Sky/Froome Talk Only (No Way Sky Are Cleans?)

[Wiggo Warrior]

Nothing to do with the graph.

Froome had not renewed his contract with Sky - because none had been offered - pre-Vuelta 2011.

Incorrect from what I recall, he had an offer on the table but for insufficient money.

 

[thehog]

Incorrect from what I recall, he had an offer on the table but for insufficient money.

You mean they were offering him what he was worth based on results and ability?

 

[thehog]

You mean they were offering him what he was worth based on results and ability?

Nothing like almost winning the Vuelta to get yourself a payrise!

Now how did he do that!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Nothing like almost winning the Vuelta to get yourself a payrise!

Now how did he do that!

Marginal games.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Nothing to do with the graph.

Froome had not renewed his contract with Sky - because none had been offered - pre-Vuelta 2011.

Bingo.

'Hugely talented' free agents, like Froome, will be contracted in juli, not before/after the Vuelta. Perhaps Vaughters was interested when he heard from Julich Froome had nice numbers, he could always use a young domestique for Hesjedal.

 

[airstream]

Bingo.

'Hugely talented' free agents, like Froome, will be contracted in juli, not before/after the Vuelta. Perhaps Vaughters was interested when he heard from Julich Froome had nice numbers, he could always use a young domestique for Hesjedal.

You reason as though if talent wasn't showed before 21-22 years of age, one is desperate.

 

[Pentacycle]

Bingo.

'Hugely talented' free agents, like Froome, will be contracted in juli, not before/after the Vuelta. Perhaps Vaughters was interested when he heard from Julich Froome had nice numbers, he could always use a young domestique for Hesjedal.

If that's true, why didn't they tell him in July they were definitely releasing him at the end of the year? Because JV could've signed him on a low contract, and have his breakthrough performance there. Sky didn't want to let him go just yet though, they wanted to see how he did in the Vuelta, knowing he went very well on training(possibly taking PED's, can't rule it out) compared to earlier that year. It's very likely they knew he could finally start to perform.

The other strange thing is Sky immediately offered him a 5-year contract, but isn't it unlogical to do that when a rider isn't at all talented? According to some Clinicians Froome was destined to be a sub-par domestique, 'cause Brilsford told so. But on the contrary, his performance didn't seem to surprise anyone at Sky, it was all like 'he finally got everything right, we knew he had it in him' instead of being totally shocked.

 

[airstream]

And while you point out the surprise packages of 2007 being Contador and Schleck, it's worth noting that both were younger in 2007 than Froome was in 2011, and both had shown more promise more recently. Contador was top 5 of Castilla y León back in 2003, and in 2005 he won the Setmana Catalana, podiumed País Vasco and top 5ed Romandie, swapping the Romandie and País Vasco results the following year. His wins in Paris-Nice and the Tour therefore don't seem quite so out of the ordinary in context, step up though they were.

It is quite comparable I think. Contador has minimal GT experience in 2007. That Tour was his second 3-week race in his life and he won unofficially the most dopage Tour ever. If we look into account only their results in GT's there is an even bigger difference between 1nd and 30th in the Tour (Contador) and 36th in the Giro & 2nd in the Vuelta. I'll never forget one Contador's cue after Albi TT. He said he hadn't had any doubt he would gain a lot over Evans in the Pyrenees... I don't know what guarantees a rider should have to say so, but OK...

Andy was more out of nowhere, but he had some reasonable results over 2005-6 as a youngster.

We possibly neglect human factor a bit IMO. Andy Schleck is a guy whose life would be ok without cycling too. All cycling achievements is like 1 huge bonus. We can only guess how challenging was career of the guy who came from Keniya and rode for pro-conti team. Froome's way to WT team was very thorny. To break into elite from Spain and Keniya is a big difference. Perhaps I consider Kiri not less talented than any spanish rider, but for obvious reasons he'll always be only a helper...

 

[Netserk]

It is quite comparable I think. Contador has minimal GT experience in 2007. That Tour was his second 3-week race in his life and he won unofficially the most dopage Tour ever. If we look into account only their results in GT's there is an even bigger difference between 1nd and 30th in the Tour (Contador) and 36th in the Giro & 2nd in the Vuelta. I'll never forget one Contador's cue after Albi TT. He said he hadn't had any doubt he would gain a lot over Evans in the Pyrenees... I don't know what guarantees a rider should have to say so, but OK...

We possibly neglect human factor a bit IMO. Andy Schleck is a guy whose life would be ok without cycling too. All cycling achievements is like 1 huge bonus. We can only guess how challenging was career of the guy who came from Keniya and rode for pro-conti team. Froome's way to WT team was very thorny. To break into elite from Spain and Keniya is a big difference. Perhaps I consider Kiri not less talented than any spanish rider, but for obvious reasons he'll always be only a helper...

If Contador had ridden the Vuelta in '06, he'd have top-10 or top-5. (at least that's what I expected, if he had had a protected role, however unlikely that was in his team.).

Contador was a huge talent. No doubt he would be a great stage racer.

 

[thehog]

Marginal games.

Maximum salary gains.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

If that's true, why didn't they tell him in July they were definitely releasing him at the end of the year? Because JV could've signed him on a low contract, and have his breakthrough performance there. Sky didn't want to let him go just yet though, they wanted to see how he did in the Vuelta, knowing he went very well on training(possibly taking PED's, can't rule it out) compared to earlier that year. It's very likely they knew he could finally start to perform.

Well:
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,21205_6930307,00.html

''Chris Froome will look to continue his strong start to the season as Team Sky tackle the Tour of California for the first time on Sunday.

Froome is the team’s general classification hope in the Sunshine State for a race that is rapidly growing in stature with each passing edition, routinely tempting the world’s best out of their early-season comfort zone.''

That Tour of Cali didnt go that well for Froome:

21-05-2011
Mount Baldy
1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack 3:33:01
2 Christopher Horner (USA) Team RadioShack
3 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:43
4 Thomas Danielson (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:01:01
5 Steve Morabito (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0:01:21
6 Alexander Efimkin (Rus) Team Type 1 - Sanofi Aventis
7 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad 0:01:29
8 Damiano Caruso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:01:39
9 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
10 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo
-
-
-
-
-
-
91 Andrew Pinfold (Can) UnitedHealthcare Pro Cycling 0:32:21
118 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling [same time]

He then goes to the Tour of Luxembourg;
71 Christopher FROOME GBR SKY 26 +14:37

Not sure how one could loose so much time.

Followed by the Tour de Suisse:
47 Chris Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling 0:42:30
http://www.teamsky.com/race-hub/0,27714,21502,00.html

If that is you GT guy for the future I would also wait a second before giving him a payraise.

Then we have this interview:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8...-the-front-group-quite-often-this-season.aspx

Saturday, June 25, 2011
Chris Froome Interview: “I've been able to climb in the front group quite often this season”
by Xylon van Eyck at 5:07 PM EST

Categories: Pro Cycling, Interviews

Chris Froome (Team Sky) has racked up steady results all season, including fourteenth overall in the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon and fifteenth in the Tour de Romandie. He has also displayed his time-trial abilities by finishing tenth in the Vuelta a Castilla y Leon TT in April and ninth in the final TT of the recent Tour de Suisse. Furthermore, he impressed on stage seven of the Suisse race when he showed his aggressive riding style by attacking the yellow jersey group, which included Damiano Cunego and eventual race winner Levi Leipheimer.

However, these performances were not enough to earn him a spot on Team Sky’s final roster for the Tour de France. The Kenyan born rider has done the French race once before in 2008 with Team Barloworld. His best result again was in the race against the clock when he finished sixteenth on the penultimate day.

Speaking to VeloNation this week, Froome said he understands the depth of the team’s squad this year, and knew it would be tough to make the final team for France. He admitted that he was tired after a lot of racing this season and would now focus on being more consistent in becoming a general classification rider, with one eye on the Vuelta a España in August.

VeloNation: This is your second year on Team Sky now…are you still happy on the team?

Chris Froome: Very. There aren't many teams out there, which are in the same league in terms of attention to detail and support.

VN: Do you have a coach, and has your training been similar to last year?

CF: Yes, Bobby Julich has been coaching me this year. It's been quite different to last year- a lot more anaerobic work which seems to be working for me.

VN: Where are you based and do you have training partners?

CF: I moved to Monaco earlier this year which has been a great move. There’s many options for training and lots of other pro riders to meet up with. Goss, Tanner, Cooke, Linus, Gerrans, Porte, to name a few.

VN: Have you been happy with your year so far?

CF: Yes, it's going well but I've been a bit unlucky with my health recently, picking up a chest infection which seems to be lingering. No regrets, though. I've had some great days and some not so great.

VN: How did you find Tour of California?

CF: California was an eye opener. I've never been over to the US before, so that was a whole new experience in itself. The tour itself is a fantastic event which I'd like to do again in the future. The change in time zones takes a bit of getting used to, though!

VN: What does your racing program look like for the rest of the year, now that you are not going to the Tour?

CF: It hasn't been confirmed yet but I'm hoping to do Brixia, San Sebastian, Poland and the Vuelta.

VN: What's your short term goals for your career?

CF: I want to work on consistency within the tours so I can start targeting the GC more. I've been able to climb in the front group quite often this season but I haven't been able to do it on consecutive days, so that's my next area of focus. It would be great if I could get on top of that before the Vuelta.

VN: You were born in Kenya, grew up in South Africa and now ride on a British license. Where do you feel at home?

CF: Good question, I'm still working on the answer to that. It always feels like home going back to Kenya but I normally spend the off season in South Africa where I can train properly and catch up with friends. Training in Kenya can be quite tricky with the local Matatoo (taxi bus) drivers and narrow roads!

VN: Finally, what is your Tour de France top 3 for this year?

CF: Contador, Schleck, Wiggins

So, key words are working on consistency: fixed that before Vuelta.

He had a cough, chest infection, the bilharzia was not yet given a name it seems.

But then we have dear old Bobby Julich:
http://www.bicycling.com/news/2012-...-froome-tour-de-frances-most-surprising-rider

Although Julich immediately saw Froome’s potential, he was puzzled by his inconsistency. But after examining the rider’s records and training journals, he discovered that Froome had suffered from the rare parasite Bilharzia.

"In the 2011 Tour of California, he was amazing one day and really bad the next. So we tested for Bilharzia again and sure enough he had it. And once he got treatment, he started progressing again." The Bilharzia has returned on occasion, but Julich and Froome can now immediately identify the symptoms.

That is interesting, Bobby Julich is also a doctor. And, really, progressing? Twice podium on a GT is not just progress, that is Ricardo Ricco.

Then we have Froome himself:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...t-of-africa-and-onto-the-vuelta-podium_192373

CF: Bilharzia – it’s a water-borne disease, which I found that I had it in December last year. It feeds on your red blood cells, for a cyclist, it was a nightmare. I must have touched some contaminated water somewhere in Africa. I probably had it for year before I found it. That just drained my immune system. I was always getting little colds and coughs, nothing serious, but it always kept me from being at 100-percent fitness.
VN: Have you been successfully treated for it?

CF: I had to re-do the treatment after the Tour de Suisse this year. Since then, I have been a lot more consistent and good in my training.

So, wich one is it? After Cali or after Suisse, make up your minds folks.

When you come to think of it, shouldnt the bloodpassport of Froome be a red flag as bilharzia works on red blood cells?

The other strange thing is Sky immediately offered him a 5-year contract, but isn't it unlogical to do that when a rider isn't at all talented? According to some Clinicians Froome was destined to be a sub-par domestique, 'cause Brilsford told so. But on the contrary, his performance didn't seem to surprise anyone at Sky, it was all like 'he finally got everything right, we knew he had it in him' instead of being totally shocked.

Ask Brentford. Or Lienders.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Good work, chapeau

(no sarcasm intended)

 

[Ripper]

That Tour of Cali didnt go that well for Froome:

21-05-2011
Mount Baldy
1 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team RadioShack 3:33:01
2 Christopher Horner (USA) Team RadioShack
3 Laurens Ten Dam (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team 0:00:43
4 Thomas Danielson (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo 0:01:01
5 Steve Morabito (Swi) BMC Racing Team 0:01:21
6 Alexander Efimkin (Rus) Team Type 1 - Sanofi Aventis
7 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad 0:01:29
8 Damiano Caruso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale 0:01:39
9 Andy Schleck (Lux) Leopard Trek
10 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo
-
-
-
-
-
-
91 Andrew Pinfold (Can) UnitedHealthcare Pro Cycling 0:32:21
118 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling [same time]

Wow ... Mr. GT winner to be was climbing with Pinner!

I coulda been a GT contenda!!!!

Sh!t

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Wow ... Mr. GT winner to be was climbing with Pinner!

I coulda been a GT contenda!!!!

Sh!t

yea, the Froome story looks more and more laughable.

Still that top 10 list from Baldy contains some serious blood and epo dopers. How much should a strong clean talent drop on such a stage?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Then we have this interview:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8...-the-front-group-quite-often-this-season.aspx
So, key words are working on consistency: fixed that before Vuelta.

He had a cough, chest infection, the bilharzia was not yet given a name it seems.

But then we have dear old Bobby Julich:
http://www.bicycling.com/news/2012-...-froome-tour-de-frances-most-surprising-rider

That is interesting, Bobby Julich is also a doctor. And, really, progressing? Twice podium on a GT is not just progress, that is Ricardo Ricco.

Then we have Froome himself:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...t-of-africa-and-onto-the-vuelta-podium_192373



So, wich one is it? After Cali or after Suisse, make up your minds folks.

More than that; Froome states in the latter interview that he found he had bilharzia in December (2010). The middle article suggests Julich suggested it and had it tested after the Tour of California. So why, on June 25 in the former interview, does Froome show no indication of what any illness may or may not be beyond a chest infection and a cough?

I believe that Froome had bilharzia and it has affected his career between some point in 2009 and some point in 2011. But the stories aren't quite matching up.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

More than that; Froome states in the latter interview that he found he had bilharzia in December (2010). The middle article suggests Julich suggested it and had it tested after the Tour of California. So why, on June 25 in the former interview, does Froome show no indication of what any illness may or may not be beyond a chest infection and a cough?

I believe that Froome had bilharzia and it has affected his career between some point in 2009 and some point in 2011. But the stories aren't quite matching up.

Yep. The bold part is the problem. First they say he got it in 2010, november.
Then December.
Then been affected for a year.
Then for three years.

I tend to smell the coffee when stories are not consistent.

And there is this matter of the bloodpassport.
And there is this matter of bilharzia being quite a killing disease.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

With the characteristics of Schistosomiasis I can believe if they don't know when he got it, but then why not just go with "it could have been any time in the last X"? I'm more concerned with the "I've just had a cough/chest infection" line at a time when according to all sources dating AFTER the transformation, he would already have known what it was and have had it treated (some six months earlier, according to himself in the latter source you quote).

 

[infeXio]

Depressing performance once again, just rides everyone off his wheel without even standing up. Fun fun

 

[Parrulo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQd1ffDsJsc

The sound of froome going for it

 

[taiwan]

What are the chances Froome has a TUE for EPO? Is that a) possible, b) too obvious?

 

[Ripper]

Walk away people, there is nothing to see here.

Finally has his condition treated and now does not waste energy at the wrong times.

Marginal gains.

Self belief.

Team support.

Move along now .... I'll let myself out.

 

[Ferminal]

Kiserlovski finally beats Porte!

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQd1ffDsJsc

The sound of froome going for it

And for anybody thinking they can beat Chris Froome in the Tour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09s-c2JVI40

 

[taiwan]

Wonder if the Dawg needs any TUEs for his treatment.

 

[armchairclimber]

OK, I have no idea whether or not Froome is doping but some of the arguments that he IS make little sense at all.

So, he was a talentless rider...a no talent...useless...not even fit to be a domestique...even Brailsford thought he was crap etc etc.

Yet, he has just ridden the peleton off his wheel in appalling conditions this afternoon and more or less sealed victory on a race that he could probably have won by coasting in and relying on the TT.

Now, I understand that, prior to the Vuelta 2011 he had not posted any results anywhere near this. So, IF he is TALENTLESS...which seems to be the default position of his clinic detractors, I'm supposed to believe that this remarkable transition from tail-ender to GT contender has been brought about by the use of PEDs.

REALLY? I shall have to pop to Superdrug to see if I can get me some. Seriously, it is being suggested in here that you can take an absolutely woeful climber, who can scarcely stay on his bike...and give him some magic potion that turns him into Marco Pantani.

OK, I'm Brailsford...I think Froome is the worst rider on the squad and am thinking of dropping him. I have this amazing drug up my sleeve though, which Mr Leinders has supplied...it turns ugly ducklings into swans. So I dose Froomey up and Shazzaaaam....Froomedawg is born. Why bother though. Why not go and get the best young rider I can find and give it to him instead? Why waste it on a no-hoper.

Or is that it. It's a superdrug that only works on crap cyclists. It can turn any old knacker into a GC contender.

But hang on...if that's the case, why bother signing talent at all...just pick up everyone else's cast off dregs...grab a few decent club cyclists and not bother paying all these massive salaries. After all, we have a potion that turn them into world beaters.

It makes no (insert Kimmage profanity here) sense at all.

What makes more sense is that he actually IS talented. That he is tough. That he is determined and mentally strong. That, even though he make look ungainly (it never harmed Paula Radcliffe), he is actually pretty effin good on a bike.

So, perhaps we have to look a little bit harder at what has brought about this huge improvement. What was it that was holding him back? Perhaps he is riding at his true level now. He may be doping...I dunno, but his improvement can not solely be put down to some chemical formula. To suggest that he is talentless and that his form is all down to Superdrug is just fantasy.

So, the detractors who have something about them...perhaps Hitch...try and explain to me, is he talentless? Is the phenomenal career trajectory just down to drugs? Do you really believe that? I just don't see it.