Sky's classics problems

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Ryo Hazuki said:
exactly this, ebh is a lost cause anyway for classics and thomas is dropping weight to do gt's right? stannard isn't a super talent
Thomas definitely lost weight over the winter and looked extremely lean at TDU. In terms of grand tours he wants to perform a similar role to the one that Rogers did in the Tour last year but surely the classics has been his main focus this year.

I agree on Stannard. A very good worker on the flat and perhaps in terrible conditions he can go very well in the classics, but that's about it.
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
no, because cancellara doesn't sign for money. I think that;'s been clear for a long time with riis. he only left there to join his then friends the schlecks and andersen. I'm sure next year he will sign for a swiss team. he only cares for the classics anyway so he doesn't need a wt team either
Someone like him can pretty much choose the team he wants to join and still get paid extremely well anyway but lets not pretend that money isn't a factor. Sky at least has Arvesen, who Cancellara obviously knows well, but I'm not sure how well he gets on with Sky's riders.
 
Froome19 said:
Then again unfortunately kind of skews the reliability of all Smith says. I anyways wouldn't trust anyone at Eurosport when it comes to Sky.. whatever they say.
Well, that may be the case but it wasn't as if he was kissing Sky's backside - he was giving them a good slagging.

Can the pundits win? Slag Sky and anything pro Sky cancels it out. Praise Sky and they are Murdoch's shills.

On JTL's ability, prior to 2013, I had only really seen him on tv in minor races, World Champs apart (where he more than held his own). Brian Smith has a far greater knowledge of what he can do, having worked with him. The lad is a pretty decent puncheur. Purito on form is the best, but I think it's too early to disregard JTL at this point. Maybe it was hyperbole from BS. Time will tell.
 
Oct 15, 2012
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JRanton said:
He's been a VIP at Paris-Roubaix for the last few years I believe (certainly 2010, 2011 and 2012 anyway). If he has no interest why is he being flown in by helicopter to the race and following the race in a VIP/Team Sky car?
Benefit of paying the piper's tune. F1 Pit lanes are filled with rich people who don't give a toss about F1; Premiership football VIP boxes are packed with people who could give a stuff about football. It's standard sponsor practice.

Murdoch's family have revolutionised several sports in terms of TV coverage; there's limited evidence they care that much about any of them.

In addition, how many 'good news' stories does NewsCorp have? James M is frankly lucky he's not in chokie after the phone hacking debacle. Of course he's prefer to be seen with Sky's single 'good' brand...
 
Oct 15, 2012
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JRanton said:
People often forget how good Cancellara and Boonen are. Not just the best of their generation but two of the greatest of all time. And then there's Peter Sagan, a phenomenon. I mean as much as I quite like Thomas and Stannard as riders there are limits to what even Kerrison/Sky can manage!
Sky like Wiggins. And Wiggins clones. and to be fair they've 'lucked' into Froome. But basically they love Big Diesels. and Stannard is a m***** f***** cold weather Diesel. If there was a classic along the route of the Transiberian express in March, he'd never be beaten in it.

Geraint is less of a crap weather specialist, and he doesn't have, to my mind anyway, Stannards courage...but he's also a very effective diesel. What Sky don't have, the hole JTL was hoped to fill I think, was that short sharp climb monster. You know, a super strong, almost time trialist, with a taste for sharp hills.

Actually, a bit like Froome, come to think of it.

Of course, none of that would help on the cobbles, that's a specialism of its own.

I can think of several towns in ireland with nice stretches of cobble they might consider for a team camp ;-)
 
martinvickers said:
Benefit of paying the piper's tune. F1 Pit lanes are filled with rich people who don't give a toss about F1; Premiership football VIP boxes are packed with people who could give a stuff about football. It's standard sponsor practice.

Murdoch's family have revolutionised several sports in terms of TV coverage; there's limited evidence they care that much about any of them.

In addition, how many 'good news' stories does NewsCorp have? James M is frankly lucky he's not in chokie after the phone hacking debacle. Of course he's prefer to be seen with Sky's single 'good' brand...
Be honest, you don't actually know if James Murdoch likes cycling do you? And I'm not claiming I do either but the fact he's turned up to Paris-Roubaix year after year suggests he does at least have some interest. It's not exactly the same as mixing with many other fellow millionaires at an F1 race..
 
martinvickers said:
Sky like Wiggins. And Wiggins clones. and to be fair they've 'lucked' into Froome. But basically they love Big Diesels. and Stannard is a m***** f***** cold weather Diesel. If there was a classic along the route of the Transiberian express in March, he'd never be beaten in it.

Geraint is less of a crap weather specialist, and he doesn't have, to my mind anyway, Stannards courage...but he's also a very effective diesel. What Sky don't have, the hole JTL was hoped to fill I think, was that short sharp climb monster. You know, a super strong, almost time trialist, with a taste for sharp hills.

Actually, a bit like Froome, come to think of it.

Of course, none of that would help on the cobbles, that's a specialism of its own.

I can think of several towns in ireland with nice stretches of cobble they might consider for a team camp ;-)
Well they don't have a British short climb expert but certainly Henao is very good at them and after his results in Amstel and Fleche he pretty much deserves to be called Sky's best spring classics rider...

Like you say, Thomas will no doubt generate some very good numbers, but if you aren't comfortable on the cobbles, which he isn't, then that means nothing in those races. Same with EBH.
 
Oct 15, 2012
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JRanton said:
]Be honest, you don't actually know if James Murdoch likes cycling do you[/B]? And I'm not claiming I do either but the fact he's turned up to Paris-Roubaix year after year suggests he does at least have some interest. It's not exactly the same as mixing with many other fellow millionaires at an F1 race..
Oh, I'm happy to be completely honest, it's merely a hunch, never suggested anything else. I'm just not buying Jimmy as a secret bike fetishist - outside dedicated fans Parry Ruby is not well known in these islands - and Ireland has a significantly stronger 'classics' history than GB
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Martin I think you have picked up an appetite for unfounded speculation from too much hanging around in the Clinic:p

Murdoch Jnr is so much of a cycling fan that Sky's PR team have to put effort in suggesting his judgement wasn't coloured...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jul/23/james-murdoch-sky-tour-de-france?newsfeed=true

JTL and Froome alike? In the way that Gilbert and A Schleck are alike eg can both win LBL but are otherwise completely different ;) ?
 
Oct 15, 2012
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Winterfold said:
Martin I think you have picked up an appetite for unfounded speculation from too much hanging around in the Clinic:p

Murdoch Jnr is so much of a cycling fan that Sky's PR team have to put effort in suggesting his judgement wasn't coloured...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jul/23/james-murdoch-sky-tour-de-france?newsfeed=true

JTL and Froome alike? In the way that Gilbert and A Schleck are alike eg can both win LBL but are otherwise completely different ;) ?
I was having a little fun with the froome suggestion... or was I?
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Well it could have been a dumb Clninc comment or poking fun at Kerrison's latest attempt at cycling alchemy - I hope something like the latter

I hope they don't ruin JTL - he has nearly quit the sport once by all accounts
 
Oct 15, 2012
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Winterfold said:
Well it could have been a dumb Clninc comment or poking fun at Kerrison's latest attempt at cycling alchemy - I hope something like the latter

I hope they don't ruin JTL - he has nearly quit the sport once by all accounts
It was more a dumb anti-clinic comment, but mostly poking a bit of fun at Sky.

Thing is, it took three years and the luck of already having Wiggo to 'work out' grand tour racing. Its unrealistic to ecpect them to 'work out' one day racing the first time they try. Neither succesz nor disaster, too too early to work out yet. They'll go away, analyse refine. Give it a few years, we'll see...
 
Mar 31, 2010
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martinvickers said:
It was more a dumb anti-clinic comment, but mostly poking a bit of fun at Sky.

Thing is, it took three years and the luck of already having Wiggo to 'work out' grand tour racing. Its unrealistic to ecpect them to 'work out' one day racing the first time they try. Neither succesz nor disaster, too too early to work out yet. They'll go away, analyse refine. Give it a few years, we'll see...
sky will never work out classics. classics isn't about racing on your power meter and heartbeat meter. classics is something you can't explain almost. for instance sky has no clue that some riders can't handle 200+ km. it truly is the magic border. not just a myth. they keep trying with ebh, because he has great results. but results don't matter when you fade after a long race. then come sthe biggest thing. in classics you need to be very agile and technical. place yourself very well. henao is superb in this, all other sky riders are not, not wiggins, not uran, not froome, not thomas, not stannard, not even ebh. flanders for instance is 90% won on placing for every climb. agr similar. that's why you see them do best in lbl because it's leats hectic and comest closest to a mountainstage
 
Jul 7, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
sky will never work out classics. classics isn't about racing on your power meter and heartbeat meter. classics is something you can't explain almost. for instance sky has no clue that some riders can't handle 200+ km. it truly is the magic border. not just a myth. they keep trying with ebh, because he has great results. but results don't matter when you fade after a long race. then come sthe biggest thing. in classics you need to be very agile and technical. place yourself very well. henao is superb in this, all other sky riders are not, not wiggins, not uran, not froome, not thomas, not stannard, not even ebh. flanders for instance is 90% won on placing for every climb. agr similar. that's why you see them do best in lbl because it's leats hectic and comest closest to a mountainstage
Never is a long time
 
May 28, 2012
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Ryo Hazuki said:
sky will never work out classics. classics isn't about racing on your power meter and heartbeat meter. classics is something you can't explain almost. for instance sky has no clue that some riders can't handle 200+ km. it truly is the magic border. not just a myth. they keep trying with ebh, because he has great results. but results don't matter when you fade after a long race. then come sthe biggest thing. in classics you need to be very agile and technical. place yourself very well. henao is superb in this, all other sky riders are not, not wiggins, not uran, not froome, not thomas, not stannard, not even ebh. flanders for instance is 90% won on placing for every climb. agr similar. that's why you see them do best in lbl because it's leats hectic and comest closest to a mountainstage
EBH is usually well placed, on the Taaienberg in both E3 this year(with Hayman) and Omloop 2012(with Flecha) for instance. He gets dropped hard on both occasions though, losing 40 length to Boonen during the ascent. He's one of the few riders who ****s up a good position like that.

But the thing I especially don't like are the lame excuses, but we've heard them every single year since 2010; and people still buy them. Can't we all agree he's just not the rider everyone thought he was going to be? Riders like Sagan and Kwiatkowski are the real talents, EBH's just a domestique.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Pentacycle said:
EBH is usually well placed, on the Taaienberg in both E3 this year(with Hayman) and Omloop 2012(with Flecha) for instance. He gets dropped hard on both occasions though, losing 40 length to Boonen during the ascent. He's one of the few riders who ****s up a good position like that.

But the thing I especially don't like are the lame excuses, but we've heard them every single year since 2010; and people still buy them. Can't we all agree he's just not the rider everyone thought he was going to be? Riders like Sagan and Kwiatkowski are the real talents, EBH's just a domestique.
true, true. again painfull in flanders this year how much he comes short, in most perfect position, however the norwegian and sky amry really hype him to no end. 4 years ago he was a big talent, now he's nowhere near that.
 
All this talk of EBH had this issue and that problem still does not change the fact that he has never been a classics contender.

Oh, he just happens to always be over trained, under trained, injured, sick, blah blah blah. That is the cumulative evidence that he is not a contender.

I wish the press would quit making it out like he was. It is similar to how Cunego was continually touted to be a GT threat long after he had ever shown he could be a GT threat.
 
argyllflyer said:
Well, that may be the case but it wasn't as if he was kissing Sky's backside - he was giving them a good slagging.

Can the pundits win? Slag Sky and anything pro Sky cancels it out. Praise Sky and they are Murdoch's shills.

On JTL's ability, prior to 2013, I had only really seen him on tv in minor races, World Champs apart (where he more than held his own). Brian Smith has a far greater knowledge of what he can do, having worked with him. The lad is a pretty decent puncheur. Purito on form is the best, but I think it's too early to disregard JTL at this point. Maybe it was hyperbole from BS. Time will tell.
I like Brian Smith: he speaks as he sees it..... I thought his most revealing comment was about Skys lack of experience at DS level, having lost Jullich & Yates, and replaced them with a coach. Experience counts, especially in Classics. The only thing is, I wasn't sure there wasn't a bit of sour grapes there: why didn't Sky appoint Smith?
 
coinneach said:
I like Brian Smith: he speaks as he sees it..... I thought his most revealing comment was about Skys lack of experience at DS level, having lost Jullich & Yates, and replaced them with a coach. Experience counts, especially in Classics. The only thing is, I wasn't sure there wasn't a bit of sour grapes there: why didn't Sky appoint Smith?
Julich wasn't a DS. You mean De Jongh. Sky has Knaven and Arvesen for the classics and they should know what they're doing. I'd be more concerned about the Ljungqvist/Dan Hunt combo for the Giro.

Smith isn't a DS either is he? He's assistant team manager/principle at the merged NetApp-Endura team.
 
coinneach said:
I like Brian Smith: he speaks as he sees it..... I thought his most revealing comment was about Skys lack of experience at DS level, having lost Jullich & Yates, and replaced them with a coach. Experience counts, especially in Classics. The only thing is, I wasn't sure there wasn't a bit of sour grapes there: why didn't Sky appoint Smith?
Couldn't get out of his contract with Netapp-Endura.
 
Mar 7, 2012
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Spring classics over - no wins for sky, the team that "dominate" cycling according to the British Press. Guess money can buy you a big bus but not a monument. Thees no problem - they don't know what they are doing, they can't sit on the front and control the more chaotic racing and they haven't got anybody talented enough (JTL or Froome to win la Doyenne you are having a laugh).
 
Apr 10, 2011
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eagleofditchling said:
Spring classics over - no wins for sky, the team that "dominate" cycling according to the British Press. Guess money can buy you a big bus but not a monument. Thees no problem - they don't know what they are doing, they can't sit on the front and control the more chaotic racing and they haven't got anybody talented enough (JTL or Froome to win la Doyenne you are having a laugh).


Do I need to say more ? ( because I can considering results from Sky from past 2 years :p )

Sky is by far the best all round team in the peleton right now by far, and hence the best in the peleton.

....

Classic season wasn't great at all, they didn't have a top name in cobbles, and their only cobbled hope, was having a mare with crashes :p
 

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