Skil vs Vacan - The Showdown for the Last Licence

[therealtimshady]

how have greenedge got that many points so far - when they havent signed anyone half decent to be honest??

ag2r and euskaltel have had good giros / tour (well mainly giro for ag2r) and they are lower than greenedge???

 

[Arnout]

how have greenedge got that many points so far - when they havent signed anyone half decent to be honest??

ag2r and euskaltel have had good giros / tour (well mainly giro for ag2r) and they are lower than greenedge???

Because of the 2010 results probably.

 

[therealtimshady]

whose 2010 results??? most of the riders they have signed havent done much for years

 

[ingsve]

whose 2010 results??? most of the riders they have signed havent done much for years

Let's see. Goss is worth at least 173 points so he is probably included. Gerrans is worth around 20-25 points. Cameron Meyer is at around 60 points. Daniel Teklehaimanot is worth at least 33 points. Travis Meyer is only 4 points. Langeveld is worth perhaps 35-55 points or something like that.

So that's almost 350 points right there if all of those riders are counted.

 

[therealtimshady]

The points allocation must be bizarre I'm not sure how anton and Sanchez
Points are less than the greenedge team. Similar with menchov and co at geox

 

[greenedge]

I think AG2R, Katusha, Vac and maybe Astana are threatened. Euskatel are as well. Europcar would deserve a place, Kern, Voeckler and Rolland have been enterprising all season and it was a surprise even last year not getting in. GE if they continue in the transfer vein should get a WT license.

Skil would definitely deserve it if Degenkolb and Martin go.

 

[PCutter]

The points allocation must be bizarre I'm not sure how anton and Sanchez
Points are less than the greenedge team. Similar with menchov and co at geox

You score big points for winning a monument. Goss did that. You don't get so many points for stage wins or top 10 GC placings.

He probably also included other riders widely expected to sign with GE like Langveld (Omloop winner). Not many riders outside of Anton and Sanchez (yes Nieve at the Giro this year) would accumulate points for EE, ditto Geox. Gerrans, Cam Meyer etc may not bring huge swathes of points, but they all contribute.

 

[therealtimshady]

You score big points for winning a monument. Goss did that. You don't get so many points for stage wins or top 10 GC placings.

He probably also included other riders widely expected to sign with GE like Langveld (Omloop winner). Not many riders outside of Anton and Sanchez (yes Nieve at the Giro this year) would accumulate points for EE, ditto Geox. Gerrans, Cam Meyer etc may not bring huge swathes of points, but they all contribute.

In my opinion that is totally wrong as I would much rather see euskatel in the big races while i suspect greenedge could be another milram/footon

 

[Sydney21]

In my opinion that is totally wrong as I would much rather see euskatel in the big races while i suspect greenedge could be another milram/footon

Euskatel don't need to be pro tour - They are merely a hazard on the road in the classics. They do however need to ride the GT's with Sanchez, Anton, Astarloza and Nieve they can compete for a podium in all 3 GT's. And ofcourse in all the Spanish races too.

In regards to the Milram comment - They've announced 7 riders or something so far... enough said

 

[Duartista]

In my opinion that is totally wrong as I would much rather see euskatel in the big races while i suspect greenedge could be another milram/footon

Maybe they could split the licence - Green Edge do the classics and flattish stage races, Euskaltel the GTs and hilly stage races.

Euskatel don't need to be pro tour - They are merely a hazard on the road in the classics. They do however need to ride the GT's with Sanchez, Anton, Astarloza and Nieve they can compete for a podium in all 3 GT's. And ofcourse in all the Spanish races too.

The problem is they do need to be pro tour, simply in order to have a guaranteed TDF place.

 

[PCutter]

In my opinion that is totally wrong as I would much rather see euskatel in the big races while i suspect greenedge could be another milram/footon

You asked how GE could be ranked higher than EE and Geox, I just gave you why, not whether it was a good system or a bad system. And there is probably only one race (maybe two) 'bigger' than the monuments, and I have no desire to see Euskatel at any of the monuments (well, maybe Samu at LBL), I'd rather see Topsport or Skil at the monuments than Euskatel.

And, GE have (well, presumably given likely signings) a MSR winner, a PR winner, winners of a number of classics, semi-classics and stage races, multiple winners of multiple tour stage winners (Weening, O'Grady, Goss, Gerrans), and some of the best young talent going around pretty much on board, likening them to Milram/Footon is a little disingenuous

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Maybe they could split the licence - Green Edge do the classics and flattish stage races, Euskaltel the GTs and hilly stage races.

If Euskaltel gets the hilly classics too, that might work. Samu and Anton can finish high in those after all. Euskaltel just is really bad for RvV and PR. And maybe MSR. For the rest they can do better than many of the WT teams.

 

[therealtimshady]

At the moment the greenedge team doesn't have as strong a lineup as euskaltel- goss is a decent purchase. O Grady may have seen better days, while weening other than this years giro hasn't been noticed for a few years

 

[ingsve]

At the moment the greenedge team doesn't have as strong a lineup as euskaltel- goss is a decent purchase. O Grady may have seen better days, while weening other than this years giro hasn't been noticed for a few years

Well, that depends on the course doesn't it. GE has a much stronger team on the flats, ITTs and cobbles than EE so saying their team isn't as strong is missleading.

 

[therealtimshady]

I'm not having a go at greenedge I just think the points allocation system is wrong

 

[just some guy]

I'm not having a go at greenedge I just think the points allocation system is wrong

Don´t think anyone would argue that point except maybe riders and managers of riders who have a good bag of points.

 

[Sophistic]

Vac from 13th to 8th???

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You asked how GE could be ranked higher than EE and Geox, I just gave you why, not whether it was a good system or a bad system. And there is probably only one race (maybe two) 'bigger' than the monuments, and I have no desire to see Euskatel at any of the monuments (well, maybe Samu at LBL), I'd rather see Topsport or Skil at the monuments than Euskatel.

And, GE have (well, presumably given likely signings) a MSR winner, a PR winner, winners of a number of classics, semi-classics and stage races, multiple winners of multiple tour stage winners (Weening, O'Grady, Goss, Gerrans), and some of the best young talent going around pretty much on board, likening them to Milram/Footon is a little disingenuous

Didn't Samu finish 2nd at Lombardia a couple of years ago?

Frankly, apart from Goss, the GreenEdge signings to date are journeymen. Gerrans will pick up ranking points but seldom bring anything of any real interest to the table, Weening likewise, O'Grady is too old to be a real threat to rankings anymore (though he can and probably will make a superb road captain).

Frankly, all we're getting is the UCI bending over backwards to put in big money new teams and willing to push out the established teams that give the sport its character to do so. That's their prerogative, but the big money teams have enough advantages going their way already, without the deliberate marginalisation of teams that aren't big money newcomers throwing wads of cash at national pride.