So what do I do now that I don't believe?

[Moose McKnuckles]

It is absolutely amazing to me that people still believe there are top racers in this sport who are racing clean. Absolutely amazing.

The "my favorite racers are clean" mentality is just a byproduct of denial.

 

[scribe]

Perusing the clinic, I appear to be the only fan of Liggett's commentating. Is there a poll somewhere in the forums on this specificity? searching now
OTOH I am easily persuaded by anyone speaking in a plummy Oxbridge accent

What? I love the ligget/sherwin tandem. All these guys that complain will all tune in to versus this July. They still put on a great broadcast.

 

[Polish]

Perusing the clinic, I appear to be the only fan of Liggett's commentating. Is there a poll somewhere in the forums on this specificity? searching now
OTOH I am easily persuaded by anyone speaking in a plummy Oxbridge accent

Uncle Phil is AWESOME.
He has MANY fans, and I am one too.

Of course he was much more lucid when he was gushing over Greg Lemond 20 years ago -
but I like the senile version even more

"You are old, Mr Liggett," the young man said,
"And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head—
Do you think, at your age, it is right?"

"In my youth," Mr Liggett replied to his fan,
"I feared it might injure the brain;
But now that I'm perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFaaXUyfPYU

seriously, 30 plus years of TdF announcing...World Class Act!

 

[HL2037]

I DO BELIEVE in Evans, Sastre and even have a certain confidence in Vino.

Come on, look at Evans and tell me he never did HGH - It's literally written in his face...

 

[turtlesoup]

Ya i drank alot of the koolaide for a long time even while reading the clinic, It just sucks now looking at every rider that does well and thinking ah its just the EPO doing it.

 

[centri]

Hey Saddlesaw,

Like you I'm a former lurker who has just signed up.

A great question that you ask here. I felt the same way as you the other day after seeing how young 37-yr old Garzelli looks. I immediately thought hgh: no wrinkles, eyes look fresh and rested...

So we question every victory. Great.

Its a tough question to answer; I still get excited watching attacks but these days find that I no longer watch cycling all that much. Sadly, the doping trainwreck seems to get more headlines and anticipation then some of the races...

 

[scribe]

Come on, look at Evans and tell me he never did HGH - It's literally written in his face...

No no no! It was precious that turned his looks.

 

[eljimberino]

So HGH makes Garzelli look 18 and Evans 80?

 

[HL2037]

Depends of dosage and duration of treatment and individual factors as well.

 

[SpartacusRox]

I thought LG raced really well. Loving it that Basso is back and winning, always admired his riding style, so smooth on the bike. Hope he holds the form for the TdF and they make him leader and not RK.

 

[forty four]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

So another great Giro stage but I'm so frustrated by the certainty that the Liquigas performances are bullshyte that I'm telling myself that the grimaces are for the cameras.....

Why can't we have all riders that have been popped at some time in their career wear a large black X on their jersey so we can concentrate on those who haven't yet been caught? Wouldn't that seem fair?

*Sigh* that's a little jaded....Great ride Arroyo and Cadel considering Vino was riding for 4th from a long way out.... I can't bring myself to say the same for Basso and Nibali

Anyone else feeling the same with that group?

doped riders go faster it does not mean its easy or the grimaces are fake thats silly. there is still a pain threshold and its still great sport. there will always be a battle between new drugs and new controls and cheating pro athletes grow up you live in a naive world.

 

[bc_hills]

accept that i can watch a sport full of frauds? I don't think so.

I agree 100% on this one. Anyone that claims they are clean when they're not is a schmuck. A race full of dopers is not dope, it's $hit. If it got to the point where I thought there was no chance anyone was clean, I wouldn't follow the sport, full stop.

Watching a sport, any sport, includes the notion of emulation. We are enthralled by the performances of others and it inspires us in our own lives. If those performances are no longer inspiring, then what's the point of watching? I don't think watching doped riders is inspiring because the results are meaningless as the frame of reference is all wrong. What can a non-doped rider on a bike do up the Zoncolan? The answer to that is meaningful to me even though I'll never be on the high end of that scale myself. If a rider is on the dope, then who cares? It's like moto pacing, "just a little bit", or doing a time trial with a tail wind. Great results, but really, there's no personal satisfaction there (unless you're ok with a boast of a TT result while failing to mention a tailwind, kinda like taking a win while failing to mention being hopped up on the $hit).

I'd support a demonstrably clean team (in other words, i'd lean towards buying the gear that sponsors them), even if they weren't winning. At least I could relate to their results.

I don't blame riders for doping. I think they are caught up on something much larger than their own individual choices. I can't help but think that the clean up has to come top down.

peace

 

[Saddlesaw]

doped riders go faster it does not mean its easy or the grimaces are fake thats silly. there is still a pain threshold and its still great sport. there will always be a battle between new drugs and new controls and cheating pro athletes grow up you live in a naive world.

Nothing naive about lamenting the loss of respect you once had for certain achievements or feats of incredible endurance. I might be a new poster but I too have been watching and reading about this aspect of our sport for years. My post was actually about my loss of faith.....that subsequently leads to a loss of appreciation.

Given your comments indicate that you give tacit approval to doping "there is still a pain threshold and it's still great sport" I don't hold much hope of it ever changing....indeed that would be naive wouldn't it.......

 

[centri]

So HGH makes Garzelli look 18 and Evans 80?

Well, I'm not sure what that post about Evans was on about. But I did find this comment interesting:

Stefano Garzelli has been a factor many days of this Giro, and struck me as looking much younger than a guy who’s been around so long should.

Found here:
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8294&status=True&catname=Latest News

Pretty much what I had thought seeing him on the podium. I guess until hgh is detectable we'll never know

Given your comments indicate that you give tacit approval to doping "there is still a pain threshold and it's still great sport" I don't hold much hope of it ever changing....indeed that would be naive wouldn't it.......

Sums up how I feel too, Saddlesaw...

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Well, I'm not sure what that post about Evans was on about. But I did find this comment interesting:



Found here:
http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8294&status=True&catname=Latest News

Pretty much what I had thought seeing him on the podium. I guess until hgh is detectable we'll never know



Sums up how I feel too, Saddlesaw...

Gentlemen, in my 30's I had an Italian girlfriend, which was curious because I speak not a word of the language.

We met in Germany at a conference. She spoke brilliant English and we discussed Darfur, politics, wine and so forth.

Was a nice relationship, one that makes me smile. She was older than me but I could not really tell by how much, and far to much the gentleman to ask. One day, we were discussing distant and far away places, and debated a claim that she'd been to been to Chile. She pulled her passport and there was her stamp for Santiago, Chile. Also was her birthdate, 7 Oct, 1958, which at the time made her 46. No way she was a day older than 32. No way. And certainly not on hGH.

I must say, and without a hint of racism or such, there is a thing with some Italians, they simply age quite well. They eat well, exercise, moderate their sun exposure and some can fool even a trained eye (for women) like myself .

Garzelli could be just the type of DNA that belies his chronological age.