put out of balance. That's when he gets send to the barrier again right in front of Bos and crashes.

Doesn't seem Bos had anything to do with his crash apart from his initial pushing about, which all riders did at that stage. Bos said he fell over one of those border-thingies. And I don't know whether his bike hit Impey or whether it was the border itself causing Impey to crash, but it was not Bos' hand. There was no force involved there, despite on how intentional it appeared to be.

Armstrong should mind his own business btw. As the 'leader' of the peloton you should abstain from passing judgements over others, especially when you weren't there in the first place. You'd think he'd learn that lesson after the Contador-affair, but apparently not.

can i nominate this for most ridiculous post on the forum..
wether or not it was intentional or not, that post is insane...

can we have an out of competition test done on bjarki please...

 

[Anonymous]

Wasn't intentional. If he had wanted Impey to crash he would have flung him the other way.. out of his own way..
Seemed to me they were fighting for a too narrow space. Bos uses his arm to ward Impey off, which seems to work.. Impey moves to the right, but then collides with the orange/red rider on his right and is further put out of balance. That's when he gets send to the barrier again right in front of Bos and crashes.

Doesn't seem Bos had anything to do with his crash apart from his initial pushing about, which all riders did at that stage. Bos said he fell over one of those border-thingies. And I don't know whether his bike hit Impey or whether it was the border itself causing Impey to crash, but it was not Bos' hand. There was no force involved there, despite on how intentional it appeared to be.

Armstrong should mind his own business btw. As the 'leader' of the peloton you should abstain from passing judgements over others, especially when you weren't there in the first place. You'd think he'd learn that lesson after the Contador-affair, but apparently not.

can i nominate this for most ridiculous post on the forum..
wether or not it was intentional or not, that post is insane...

can we have an out of competition test done on bjarki please...

 

[Bjarki]

I value Bos' word when he says he had absolutely no intent of dragging Impey down with him. Logic speaks against it, so does Bos' personality.
Video evidence is important, but doesn't always reveal the whole truth. In cases like these it's best to remain sceptical and not make a verdict before it is 100% clear what really happened.

Almost every incident in cycling is an accident. I believe this one was as well.

 

[Bala Verde]

as someone else has said.. look at my edit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8K_7bJQaaI

at 5s, you will also see that Impey leans towards the right, which probably indicates that Bos tried to push him to the right, to make some space as he is almost in the fences. Then on 6s, Bos goes down, perhaps because he has hit a part of the fence.

When Bos goes down, Impey goes down.

It seems quite ridiculous that someone who is boxed in between the fences and another rider, wants to 'drag' that rider towards the fences and through his own racing line, to make space. This means that he basically throws someone in front of him in his own line of riding, and torpedoing himself.

You must have the brain of a pea to do that (if Bos did think that he could pick up Impey the way only superman could, at such speeds and then drop him in the fences, he might actually be pea brained)

It seems more like an accident. Even if Impey felt Bos pulling, it depends on when he pulled. Because if you go down, first with your arm trying to fend someone off, that arm might instinctively turn into a grabbing arm. When you feel you are going down, the first thing anyone would do is to grab something to hang onto...

I could be wrong though

 

[franciep10]

Wow I think he should be suspended for the rest of the year but not banned for life. I don't think it was intentional I think hes just an imbecile.

 

[Kazistuta]

Fact: Bos puts his hand on Impeys back

Personal thought: To make Impey aware that he's there

Fact: Bos moves his arm further up Impeys back
Fact: Impey moves slightly to the right, towards the red (Contentpolis?) rider, and makes contact in his side

Personal thought: Impey becomes aware of Bos and therefore instinctly moves slightly the other way - maybe helped a bit by the "push" from Bos. He can't move anymore to the right as it is

Fact: Bos still has contact with a grab onto Impeys jersey, nearing the shoulder, while Impey "bounces" slightly back from the red rider

Personal thought: Impey obviously has to protect his position. To the right, the red rider was first in line to the road, to the left Impey is first in line compared to Bos.

Fact: Bos, still hanging onto Impey, swerves a bit to the left and is getting really near the barrier - is in fact touching the barrier with his left shoulder at 0.06. He doesn't let go of Impey and clearly drags him down in front of him

Personal thought: When I saw this again (and again), someone might be right by saying Bos got tangled into the barrier feet and by instinct tried to hold himself up by hanging on to another rider. I actually feel that this was an accident, but it was clearly caused by Bos, and there's absolutely no excuse for hanging onto another rider, therefore causing him to crash this way. Impey was in fact first in line, therefore Bos should've backed off when he saw there wasn't room.

If that's enough to ban Theo Bos or something else, I don't know - because I believe the incident was with no "ill intent", but regardless the actions of the Dutchmen doesn't belong in a field sprint (or any sprint for that matter)....

 

[Anonymous]

im trying to work out in my head what my response would be if it wasnt bos, but cavendish, or zabel for instance..

see if it was abdoujap, id just be shrugging.. that guy was capable of crashing into himself..

at least weve all stopped talking about lances bloody hair test..

 

[Champions09]

" Innocent until proven guilty".... as the old proverb go,s, But in this case we can skip the jury even if the commissionaires have decided otherwise, and condemn Bos for the fool he is. With all the dirt cycling has gone through in the past one would think the higher powers that be, would hand out a hard and unforgiving punishment that fits the crime. With the Rasmussen issue behind them I don't think Robabank wants any more dirt, maybe they as a team under scrutiny should take further action....

 

[Anonymous]

well hes only in the continental squad on a 1 year contract.. i cant see him in any major races anytime soon..

i think in with the big lead out boys, haussler etc he would be pretty quickly told where to go... can you imagine big george putting up with that sort of behaviour...?

 

[Champions09]

Too true, Tom, Hausler, Erick even Rob Hunter would probably level the poor fellow as for Cav ? no I don't want to go down that road....

 

[CyclistAtLarge]

I have, in several Cat 4 and Cat 3 criteriums.



Yes, absolutely correct. And you want to be in the drops too so you can be as low as possible.



Grabbing another rider is always the wrong move. It won't keep you up, instead it will just bring you both down, as Bos so inelegantly demonstrated. This is why Bos was in the wrong.

Cat 4 is the biggest sketch in the world, and I've been in that situation a few times. The natural reaction if you really think you're in danger is to lock up on the brakes and usually get taken out from behind. Nobody ever takes their hands off the bars, that's suicide.

Assuming that you were dumb enough to half-wheel someone on the INSIDE line and you want to try to get out of it safely without taking out half the peloton, you just want to give up your position by scrubbing speed and get on the wheel that's about to push you out. I've seen Cat 4 scrubs do it, so there's no excuse for a professional rider not to.

 

[CyclistAtLarge]

" Innocent until proven guilty".... as the old proverb go,s, But in this case we can skip the jury even if the commissionaires have decided otherwise, and condemn Bos for the fool he is. With all the dirt cycling has gone through in the past one would think the higher powers that be, would hand out a hard and unforgiving punishment that fits the crime. With the Rasmussen issue behind them I don't think Robabank wants any more dirt, maybe they as a team under scrutiny should take further action....

Bos is doomed in the pro peloton, ban, tribunal, jury or not. Anyone that rides like that is going to get chopped so hard, over and over again. He'll have to fight for every wheel and every shred of position in the pack. He'll either end up the greatest pack rider ever, or get crashed out until he doesn't come back.

 

[Bikerider]

I have looked at this vidio over and over, and their is no question, he grabbed a handful of that riders jersey, why!!! Yes you touch riders that are getting to close, but have never seen anyone get a handful of some ones jersey before!!! You don't take your hands of your bars going into a srint finish at that speed. Why mention a madison throw, he was a track sprinter not a madison rider, no experiance at bunch racing. Theo says he can not rememember much, it happened in seconds,but he had time to remember to grab hold of someones jersey, and throw them forward, he says he wants to watch the vidio, would like to hear what he has to say about it. I really don't no what some people are watching. He says he crashed into the barriers, and was going down, why take an handfull of some ones jersey, and throw them forward. Surely you use your hands on the handle bars to try and get your balance, can not see why you grab some one, never seen anything like this before. Seen elbows and taking some ones lines, but never getting a handfull of some ones jersey, and can be seen to be throwng that rider forward,

 

[jimusan]

I can't fathom what people are seeing that convinces them to condemn Bos. I know people don't like trackies, but come on. He's not a cat 4, not a cat 3; stop comparing your weak *** race experience to this guy. He has raced at the highest speeds against the most physical opponents and knows what he is capable of.

Put your nooses back in the closet and stop sleeping with that old Postal jersey on.

 

[Nanosec Nialls]

This replay from the Eurosport tells a different tale to other vids I've seen today:
http://picasaweb.google.de/hokmann/ExportierteVideos#5326486090944553314 - 18sec

Impey got sandwiched between two riders way too close to the fence. I just don't know where Bos thought he could go riding so fast and one handed next to that crooked fence? The last 4km's of the tour was pathetic, three crashes??? unheard of in a "prestigious event". Accidents happen but why did Bos continue to hold onto Impey's shirt

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I thought Bos showed perfect Judo technique. He obviously trained very hard to pull that move.

 

[Bala Verde]

The only way this crash gets blown up out of proportions is because mr collarbone fracture - how did he fall again? somewhere near the start of a minor race in Spain - tw@tted about the incident.

When he speaks, everyone seems to listen even when p00p comes from his mouth. How often did he get boxed in in a sprint at such speed again? (As I recall, he lived by the expression 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen'.)

The result is enormous media exposure, and causes lots of people who have never seen a sprint in their lives before, making accusations about intentionally downing a fellow cyclist. This is what makes Rabo defend themselves, and that's fair enough. Bos will probably end up having a bad sprinters rep before he even accedes to the pro scene, but hey, he's got to live with that.

Most sprinters are speed devils by nature. They take huge risks, they know it, they love and they often brag about their recklessness. This obviously does not mean that every sprint should be dangerous, but terrifying accidents happen, especially at given speeds. One minor miscalculation, a gap that opens up, and then closes down in a split second, pushing and shoving... perhaps it was even a Bos rookie move, he hasn't done too many bunch sprints in his career. I still find it hard to believe that someone intentionally knocks someone off his bike, especially a Rabo, because they have seen whay happened to Kai Reus when he crashed.

Does anyone otherwise really think a pro contintental race's sprint and crash would have made the headlines in many papers...